Should England fail to qualify from the group?

[madras]

At the end of the day we can keep on blaming the managers, like we have done for the last 30 years or more, and yes Capello has made mistakes, but the root of the problem is that most english players are not comfortable on the ball and lack the necessary skill at the highest level.

 

Very few of them are prepared to try and beat a man and most want to get rid of the ball far to quickly.

 

Even Algeria looked more comfortable on the ball then we did

 

I think some of its down to the way we train the kids, its all about work rate, passing and not making mistakes rather than letting them enjoy the football and encouraging them to express themselves.

all that is true but the likes of lampard,gerrard.rooney,cole are very good players who we know are technically superior to those they've faced so far but they've performed poorly.

 

 

the question ought to be as much about why for years players can't transfer club form to the international stage, beardsley and ian wright are two fantastic examples of this.

[Mick]

all that is true but the likes of lampard,gerrard.rooney,cole are very good players who we know are technically superior to those they've faced so far but they've performed poorly.

 

 

the question ought to be as much about why for years players can't transfer club form to the international stage, beardsley and ian wright are two fantastic examples of this.

 

Are you saying Beardsley didn't transfer his club form to the international team?

[Dave]

Andy Cole.

[midds]

John Barnes.

[madras]

all that is true but the likes of lampard,gerrard.rooney,cole are very good players who we know are technically superior to those they've faced so far but they've performed poorly.

 

 

the question ought to be as much about why for years players can't transfer club form to the international stage, beardsley and ian wright are two fantastic examples of this.

 

Are you saying Beardsley didn't transfer his club form to the international team?

overall yes. one or two very good games particularly at the start of his england career but the ammount of times he played safe when you sat there thinking "he'd have took him on/shot for his club" was startling. he was nowhere near the player for his country what he was for his clubs.

[Parky]

Getting rid of the manager is pointless, the players aren't good enough.

 

Exactly this. 

the players are good enough to get to at least the quarters. poor tactics and organisation is the big failing here.

 

They're struggling to control and pass the ball on a consistent basis. Doesn't help when the boss is chopping and changing the team, granted, but they're not getting the job done. Capello will get the stick but his players are letting him down badly imho.

 

I really think this is mental thing going on, they have been spooked and lost confidence from the Usa game, when already some were playing poorly. So many little (but important things) have gone wrong. I also think they don't really want to play as the mainly Italian management team want them to play. Should have taken that monster Agbonolor, would have been ideal for Wed. Confidence or no confidence he just goes through them.

[Parky]

At the end of the day we can keep on blaming the managers, like we have done for the last 30 years or more, and yes Capello has made mistakes, but the root of the problem is that most english players are not comfortable on the ball and lack the necessary skill at the highest level.

 

Very few of them are prepared to try and beat a man and most want to get rid of the ball far to quickly.

 

Even Algeria looked more comfortable on the ball then we did

 

I think some of its down to the way we train the kids, its all about work rate, passing and not making mistakes rather than letting them enjoy the football and encouraging them to express themselves.

 

They don't really think like modern footballers either and the PL is totally different to slower paced international games, which are much more about nous and carving an oppurtunity.

[Mr. Snrub]

In the last 6 years it's been the same spine of the England squad but there's been absolutely no improvent in both individual or team performances.

 

You've got the Italians and the Germans etc who remain at the very top level even with big squad changes, yet they always remain tactically brilliant.  Now you've got Spain who have finally stepped up about 3 gears and are miles ahead of any other European nation,and  the Dutch who finally look like a squad who can gel together with good team spirit.  Combined with other smaller nations who are visibally improving on a technical level like Slovakia and Serbia and you can only see England get left further and futher behind.

 

As Sewelly said, all these other teams are doing the basics, pass and move, making runs and making space.  With England it's still the same, trying to put square pegs in round holes.  Gerrard and Lampard have two of the best midfielders in the world working behind them at club level in Essien and Masch, they also have 2 of the best strikers in Drog and Torres infront of them.  At international level they don't have these players to let them off the hook and that's why it's not working.  They are passengers and don't know how to work the ball consistenly well when they're in possession.

[Mick]

overall yes. one or two very good games particularly at the start of his england career but the ammount of times he played safe when you sat there thinking "he'd have took him on/shot for his club" was startling. he was nowhere near the player for his country what he was for his clubs.

 

I thought that he was brilliant for England and Gary Lineker agrees with me as he said that Beardsley was the best partner he could ever have.

