Taylor Swift Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 It's about controlling possession and pinning teams back. The best teams in the world win not because they have a rock solid defence but because their defence is rarely under constant pressure that it's able to cope with the rare counter-attack. When you have defenders scrambling about trying to find someone to mark, there are going to be inevitable lapses. That usually happens when crosses aren't properly cleared or when your midfield is too slow to recover possession after the first clearance. If we have a better, quicker and stronger midfield, we will not be under constant pressure. If we have a more mobile attack, we will be able to keep possession further up the pitch. This doesn't automatically translate to more chances and more goals, but it translates to more possession and lesser goals conceded. The Spain team at the moment perfectly embodies this philosophy. They choke the living hell out of you by just passing it around you and recovering the ball whenever it's loose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 It's about controlling possession and pinning teams back. The best teams in the world win not because they have a rock solid defence but because their defence is rarely under constant pressure that it's able to cope with the rare counter-attack. When you have defenders scrambling about trying to find someone to mark, there are going to be inevitable lapses. That usually happens when crosses aren't properly cleared or when your midfield is too slow to recover possession after the first clearance. If we have a better, quicker and stronger midfield, we will not be under constant pressure. If we have a more mobile attack, we will be able to keep possession further up the pitch. This doesn't automatically translate to more chances and more goals, but it translates to more possession and lesser goals conceded. The Spain team at the moment perfectly embodies this philosophy. They choke the living hell out of you by just passing it around you and recovering the ball whenever it's loose. Spot on, what we've lacked for years is the sort of central midfield we've hopefully found in Tiote and Cabaye. Really looking forward to seeing how we set up. HBA is also pretty excellent on the ball, and Jonas is actually alright most of the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 It's about controlling possession and pinning teams back. The best teams in the world win not because they have a rock solid defence but because their defence is rarely under constant pressure that it's able to cope with the rare counter-attack. When you have defenders scrambling about trying to find someone to mark, there are going to be inevitable lapses. That usually happens when crosses aren't properly cleared or when your midfield is too slow to recover possession after the first clearance. If we have a better, quicker and stronger midfield, we will not be under constant pressure. If we have a more mobile attack, we will be able to keep possession further up the pitch. This doesn't automatically translate to more chances and more goals, but it translates to more possession and lesser goals conceded. The Spain team at the moment perfectly embodies this philosophy. They choke the living hell out of you by just passing it around you and recovering the ball whenever it's loose. Spot on, what we've lacked for years is the sort of central midfield we've hopefully found in Tiote and Cabaye. Really looking forward to seeing how we set up. HBA is also pretty excellent on the ball, and Jonas is actually alright most of the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Jonas doesn't give possession away that much at all, except when he crosses it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I don't understand what is funny about that whatsoever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 WBA and ourselves scored more than Spurs last season, does that mean we both have better attacking teams than them? We had a better attacking team last season - but Carroll and Nolan - who were collectively responsible for 23 of our goals have been moved on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I don't understand what is funny about that whatsoever. It's an ironic laughed aimed at people who ignore what happens on the pitch and cling to ill-conceived player stereotypes. I hope. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 well i found it amusing in an understatement sort of way, he's arguably the best player we have when it comes to keeping the ball Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Only Colocho can explain. Happy to admit I phrased it cautiously because I thought some people wouldn't agree that Jonas keeps the ball well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 We scored more last year than 2004 so naturally last years crop was better than Shearer, Bellamy, Robert, Speed, Dyer, etc. Rubbish bet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Logic Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Speaks volumes that nobody will take his bet tbh. Not really, 57 goals was freakily high compared to averages. We'd be doing well to repeat it never mind exceed it. Points total, as has been pointed out, is a different matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Newcastle United have been handed a major boost in their pursuit of midfielder Karim Ziani after the Algerian was released by Wolfsburg. http://www.givemefootball.com/premier-league/toon-given-green-light-over-african-playmaker-move Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 We should be aiming higher than Ziani. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Logic Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 We should be aiming higher than Ziani. Good enough for the bench? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Anyone know how he got on? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 He is free and that is all that matters to this club Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlacknWhiteArmy Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Don't need. