Best English Midfielder since Gazza

[Belfast Boy]

I'm happy to be proved wrong - but what are Lampard's qualities?

 

 

119 Premier League goals(easily highest midfielder)

74 assists(2nd in all time Premier League records)

 

 

Who is top of the assists? (since football was invented in 92)

[Guest Roger Kint]

I'm happy to be proved wrong - but what are Lampard's qualities?

 

 

119 Premier League goals(easily highest midfielder)

74 assists(2nd in all time Premier League records)

 

 

Who is top of the assists? (since football was invented in 92)

 

Giggs with 80 odd

[Guest firetotheworks]

Uh oh, here come the stats.

[johnnypd]

I would've said 2 years ago that lampard is similar to david platt - scored a load of goals but didnt have as much to his game as other players. actually platt's scoring for villa and england was better than lampard's. however he has improved in that time and is a more complete footballer now. not as much of a natural talent as the others listed, but crazily effective player.

 

Beckham was fantastic at his peak, which can be forgotten due to what's came after. I thought, when he was younger, that he was man utd's most dangerous player in europe, better than giggs, scholes etc. in the season leading up to the 2002 world cup he was sensational, scoring 16 goals by the beginning of april, and creating god knows how many assists, before getting injured. he never ever played as well as that again for the rest of his career. at times for madrid he was poor, and was never suited to the centre.

 

Scholes is the most gifted, and could do the things that no other english player could. sublime touch, wonderful passing, consistently high scorer, even in a 4-4-2 and at a time when there wasn't as many attacking midfielders around. however i don't think he was the type to completely control a match like some others, perhaps due to being smaller. that's not to downplay his talent, though, which is comparable to someone like Iniesta, though he's never had Scholes' end product.

 

Gerrard is the opposite of scholes in some ways. not that good technically, but possesses perfect physical attributes. also scores a ridiculous amount. while he doesnt, by his high standards, show up in every game of the season, he is the definition of a big game player (at least for his club) and someone who can completely dominate a match and win it for his side almost single handidly. bit like kaka really, though better on his day because of greater physical and mental strength. hasn't looked too great this season.

[Guest firetotheworks]

I would've said 2 years ago that lampard is similar to david platt - scored a load of goals but didnt have as much to his game as other players. actually platt's scoring for villa and england was better than lampard's. however he has improved in that time and is a more complete footballer now. not as much of a natural talent as the others listed, but crazily effective player.

 

Beckham was fantastic at his peak, which can be forgotten due to what's came after. I thought, when he was younger, that he was man utd's most dangerous player in europe, better than giggs, scholes etc. in the season leading up to the 2002 world cup he was sensational, scoring 16 goals by the beginning of april, and creating god knows how many assists, before getting injured. he never ever played as well as that again for the rest of his career. at times for madrid he was poor, and was never suited to the centre.

 

Scholes is the most gifted, and could do the things that no other english player could. sublime touch, wonderful passing, consistently high scorer, even in a 4-4-2 and at a time when there wasn't as many attacking midfielders around. however i don't think he was the type to completely control a match like some others, perhaps due to being smaller. that's not to downplay his talent, though, which is comparable to someone like Iniesta, though he's never had Scholes' end product.

 

Gerrard is the opposite of scholes in some ways. not that good technically, but possesses perfect physical attributes. also scores a ridiculous amount. while he doesnt, by his high standards, show up in every game of the season, he is the definition of a big game player (at least for his club) and someone who can completely dominate a match and win it for his side almost single handidly. bit like kaka really, though better on his day because of greater physical and mental strength. hasn't looked too great this season.

 

I can see what you're saying, but you're not saying Gerrard is better than Kaka are you?

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

Wonder what Lampard's assist/goal scoring stats would look like if you took away all the goals and assists from freekicks, corners and pens. Sure its a great skill to have in, to be able to score from freekicks (pens a little less so), but it does inflate stats a bit.

 

Lampard does have a great pass, but I always get the impression he's a great player in a great squad, while he'd be an average player in any other set up. Where as Scholes would be Scholes for any other team, as would Joe Cole.

[Guest Roger Kint]

Wonder what Lampard's assist/goal scoring stats would look like if you took away all the goals and assists from freekicks, corners and pens. Sure its a great skill to have in, to be able to score from freekicks (pens a little less so), but it does inflate stats a bit.

 

Lampard does have a great pass, but I always get the impression he's a great player in a great squad, while he'd be an average player in any other set up. Where as Scholes would be Scholes for any other team, as would Joe Cole.