 

Beardsley totally changed us in the Mexico World Cup and we were going out until he was played and helped Lineker become the tournaments highest scorer, we hadn't scored in our first two games.  We'd have won both of our games in this tournament if we'd had a Beardsley playing.

[madras]

overall yes. one or two very good games particularly at the start of his england career but the ammount of times he played safe when you sat there thinking "he'd have took him on/shot for his club" was startling. he was nowhere near the player for his country what he was for his clubs.

 

I thought that he was brilliant for England and Gary Lineker agrees with me as he said that Beardsley was the best partner he could ever have.

 

Beardsley totally changed us in the Mexico World Cup and we were going out until he was played and helped Lineker become the tournaments highest scorer, we hadn't scored in our first two games.  We'd have won both of our games in this tournament if we'd had a Beardsley playing.

like i said thats when he started off for england.......then what happened later. i'm sure his first cap was in '86 and he had a great world cup but after that he was a different player.

[Mick]

like i said thats when he started off for england.......then what happened later. i'm sure his first cap was in '86 and he had a great world cup but after that he was a different player.

 

I thought that he also played well at Italia '90, we would have probably won that tournament if it wasn't for a shitty deflected goal against Germany or our inability to score from the spot in the same game.

[madras]

like i said thats when he started off for england.......then what happened later. i'm sure his first cap was in '86 and he had a great world cup but after that he was a different player.

 

I thought that he also played well at Italia '90, we would have probably won that tournament if it wasn't for a shitty deflected goal against Germany or our inability to score from the spot in the same game.

howay man mick, we were shit in italia 90, struggled to get out the group,it took two pens (one very iffy) to get past cameroon who were the better team and belgium were slightly the better team till we beat them at the death....we played one good game, we were slightly better than the germans on the day and got beat. we made the semis but dont let it make you think we played well or beardsley for that matter.

[Mick]

howay man mick, we were s*** in italia 90, struggled to get out the group,it took two pens (one very iffy) to get past cameroon who were the better team and belgium were slightly the better team till we beat them at the death....we played one good game, we were slightly better than the germans on the day and got beat. we made the semis but dont let it make you think we played well or beardsley for that matter.

 

I can't remember the first penalty against Cameroon but the 2nd was a certainty when the keeper took Lineker out.  I thought that we were miles better than the lucky Germans and were getting better as the tournament went on.  I also think Beardsley played well in the tournament and as far as I can remember.

[madras]

howay man mick, we were s*** in italia 90, struggled to get out the group,it took two pens (one very iffy) to get past cameroon who were the better team and belgium were slightly the better team till we beat them at the death....we played one good game, we were slightly better than the germans on the day and got beat. we made the semis but dont let it make you think we played well or beardsley for that matter.

 

I can't remember the first penalty against Cameroon but the 2nd was a certainty when the keeper took Lineker out.  I thought that we were miles better than the lucky Germans and were getting better as the tournament went on.  I also think Beardsley played well in the tournament and as far as I can remember.

platt,gazza and lineker were the stand outs for england. beardsley wasn't what he had been. we didn't get better as the tournament went on more that we were poor till the game where we actually got knocked out and yes i do think we'd have beat argentina in the final.

[Ketsbaia]

The sunday papers are going to town on the England squad. Scathing stuff. This is from the News of the World:

 

Wayne Rooney struts around like a preening prima donna

 

ANGRY Fabio Capello has vowed to get a grip on out-of-control Wayne Rooney as simmering tensions in the World Cup camp threaten to boil over. We can reveal the Man United star has been branded a "preening prima donna" who expects the side to be built around him and blames everyone else when things go wrong.

 

England insiders in South Africa believe he acted like a spoilt brat over his outburst at booing fans after the 0-0 flop against Algeria. And Italian Capello, stunned by his team's shocking display, will hold a crunch showdown with the wayward superstar before England's must-win game with Slovenia on Wednesday afternoon - telling him: "Don't let your ego wreck our World Cup."

 

But the Rooney problem is just the tip of an iceberg of player dissent threatening to sink our World Cup dreams. Today we also detail how England's stars - whose lacklustre displays have shocked millions of fans - are:

 

FURIOUS at Capello's off-hand attitude to even the senior members of the squad, often walking past them without even saying hello.

GOING MAD with boredom because they are ordered to rest in their rooms at the team hotel in Rustenburg for up to FIVEHOURS a day.

SUFFERING from such poor morale that even Capello's famous "hair-dryer"-style rants are no longer having any impact.

INSECURE over his tactics and team selection as well as his insistence on only announcing the team two hours before kick-off.