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Thought he was about 24, didnt realise he's 29 in August Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BONTEMPI Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Christ i'm sick of us being owned by such a cheapskate twat. Get 20 million spent now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 He is not rated by Wolfsburg and that Turkish Club, even for free. Fxxk no please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UV Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 WBA and ourselves scored more than Spurs last season, does that mean we both have better attacking teams than them? Wrong tense. If that's the case shouldn't both teams concentrate on buying more defenders if we've got an attack better than the 5th place club?! Wrong tense again, but maybe we should be less blasé about the defence. They've generally been praised (Coloccini, Enrique, and I'll include Tiote here) or deemed as adequate (Williamson, Simpson), but last year I don't remember quite so many complaints about lack of protection from the midfield that we've had for many previous years (as well as Tiote, Gutierrez and Barton are considered as decent at protecting the defence, and Carroll was good at defending set pieces). Yet last year we conceded only 2 less than in our relegation season, and equalled our 3rd worst total in the Premiership years (17 of them). This year we will very likely be losing one of the better members of that defence. But I digress. The fact is, people are getting all excited about how great we're going to be next year with our all new attacking setup. Ben Arfa is going to take to his new position in a new team in a new league like a fish to water as are all the other new signings. Yet noone has any confidence whatsoever that we can actually score more goals than we did last year with only half a season of Carroll, and Nolan slowing us down simply because last year we had some "freak" results which we might not get next year? Of course we might not, then again there may be more "freak" results, but that's why it's a gamble. I fail to see why if people truly believe we have improved as a team so will have more possession, and improved as an attacking force with more scoring options, that it's such an obviously bad bet to take. Are all the other teams spending loads on their defences to stop us scoring next year? Sunderland have spent a bit I guess and we got 6 off them, but it's largely been derided as a bad move, so that can't be it can it? Is what people are getting excited about really just that we'll hopefully have better possession stats? Because I can tell you now that you wont be getting excited watching the game with great possession stats and no goals. I don't even think we were that bad last year in most games possession-wise? If there were somewhere you could get reliable possession stats I might even be tempted to offer up a bet on that. We're supposed to be improving, and moving forward as a team/squad. Apparently you do that by being happy to score less goals as long as you improve your possession stats, and hope your defence (the same defence or potentially weaker) is a lot better at defending teams on the break than teams controlling more of the possession. Until now, it's the first I've really heard of people thinking the team will be better next year because we'll concede less goals tbh. Not convinced. Most of those stats posted above are from years where we finished below mid table btw, so if the aim is to finish above 10th, then we should really be doing better than an average of those. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Right, your post contains a lot of sense, yet you still insist on using goals scored as a proxy for the quality of the team. Why not use something that is better, like points, or position? You're already aware of the flaws in our team: maybe Ben Arfa doesn't fit in, maybe the new guys don't fit in, maybe freak results happen again, maybe Nolan is really such a big loss. You're aware of many factors that could derail our season which makes the decision not to take up the bet I offered quite a confusing one. You're not convinced by my argument that we'll be a better team because we'll constantly have more possession? Take my bet. We're supposed to be improving, but you think we're not. Take my bet then. Like I said: more points than last year. Or, since you think we'll have a weaker defence because we'll be losing a top player like Enrique, maybe you'd be interested in a bet regarding our goals conceded. We'll concede less than we did last year. £50, again. And if you think we'll concede more and score less, then holy hell, you might as well take up the points bet because it'd be a serious statistical anomaly for us to score less, concede more and still end up with more points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Christ i'm sick of us being owned by such a cheapskate twat. Get 20 million spent now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Speaks volumes that nobody will take his bet tbh. UV or Pip? I'd be more inclined to take Pips but neither are entirely dependent on the activity of NUFC so it's fucking nonsense - last year was widely recognised as an anomalous year for a lot of teams and based on that, if we stick as we are in the market, i reckon we'll end up doing worse despite having some better players on the books I was referring to UV's proposal FWIW. Quite comical watching people try and squirm it into something else. On the contrary I think most of those other people have explained their reasoning very well. UV's shallow point-scoring exercise of counting goals rather than results is petty at best. It says more about those who want to support such a narrow argument than it does about those who are disputing it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 It was a simple, straight-forward offer of a bet about how many goals we'll score. I don't see why everyone's getting so worked up about it and offering their own terms instead. If we've improved our side attacking-wise it seems a pretty reasonable assumption that we'll score more goals. Oh, and UV has explained his own reasoning well IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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