 

Just so we know are we taking away Gerrards too, he is pretty central to everything Liverpool do. That Beckham bloke, world renowned as he is for open play goals may bit hit a bit too

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

Wonder what Lampard's assist/goal scoring stats would look like if you took away all the goals and assists from freekicks, corners and pens. Sure its a great skill to have in, to be able to score from freekicks (pens a little less so), but it does inflate stats a bit.

 

Lampard does have a great pass, but I always get the impression he's a great player in a great squad, while he'd be an average player in any other set up. Where as Scholes would be Scholes for any other team, as would Joe Cole.

 

Just so we know are we taking away Gerrards too, he is pretty central to everything Liverpool do. That Beckham bloke, world renowned as he is for open play goals may bit hit a bit too

 

I don't rate Gerrard, even though obviously he is a good player, my dislike of him hampers my ability to rate him Dives, moans, is a scouse... gets away with too much shit. However, Gerrard would probably be able to spur on any team he's put into, as did Gazza, but I don't think Lampard has that ability.

[Guest Roger Kint]

Maybe, maybe not. Without putting Lampard into a hugely reliant team we probably wont know. Agree with what you say about Gerrard though.

[Shearergol]

Wonder what Lampard's assist/goal scoring stats would look like if you took away all the goals and assists from freekicks, corners and pens. Sure its a great skill to have in, to be able to score from freekicks (pens a little less so), but it does inflate stats a bit.

 

Lampard does have a great pass, but I always get the impression he's a great player in a great squad, while he'd be an average player in any other set up. Where as Scholes would be Scholes for any other team, as would Joe Cole.

 

I've always wondered why people try to take things away from stats. "I wonder how many goals Shearer would have scored if you don't count the ones which looked easy?"

 

You could take Lampard's freekicks away, but then do the same for Beckham, Scoles and Gerrard. In fact, take them out of football and say the goals don't actually count unless you beat 5 players first.

[johnnypd]

I would've said 2 years ago that lampard is similar to david platt - scored a load of goals but didnt have as much to his game as other players. actually platt's scoring for villa and england was better than lampard's. however he has improved in that time and is a more complete footballer now. not as much of a natural talent as the others listed, but crazily effective player.

 

Beckham was fantastic at his peak, which can be forgotten due to what's came after. I thought, when he was younger, that he was man utd's most dangerous player in europe, better than giggs, scholes etc. in the season leading up to the 2002 world cup he was sensational, scoring 16 goals by the beginning of april, and creating god knows how many assists, before getting injured. he never ever played as well as that again for the rest of his career. at times for madrid he was poor, and was never suited to the centre.

 

Scholes is the most gifted, and could do the things that no other english player could. sublime touch, wonderful passing, consistently high scorer, even in a 4-4-2 and at a time when there wasn't as many attacking midfielders around. however i don't think he was the type to completely control a match like some others, perhaps due to being smaller. that's not to downplay his talent, though, which is comparable to someone like Iniesta, though he's never had Scholes' end product.

 

Gerrard is the opposite of scholes in some ways. not that good technically, but possesses perfect physical attributes. also scores a ridiculous amount. while he doesnt, by his high standards, show up in every game of the season, he is the definition of a big game player (at least for his club) and someone who can completely dominate a match and win it for his side almost single handidly. bit like kaka really, though better on his day because of greater physical and mental strength. hasn't looked too great this season.

 

I can see what you're saying, but you're not saying Gerrard is better than Kaka are you?

 

not at the minute, but he was a couple of years ago.

[Stu]

[Ronaldo]

Kaka is the most overrated player on the planet.

[Tooj]

Kaka is the most overrated player on the planet.

 

He's not as good as he was due to his injuries but he's still got a touch of class.

[David28]

Why does nobody mention Nicky Butt? Nobody of the list above has managed to put in some overhead kicks without any need in the middle of the park.

 

No, seriously I think Lampard. But I don't like him and still think I should have voted for Beckham but he isn't (or wasn't) overall as good as Lampard.

[Ronaldo]

Kaka is the most overrated player on the planet.

 

He's not as good as he was due to his injuries but he's still got a touch of class.

 

Maybe so, but the concensus seems to be that he's up there with Ronaldo and Messi, he's never been as good as those two and certainly isn't now.

[Hughesy]

Absolute rubbish that Kaka is overrated.

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

Wonder what Lampard's assist/goal scoring stats would look like if you took away all the goals and assists from freekicks, corners and pens. Sure its a great skill to have in, to be able to score from freekicks (pens a little less so), but it does inflate stats a bit.

