Liverpool and their fans

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Anyone else want to take the bet that should Liverpool win the Europa League then the winners will magically qualify for the Champions League?

 

 

Why would they be let through to the champions league when its unlikely they won't finish 4th, i doubt they would be let through just for winning the Europa league.

 

Go back to 2004 or 2005 when they won it and finished 5th. Shouldn't have qualified then either but they did

[Liam Liam Liam O]

Anyone else want to take the bet that should Liverpool win the Europa League then the winners will magically qualify for the Champions League?

 

 

Why would they be let through to the champions league when its unlikely they won't finish 4th, i doubt they would be let through just for winning the Europa league.

 

http://www.ush.net/board//viewtopic.php?f=16&t=156345

 

That sort of thing.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Seen as I spend 75% of my year in Liverpool I feel somehow sort of qualified to come in and debate this topic. First off a rant:

 

I don't see why half of you jumped down Stifler's throat for blaming the fans. It was their fault, simple as. Yes it could have been any set of fans, it was the 80s the vast majority of clubs had a large set of scummy cunt supporters, yes the Police could have dealt with it better, but the fact remains no matter who opened what gate, a large amount of fans who didn't have tickets charged into the stands and ended up killing some of their own fans through their own stupidity. End of. They talk about Hillsborough constantly because they still have someone to blame, hence why they don't talk about Heysel, because its been proven beyond all doubt that it was their fault. Living in the city its an opinion I keep to myself but its my opinion on the matter nonetheless.

 

To answer the original question, I have a few mates who support Liverpool who are fairly balanced and accept that they've been shit this year and put it down to the ownership more than anything, they understand that they're in trouble if they don't finish 4th, which I don't think they will. They have every right to moan though and around the city its about half and half. Half accept that they've been shit and have no right to success, and the other half talk utter bollocks. The worst I had was a cab driver who told me that Liverpool should be finishing 1st every year, regardless of the fact they haven't won the league for 20 years. He also had a good laugh at me being a Newcastle fan and my mate being a Forest fan, all in all he was a cunt. Most of them actually like Newcastle and our fans though. That's going from my experience anyway.

 

Really?

 

I spent 6 years of my life in Liverpool (1999 - 2005) and the majority of Liverpool fans

 

(a) were deluded

(b) held no affection for Newcastle.

 

There were more than a few occassions when I didn't feel safe walking around in a Newcastle Shirt

 

Maybe it was because we were better back then?

[QBG]

Seen as I spend 75% of my year in Liverpool I feel somehow sort of qualified to come in and debate this topic. First off a rant:

 

I don't see why half of you jumped down Stifler's throat for blaming the fans. It was their fault, simple as. Yes it could have been any set of fans, it was the 80s the vast majority of clubs had a large set of scummy c*** supporters, yes the Police could have dealt with it better, but the fact remains no matter who opened what gate, a large amount of fans who didn't have tickets charged into the stands and ended up killing some of their own fans through their own stupidity. End of. They talk about Hillsborough constantly because they still have someone to blame, hence why they don't talk about Heysel, because its been proven beyond all doubt that it was their fault. Living in the city its an opinion I keep to myself but its my opinion on the matter nonetheless.

 

To answer the original question, I have a few mates who support Liverpool who are fairly balanced and accept that they've been s*** this year and put it down to the ownership more than anything, they understand that they're in trouble if they don't finish 4th, which I don't think they will. They have every right to moan though and around the city its about half and half. Half accept that they've been s*** and have no right to success, and the other half talk utter bollocks. The worst I had was a cab driver who told me that Liverpool should be finishing 1st every year, regardless of the fact they haven't won the league for 20 years. He also had a good laugh at me being a Newcastle fan and my mate being a Forest fan, all in all he was a c***. Most of them actually like Newcastle and our fans though. That's going from my experience anyway.

 

Really?

 

I spent 6 years of my life in Liverpool (1999 - 2005) and the majority of Liverpool fans

 

(a) were deluded

(b) held no affection for Newcastle.

 

There were more than a few occassions when I didn't feel safe walking around in a Newcastle Shirt

 

Maybe it was because we were better back then?

 

Might be because we were better than them from at least 2001-2004 anyway. Not too sure, maybe they're just fine with us now because we've been shit for a while. I'd be positive that if we got taken over ala Man City, employed Mourinho and started winning things that the affection would quickly vanish.