 

Capello, 64, is yet to face a full-on revolt from his misfiring stars-but he shares their concerns about Rooney. The nation was left stunned when the striker turned to a TV camera as he stormed off the pitch on Wednesday and sneered: "Nice to see your home fans boo you. That's what loyal support is." Capello later admitted he fears Rooney has psychological problems. He said: "He's completely fit and in training we have to send him back to the dressing room every time. He's perfect. The problem is in his mind." But a senior England source went further - suggesting the player's ego was to blame. "Wayne came into the competition placed on the same podium as Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo and thought he could eclipse them," he said. "He believes the team should be built around him. And that's what Capello has attempted to do, even though it's meant Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard playing in a system that doesn't suit them. But he's done nothing to justify his billing. Instead, he's been strutting around like a preening prima donna and having a go at the fans he's letting down so badly."

 

Yesterday Rooney issued a statement through the FA about his comments: "I am as passionate about the England team as anyone. Last night, on reflection I said things in the heat of the moment that came out of frustration of both our performance and the result. For my part I apologise for any offence caused by my actions at the end of the game."

 

But his apology will only go some of the way to easing resentment in the camp. Our source said: "Unless Rooney changes his attitude, there is a danger it will continue to fester among his team mates who believe he has been over-indulged." That resentment is not helped by being continually cooped up in the team HQ, the Royal Bafokeng Hotel in Rustenburg. "The main problem is the boredom and the isolation," said our source. "The facilities are first class, but Capello allows them to do nothing but play table tennis or nine holes of golf. They have no freedom. Before the World Cup the initial 30-man squad spent nearly two weeks training at Irdning in the Austrian mountains and they hated it. The boredom has continued at Rustenburg and it's affecting them all very badly. Sometimes they are told to stay in their rooms between three and eight to get some rest. But they don't do this with their clubs. It's totally alien to them. Wayne in particular is going mad with boredom."

 

Capello's aloofness from his team has also caused huge problems. Our insider said: "Players are angry at how unapproachable he is. Even the senior players can't talk to him. There is no warmth there and he makes a point of walking past them without even saying hello. They want somebody with at least a semblance of the human touch - a bit like Sven really."

The players are also secretly desperate for Capello to try something different in the last, do-or-die game against group leaders Slovenia.

 

Our source said: "They want the tactics changed because 4-4-2 isn't working. They don't believe Capello will ever admit he's wrong. That is causing massive frustration among senior players who want it changed to 4-5-1 with Gerrard supporting Rooney. And some of the fringe players do not feel that Capello is picking a team, he's just picking the big names even if they are not performing. The players want to do well - but they've had it with the Capello regime."

 

 

The Daily Mail says:

Fabio Capello is expected to call a crisis meeting with his players in the next 24 hours to discuss England’s dismal performance at the World Cup.

 

And he is lining up Emile Heskey as the fall guy for their failure to win their opening two games, as he seeks to get Wayne Rooney back to his best for the decisive Group C showdown with Slovenia on Wednesday

 

Meanwhile, the Express runs with:

As Fabio Capello’s brooding squad awoke at the Vineyard Hotel on the outskirts of the city, the hardline Italian and his players were barely on speaking terms. In the wake of Friday’s potentially disastrous draw with Algeria, planned rest-day trips to Robben Island, where Nelson Mandela was held for 27 years, and Table Mountain, were scrapped by furious Capello.

 

Wayne Rooney, John Terry and Frank Lampard chose, as one fan put it, to “hide inside their luxury prison like thieves in the night” to escape the wrath of the fans and, more significantly, of Capello. Crumpled England flags were found in the gutter of Cape Town’s Waterfront area yesterday morning where many of England’s 20,000 fans have congregated. Some flags hung as if at half mast from hotel room windows. One had “crap” scrawled across it. Radio 5 Live presenter Nicky Campbell, in Cape Town covering the World Cup, said he had received numerous calls from fans which he was unable to broadcast because of their bad language. He said: “The anger was intense and lot of it turned the air blue.”

 

As you can imagine, theres a LOT of articles on England and none of them pretty. They're all running with Capello to leave if Wednesday turns sour.

[Rich]

The media really love to see us do well, eh? Bet the scrote bastards are walking around with constant stonk-ons at what has happened so far.

[JH]

The media really love to see us do well, eh? Bet the scrote bastards are walking around with constant stonk-ons at what has happened so far.