 

Lampard does have a great pass, but I always get the impression he's a great player in a great squad, while he'd be an average player in any other set up. Where as Scholes would be Scholes for any other team, as would Joe Cole.

 

I've always wondered why people try to take things away from stats. "I wonder how many goals Shearer would have scored if you don't count the ones which looked easy?"

 

You could take Lampard's freekicks away, but then do the same for Beckham, Scoles and Gerrard. In fact, take them out of football and say the goals don't actually count unless you beat 5 players first.

 

Well, a bit off from what I was getting at, but I see your point.

[Belfast Boy]

I'm happy to be proved wrong - but what are Lampard's qualities?

 

 

119 Premier League goals(easily highest midfielder)

74 assists(2nd in all time Premier League records)

 

 

Who is top of the assists? (since football was invented in 92)

 

Giggs with 80 odd

 

I thought it would be Giggs but I am surprised it isnt a lot more to be honest. Over 15 years or so thats only 5 or 6 per season.

[Doctor Zaius]

Apparently Scholes is the only player not to have received the hairdryer treatment from Fergie.

 

Tbf Scholes dosent seem the type of player that the hairdryer treatment would work on. Scholes seems the type of lad that would get motivated and their arse into gear with a hand round the shoulder and a quiet word rather than the hairdryer treatment.

[tmonkey]

Scholes. Quality playmaker. Comes first for me.

 

Beckham pre-ego-t*** phase was great. Awesome winger. I'd put him second. His direct, aggressive crossing was the best in Europe by far, topped off by being a quality set piece taker. As soon as he started drifting around the pitch though, trying to be some sort of playmaking Zidane slash Cruyff equivalent from deep, constantly spraying 60 yard wonder balls onto the heads of opposition defenders, he immediately turned into a liability for the top teams imo, which is why Fergie dropped him for Solskjaer before selling, and also partly why Madrid turned from the title winning Galaticos into a disjointed team who failed to win anything for years till Beckham's last season there (and even then they only won because of Capello's defensive tactics and Barca going through a phase of rebuilding).

 

Gerrard has probably had the biggest impact out of all four in any one big game, i.e. the CL final against Milan, but overall he's third in the list for me because he's been crap for England, and furthermore his touch/passing sometimes lets him down in the big games. That 15 minute spell against Milan in the final was class, but he'd be the third midfielder to play like that against that Milan side - Ji Sung Park for PSV did exactly the same, tore them apart in a CL semi-final by running directly through the middle, and our own Albert Luque, back when Deportivo turned over a 4-1 loss in the first leg by tearing Milan a new one in the second leg and winning 4-0. Beyond that, Gerrard has been great for a Liverpool team that he's often had to carry on his own, and it's easy to forget that he did this for many years prior to Torres' arrival, and he's also had a few big CL performances where he's grabbed a win or a draw for Liverpool from nothing. So I'd put him third, just ahead of Lampard.

 

Not as big a fan of Lampard as some on here. He's obviously a great midfielder overall, and his passing is better than Gerrard's, but still think he goes missing against the top teams/players, and I still can't get over him being a bit of a plodder at times. Just seems to have poor fluidity or technique when taking on awkward shots, e.g. that miss against Egypt a few days ago. He's like an extremely good Kevin Nolan almost - whilst the likes of Essien and co are bombing around the pitch, you have "Fat Lamps" plodding along, hoping to get into the penalty box unnoticed. His passing can be good, in particular the crossfield ball, but it's not creative often enough like e.g. Fabregas' is. I'd also add that Lampard has been just as disappointing for England as Gerrard has when it's come to the games against the top opponents (including some friendlies), but furthermore he hasn't had the one or two standout performances in the truly big games that Gerrard has had at club level, which is why he's last for me. I'd also say that he's had a far easier time of it at Chelsea, where he often just has to jog into the box and tuck away a moderately easy chance because he's had the likes of Makelele, Terry, Essien, Carvalho, etc etc, behind him, so he's had more freedom to just concentrate on doing the easier things than Gerrard, who has often had to be the sole driving force for Liverpool.

[johnnypd]

Scholes. Quality playmaker. Comes first for me.

 

Beckham pre-ego-t*** phase was great. Awesome winger. I'd put him second. His direct, aggressive crossing was the best in Europe by far, topped off by being a quality set piece taker. As soon as he started drifting around the pitch though, trying to be some sort of playmaking Zidane slash Cruyff equivalent from deep, constantly spraying 60 yard wonder balls onto the heads of opposition defenders, he immediately turned into a liability for the top teams imo, which is why Fergie dropped him for Solskjaer before selling, and also partly why Madrid turned from the title winning Galaticos into a disjointed team who failed to win anything for years till Beckham's last season there (and even then they only won because of Capello's defensive tactics and Barca going through a phase of rebuilding).