[summerof69]

Anyone else want to take the bet that should Liverpool win the Europa League then the winners will magically qualify for the Champions League?

 

 

Why would they be let through to the champions league when its unlikely they won't finish 4th, i doubt they would be let through just for winning the Europa league.

 

 

 

Go back to 2004 or 2005 when they won it and finished 5th. Shouldn't have qualified then either but they did

 

True and i agree they shouldn't have qualified that year but Sevilla won the europa league and they didn't qualify....did they ? And because oif that i don't think they would qualify simply because uefa wouldn't have a leg to stand on if that was the case. Atleat when they won the champs league no one had wo  it and not qualified before, so they could change the rules a bit but because sevilla didn't (i think) they couldn't do this.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Anyone else want to take the bet that should Liverpool win the Europa League then the winners will magically qualify for the Champions League?

 

 

Why would they be let through to the champions league when its unlikely they won't finish 4th, i doubt they would be let through just for winning the Europa league.

 

 

 

Go back to 2004 or 2005 when they won it and finished 5th. Shouldn't have qualified then either but they did

 

True and i agree they shouldn't have qualified that year but Sevilla won the europa league and they didn't qualify....did they ? And because oif that i don't think they would qualify simply because uefa wouldn't have a leg to stand on if that was the case. Atleat when they won the champs league no one had wo  it and not qualified before, so they could change the rules a bit but because sevilla didn't (i think) they couldn't do this.

 

They can change the rules to suit really.

 

Go back to 95-96 when we finished second. Did we qualify then - no. The following season we finished second and boom the rules had changed and we qualified.

 

There have been enough people in the media suggesting that the Europa winners go to the Champs League to make it feasible in the eyes of many.

 

(alos isn't this technically the first seaosn of the Europa League?)

[Ocho]

Seen as I spend 75% of my year in Liverpool I feel somehow sort of qualified to come in and debate this topic. First off a rant:

 

I don't see why half of you jumped down Stifler's throat for blaming the fans. It was their fault, simple as. Yes it could have been any set of fans, it was the 80s the vast majority of clubs had a large set of scummy c*** supporters, yes the Police could have dealt with it better, but the fact remains no matter who opened what gate, a large amount of fans who didn't have tickets charged into the stands and ended up killing some of their own fans through their own stupidity. End of. They talk about Hillsborough constantly because they still have someone to blame, hence why they don't talk about Heysel, because its been proven beyond all doubt that it was their fault. Living in the city its an opinion I keep to myself but its my opinion on the matter nonetheless.

 

To answer the original question, I have a few mates who support Liverpool who are fairly balanced and accept that they've been s*** this year and put it down to the ownership more than anything, they understand that they're in trouble if they don't finish 4th, which I don't think they will. They have every right to moan though and around the city its about half and half. Half accept that they've been s*** and have no right to success, and the other half talk utter bollocks. The worst I had was a cab driver who told me that Liverpool should be finishing 1st every year, regardless of the fact they haven't won the league for 20 years. He also had a good laugh at me being a Newcastle fan and my mate being a Forest fan, all in all he was a c***. Most of them actually like Newcastle and our fans though. That's going from my experience anyway.

 

Really?

 

I spent 6 years of my life in Liverpool (1999 - 2005) and the majority of Liverpool fans

 

(a) were deluded

(b) held no affection for Newcastle.

 

There were more than a few occassions when I didn't feel safe walking around in a Newcastle Shirt

 

Maybe it was because we were better back then?

 

I work in Liverpool and live over in the Wirral and have had no problems at all with Liverpool fans or blues for that matter.

 

I don't feel threatened at all walking in my Newcastle top and have been to watch football games on my tod in the pub, with no hint of any problems either.

 

My pals are generally apathetic towards Newcastle, but like to have a good laugh at our off-pitch antics and the cliched 'best supporters in the world' that seems to stick with us.

 

It could different if we were challenging up there (I moved here during the Souness era), but I honestly think Scousers are generally a good bunch.

[QBG]

Seen as I spend 75% of my year in Liverpool I feel somehow sort of qualified to come in and debate this topic. First off a rant:

 

I don't see why half of you jumped down Stifler's throat for blaming the fans. It was their fault, simple as. Yes it could have been any set of fans, it was the 80s the vast majority of clubs had a large set of scummy c*** supporters, yes the Police could have dealt with it better, but the fact remains no matter who opened what gate, a large amount of fans who didn't have tickets charged into the stands and ended up killing some of their own fans through their own stupidity. End of. They talk about Hillsborough constantly because they still have someone to blame, hence why they don't talk about Heysel, because its been proven beyond all doubt that it was their fault. Living in the city its an opinion I keep to myself but its my opinion on the matter nonetheless.