 

I'm not their biggest fans, but pretty much everything I've just read is spot on. I can imagine it being the truth too. You can tell on the pitch that something is not right behind the scenes.

 

In this instance, the media are saying exactly what everyone in England is thinking.

[Rich]

The media really love to see us do well, eh? Bet the scrote bastards are walking around with constant stonk-ons at what has happened so far.

 

I'm not their biggest fans, but pretty much everything I've just read is spot on. I can imagine it being the truth too. You can tell on the pitch that something is not right behind the scenes.

 

In this instance, the media are saying exactly what everyone in England is thinking.

 

"Inside sources" and all that bollocks as well? Making Rooney the easy scapegoat after what he said to the camera? It's all very convenient to me and they seem to revel in the fact that something isn't right. Hope it builds some sort of siege mentality, allowing us to do the business on Wednesday and then see where we go from there.

[Heron]

The media are a bunch of fucks.

 

Hopefully it will help us come together as a squad though and prove every fucker wrong!

[Guest BooBoo]

After Wednesdays inevitable goalless draw, Spaghetti Heads position will be completely untenable. What a fucking disaster, Bobby would be rolling in his grave.

[JH]

The media really love to see us do well, eh? Bet the scrote bastards are walking around with constant stonk-ons at what has happened so far.

 

I'm not their biggest fans, but pretty much everything I've just read is spot on. I can imagine it being the truth too. You can tell on the pitch that something is not right behind the scenes.

 

In this instance, the media are saying exactly what everyone in England is thinking.

 

"Inside sources" and all that bollocks as well? Making Rooney the easy scapegoat after what he said to the camera? It's all very convenient to me and they seem to revel in the fact that something isn't right. Hope it builds some sort of siege mentality, allowing us to do the business on Wednesday and then see where we go from there.

 

Not to the extreme they report, but I can imagine Rooney's attitude being a problem amongst the squad. I can also imagine that Capello's way of managing (the lack of emotion and 'friendliness' etc) is not popular with the players, especially after having Sven and McClaren as managers previous.

[JH]

The media are a bunch of f***s.

 

Hopefully it will help us come together as a squad though and prove every f***er wrong!

 

So we can slate the team and manager, but the media can't? Ok

[Rich]

Imagine away, let the NoTW be your guide. Funny how people believe the press when it suits them, even when the majority of information comes from one of these fabled "senior inside sources".

 

To me they've just attempted to fill in the blanks and give people scapegoats, which is easy meat really. Not saying that it is categorically false, but I do imagine the odds are in my favour based on that particular paper's track record.

 

There's a difference between criticising and offering suggestions as to what needs fixing/how to fix it, and making shit up to stir the pot even further. As fans we aren't in any great position to influence others, as a newspaper they are.

[Parky]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup-2010/teams/england/7840712/World-Cup-2010-if-Fabio-Capello-cant-coach-England-to-glory-could-anyone.html

 

 

"I think the fear of the World Cup is in the minds of the players. It's incredible. The performance on one side is good [in training] but on the other one they are not the same players."

How do you expect to institute change if the players cannot or will not listen to what you want them to do? Surely nobody out there thinks that what England did against Algeria was what Capello wanted? How do you stop this fear of the World Cup apart from by going out of it?

Capello's post-match despair in the bowels of the Green Point stadium was that of a man who had been beaten. He has received everything that he has asked of the Football Association to ensure that the team received the best possible preparation. There can be no blame thrown in that direction. No, it comes down either to Capello's incompetence or that of his players. Guess who's got the track record?

[JH]

Imagine away, let the NoTW be your guide. Funny how people believe the press when it suits them, even when the majority of information comes from one of these fabled "senior inside sources".

 

To me they've just attempted to fill in the blanks and give people scapegoats, which is easy meat really. Not saying that it is categorically false, but I do imagine the odds are in my favour based on that particular paper's track record.

 

There's a difference between criticising and offering suggestions as to what needs fixing/how to fix it, and making s*** up to stir the pot even further. As fans we aren't in any great position to influence others, as a newspaper they are.

 

I'm not saying the source is accurate, I'm just saying they seem to be hitting around the right area. And it's exactly what everybody else is saying, they're writing what we want to read.

 

Offering suggestions? They're not on the England coaching staff and nobody from the England coaching staff will be reading. There's no influence there and if you think there is, it completely contradicts your earlier comment about the NOTW's lack of a decent track record.

 

At the end of the day, there is something wrong with the squad and the team is underperforming. We're unhappy, they're unhappy, and so the media are reporting unhappiness - they've every right to.