 

Gerrard has probably had the biggest impact out of all four in any one big game, i.e. the CL final against Milan, but overall he's third in the list for me because he's been crap for England, and furthermore his touch/passing sometimes lets him down in the big games. That 15 minute spell against Milan in the final was class, but he'd be the third midfielder to play like that against that Milan side - Ji Sung Park for PSV did exactly the same, tore them apart in a CL semi-final by running directly through the middle, and our own Albert Luque, back when Deportivo turned over a 4-1 loss in the first leg by tearing Milan a new one in the second leg and winning 4-0. Beyond that, Gerrard has been great for a Liverpool team that he's often had to carry on his own, and it's easy to forget that he did this for many years prior to Torres' arrival, and he's also had a few big CL performances where he's grabbed a win or a draw for Liverpool from nothing. So I'd put him third, just ahead of Lampard.

 

Not as big a fan of Lampard as some on here. He's obviously a great midfielder overall, and his passing is better than Gerrard's, but still think he goes missing against the top teams/players, and I still can't get over him being a bit of a plodder at times. Just seems to have poor fluidity or technique when taking on awkward shots, e.g. that miss against Egypt a few days ago. He's like an extremely good Kevin Nolan almost - whilst the likes of Essien and co are bombing around the pitch, you have "Fat Lamps" plodding along, hoping to get into the penalty box unnoticed. His passing can be good, in particular the crossfield ball, but it's not creative often enough like e.g. Fabregas' is. I'd also add that Lampard has been just as disappointing for England as Gerrard has when it's come to the games against the top opponents (including some friendlies), but furthermore he hasn't had the one or two standout performances in the truly big games that Gerrard has had at club level, which is why he's last for me. I'd also say that he's had a far easier time of it at Chelsea, where he often just has to jog into the box and tuck away a moderately easy chance because he's had the likes of Makelele, Terry, Essien, Carvalho, etc etc, behind him, so he's had more freedom to just concentrate on doing the easier things than Gerrard, who has often had to be the sole driving force for Liverpool.

 

basically agree with all of this. especially what you say about Beckham - a genuinely top drawer player in his peak, but once he began faffing around trying to play in the middle he began to decline. When he played in the middle for Madrid he always made bad passes that put his team-mates under pressure, tried things that were too ambitious, and always found it difficult to make space for himself. you could see this in the Milan-Man Utd game the other day, the exact same things replicated. He kept on playing passes to the wrong option, moving about stupidly so that a team-mate ended up getting pressured into giving the ball away. as a player he was always better sticking to his own strengths as he had no brain for the wider game.

 

i do feel lampard has improved his all round game in the past couple of years, even something as simple as getting his passes away more quickly has made an impact on how he plays. i can see him playing more effectively in a deeper role now, whereas a few years ago he would've looked uncomfortable in that position. that's been forced on him a bit with essien missing for long periods in the past couple of seasons, and playing alongside Ballack who doesn't have too much energy, and he's adapted well.

 

would like to hear your thoughts on why Scholes comes first, though.

[CaliMag]

tmonkey and johnnypd

 

I don't think it was ever Beckham's plan or desire to play in the middle. That was asked of/forced on him by England and Real Madrid. As a winger he is/was one of the best English ones ever - better as a winger than any of the other options in the middle.

 

I never thought Beckham was a good captain for England and playing a creative central role is not his strength. He also has an amazing workrate (I don't know how people could question this).

[Tooj]

tmonkey and johnnypd

 

I don't think it was ever Beckham's plan or desire to play in the middle. That was asked of/forced on him by England and Real Madrid. As a winger he is/was one of the best English ones ever - better as a winger than any of the other options in the middle.

 

I never thought Beckham was a good captain for England and playing a creative central role is not his strength. He also has an amazing workrate (I don't know how people could question this).

 

Beckham often said he saw himself as a central midfielder.

[CaliMag]

tmonkey and johnnypd

 

I don't think it was ever Beckham's plan or desire to play in the middle. That was asked of/forced on him by England and Real Madrid. As a winger he is/was one of the best English ones ever - better as a winger than any of the other options in the middle.

 

I never thought Beckham was a good captain for England and playing a creative central role is not his strength. He also has an amazing workrate (I don't know how people could question this).

 

Beckham often said he saw himself as a central midfielder.

Fair play then.

 

He was never the smartest. I could see hims saying this after he was asked to play there.