 

To answer the original question, I have a few mates who support Liverpool who are fairly balanced and accept that they've been s*** this year and put it down to the ownership more than anything, they understand that they're in trouble if they don't finish 4th, which I don't think they will. They have every right to moan though and around the city its about half and half. Half accept that they've been s*** and have no right to success, and the other half talk utter bollocks. The worst I had was a cab driver who told me that Liverpool should be finishing 1st every year, regardless of the fact they haven't won the league for 20 years. He also had a good laugh at me being a Newcastle fan and my mate being a Forest fan, all in all he was a c***. Most of them actually like Newcastle and our fans though. That's going from my experience anyway.

 

Really?

 

I spent 6 years of my life in Liverpool (1999 - 2005) and the majority of Liverpool fans

 

(a) were deluded

(b) held no affection for Newcastle.

 

There were more than a few occassions when I didn't feel safe walking around in a Newcastle Shirt

 

Maybe it was because we were better back then?

 

I work in Liverpool and live over in the Wirral and have had no problems at all with Liverpool fans or blues for that matter.

 

I don't feel threatened at all walking in my Newcastle top and have been to watch football games on my tod in the pub, with no hint of any problems either.

 

My pals are generally apathetic towards Newcastle, but like to have a good laugh at our off-pitch antics and the cliched 'best supporters in the world' that seems to stick with us.

 

It could different if we were challenging up there (I moved here during the Souness era), but I honestly think Scousers are generally a good bunch.

 

Yeah it would be a completely different story if we became in the least bit successful again. I'd love to beat them next season, its one of my three wishes for next season. Stay up, win at least the Home Tyne-Wear derby and beat Liverpool at Anfield.

[Ocho]

Yeah it would be a completely different story if we became in the least bit successful again. I'd love to beat them next season, its one of my three wishes for next season. Stay up, win at least the Home Tyne-Wear derby and beat Liverpool at Anfield.

 

Was the last decent result at Anfield, when Lee Bowyer scored in the 1-1 draw about 6 years ago?

[Ronaldo]

Shola, from a Bowyer pass.

[QBG]

Yeah it would be a completely different story if we became in the least bit successful again. I'd love to beat them next season, its one of my three wishes for next season. Stay up, win at least the Home Tyne-Wear derby and beat Liverpool at Anfield.

 

Was the last decent result at Anfield, when Lee Bowyer scored in the 1-1 draw about 6 years ago?

 

Aye the year we came 5th.

[MW]

Yeah it would be a completely different story if we became in the least bit successful again. I'd love to beat them next season, its one of my three wishes for next season. Stay up, win at least the Home Tyne-Wear derby and beat Liverpool at Anfield.

 

Was the last decent result at Anfield, when Lee Bowyer scored in the 1-1 draw about 6 years ago?

 

Aye the year we came 5th.

 

That was Shola when we came 5th. Owen equalised for them.

[Village Idiot]

Just watching some coverage on Sky from the 0-0 with Fulham, and the Liverpool fans seem to think they have it so bloody hard. I can't be bothered to rant, but i cannot stand them!!!

 

Unreasonable expectations, self-pity, anger at the villains who are running the club – that’s widespread among football fans everywhere.

 

The only ones who I don’t understand are the Arsenal fans who criticise Wenger because he hasn’t won a trophy in five years. If I was watching great football in a great stadium with regular appearances in the Champions League, I wouldn’t be complaining.

 

They aren't real fans that criticise Wenger, talk to a proper non arm chair fan and they'll all tell you how much they love Arsene and the work he has done. I adore the man, if we don't win a trophy until he retires i will still love what he has done for the club, at the end of the day there are some clubs that are at risk of going out of business and play s*** football. We play amazing football, are financially secure and have qualified for Europe for the last 15 years or something stupid. He's an unquestionable god amongst genuine Arsenal fans.

My dad tells me of the boring Arsenal days, i cant remember this but i'm proud of where we are.

 

I see Wenger as Cruyff was for us. He kinda lost the plot in his last years due to his stubborness and weird no-name signing policy (he was undermined by the board though), but he completely changed the club philosophy and aspirations, and set us on "our way". So even if he leaves, which at some point he will (and should), that's no reason to become "1-0 to the Arsenal" again.

[Guest Brummiemag]

Just watching some coverage on Sky from the 0-0 with Fulham, and the Liverpool fans seem to think they have it so bloody hard. I can't be bothered to rant, but i cannot stand them!!!

 

 

Unreasonable expectations, self-pity, anger at the villains who are running the club – that’s widespread among football fans everywhere.

 

The only ones who I don’t understand are the Arsenal fans who criticise Wenger because he hasn’t won a trophy in five years. If I was watching great football in a great stadium with regular appearances in the Champions League, I wouldn’t be complaining.

 

They aren't real fans that criticise Wenger, talk to a proper non arm chair fan and they'll all tell you how much they love Arsene and the work he has done. I adore the man, if we don't win a trophy until he retires i will still love what he has done for the club, at the end of the day there are some clubs that are at risk of going out of business and play shit football. We play amazing football, are financially secure and have qualified for Europe for the last 15 years or something stupid. He's an unquestionable god amongst genuine Arsenal fans.

My dad tells me of the boring Arsenal days, i cant remember this but i'm proud of where we are.

 

Agree with you 100% about Wenger, fantastic manager who plays fantastic football. I would happily give him the Newcastle job for life. I reckon its only the twats on phone ins who slag him off and I bet most of them don't go the games

 

As for Liverpool fans, I've generally found the proper scousers up there to be knowledgable, friendly fans who seem to respect Newcastle for their support etc. The City in some ways reminds me of Newcastle to the extent that it seems to have its own unique character and culture, unlike most other places I visit these days.

 

Its all the thousands of glory hunting Liverpool fans from around the country and beyond, most of whom have no connection whatsover with club or city that are the problem.   

[pedro111]

Just watching some coverage on Sky from the 0-0 with Fulham, and the Liverpool fans seem to think they have it so bloody hard. I can't be bothered to rant, but i cannot stand them!!!

 

 

Unreasonable expectations, self-pity, anger at the villains who are running the club – that’s widespread among football fans everywhere.

 

The only ones who I don’t understand are the Arsenal fans who criticise Wenger because he hasn’t won a trophy in five years. If I was watching great football in a great stadium with regular appearances in the Champions League, I wouldn’t be complaining.

 

They aren't real fans that criticise Wenger, talk to a proper non arm chair fan and they'll all tell you how much they love Arsene and the work he has done. I adore the man, if we don't win a trophy until he retires i will still love what he has done for the club, at the end of the day there are some clubs that are at risk of going out of business and play shit football. We play amazing football, are financially secure and have qualified for Europe for the last 15 years or something stupid. He's an unquestionable god amongst genuine Arsenal fans.

My dad tells me of the boring Arsenal days, i cant remember this but i'm proud of where we are.

 

Agree with you 100% about Wenger, fantastic manager who plays fantastic football. I would happily give him the Newcastle job for life. I reckon its only the twats on phone ins who slag him off and I bet most of them don't go the games

 

As for Liverpool fans, I've generally found the proper scousers up there to be knowledgable, friendly fans who seem to respect Newcastle for their support etc. The City in some ways reminds me of Newcastle to the extent that it seems to have its own unique character and culture, unlike most other places I visit these days.

 

Its all the thousands of glory hunting Liverpool fans from around the country and beyond, most of whom have no connection whatsover with club or city that are the problem.     

 

Pretty much sums it up tbh.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

 

Bill Sergeant

Then: Detective Chief Inspector, Merseyside police, 46

Now: Retired

 

I am a Liverpool supporter and, with my son, attended the match as a fan. We had just entered the ground when the trouble began. It was some time before we knew what was happening and we were not aware of just how serious events were.

 

Our sector and the one occupied by the supposedly neutral fans were separated by a flimsy chicken-wire fence. There were, though, Belgian police officers on the majority of the steps between the supporters. There have been suggestions that the trouble was initiated by a single fan, but I am rather sceptical of that.

 

It is true that there were only a very small number of so-called Liverpool supporters involved. The majority remained where they were. We had to watch the antics of around 100 hooligans charging back and forth. I found this particularly frustrating because the Belgian police did not take the sufficient positive action required.

 

Because the spectators retreated so quickly (and I can understand their fear), the hooligans had a large area of terracing. The police found this difficult to cope with. I had seen many disturbances in England – usually following football matches – but I obviously never expected what resulted at Heysel. I am confident that British police – without riot gear – could have done far better. Indeed, 20 Liverpool doormen would have stopped it in very little time.

 

I then led the investigation. We had 17 minutes of film and still photographs to attempt identification of suspects. TV Eye produced an hour-long programme featuring the footage and the national press also published photographs. This drew a positive response and we then checked possible suspects against police records, undertook surveillance and searched homes. In some cases, unbelievably, we found items of clothing – that suspects could be seen wearing on the TV footage – hanging on lines.

 

We then made 27 arrests on suspicion of manslaughter – the only extraditable offence applicable to events at Heysel – of which 60 per cent were from Liverpool and the remainder from places that ranged from Aberdeen to Ipswich. Some already had convictions for football-related violence.

 

It was not, though, easy to convince the Belgian authorities (not the police) that this was the correct way to proceed. At one meeting it was suggested we should merely invite the offenders to go to Belgium. When I doubted such an invitation would be accepted, I was told this would not be a bad thing because the hooligans would be unable to visit Belgium for fear of arrest.

 

I was not convinced, though, that this was sufficient punishment and eventually the government made a formal extradition request. Why were they so reluctant? Maybe because Belgium was a small country completely unprepared for what had happened and there were murmurs about the inadequacy of segregation, the state of the stadium and the actions of the police. Unfortunately, there was no legal provision for extradition to Italy because I am sure it would have been dealt with differently there.

 

Even then, the Belgian legal process still allowed those arrested to return to the UK, which some people did even after they had been convicted and were awaiting sentence. To my knowledge, not a single person ever served his sentence.

 

My investigations never indicated any evidence of extreme right-wing instigation or co-ordination of events that night. The then Liverpool chairman, John Smith, had been quoted suggesting this. I interviewed him and he claimed he had been misquoted.

 

In my opinion, the tragedy resulted from a drink-fuelled aggressive response by Liverpool 'fans' to what they felt was unacceptable behaviour by Juventus supporters. They did not believe the Belgian police were protecting them.

 

We have moved on since 1985, with stricter segregation and all-seat stadiums. What a pity, though, that it took Heysel (and Hillsborough) to rid football of some of its serious problems. But, as recent outbreaks of racist chanting and post-match disturbances indicate, there is still some way to go.

 

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2005/apr/03/newsstory.sport

[nufcmichael]

Singin' bye bye Burnley bye bye today... Another world compared to how Plymouths fans behave about a week ago...

 

 

[zolton]

Has the 'Liverpool player, the girl, the wife and the lover' rumour broken on this site yet.

[adam1]

I think it has aye.

[Lenny]

Saw a comment about it from one of my mates on facebook. Gotta be bullshit.

[nufcmichael]

25 years today since the Heysel tradegy... R.I.P

[Guest toonlass]

25 years today since the Heysel tradegy... R.I.P

 

Indeed. RIP.

[biggs]

Random observation but Liverpool fans had a big part in this too didnt they

 

The Heysel Stadium Disaster occurred when a wall collapsed under the pressure of escaping fans in the Heysel Stadium in Brussels, as a result of rioting before the start of the 1985 European Cup Final. 39 people died, 32 of them Juventus fans, and 600 were injured.

 

Approximately one hour before the Liverpool-Juventus final was due to kick off, a large group of Liverpool fans breached a fence separating them from rival Juventus fans. The Juventus fans ran back and away from the threat into a concrete retaining wall. Fans already seated near the wall were crushed; eventually the wall collapsed. Many people climbed over to safety, but many others died or were badly injured. The game was played despite the disaster in order to prevent further violence.

 

The tragedy resulted in all English football clubs being placed under an indefinite ban by UEFA from all European competitions (lifted in 1990-91), with Liverpool being excluded for an additional year and a number of Liverpool fans prosecuted for manslaughter. The disaster was later described as "the darkest hour in the history of the UEFA competitions."[

 

R.I.P those innocent fans

[nufcmichael]

Indeed they had a big part in it... but opposite the Hillsborough justice, no one ever talks about Heysel justice...

[Dokko]

They never learn, 1,000's of the twats went to the CL final without tickets, stealing them off kids, rushing the gates, climbing walls, breaking through security to get in.

 

Horrible, disgusting, vile set of fans with their poor me poor me attitude going on like the world owes them a favour.