World on alert Germans marching again!

[Wullie]

Owen missed the tournament for the same reason I did, detestable little fuck. We're gonna get bollocksed at Old Trafford on the first day anyway, might as well go down to ten men for someone crippling him. Hope Alan Smith does it actually, he'll get suspended, two birds, one stone.

[Wullie]

One of the many things that've pissed me off about the media's reaction to what happened is the criticism Cappello's got for sticking to 442, these are the same useless twats who've criticised every other England manager whenever they've played some alternative system because "it's not the 442 they're used to playing in the Premiership". I know it's hardly an insight, but the football media are 99% clueless, I mean, who the fuck is Andy Townsend to be criticising anyone, especially someone with the track-record of Cappello, I'd be offended if he criticised me, for fuck's sake!

 

On a slightly related note, and I've already posted this earlier in the thread but fuck it, while I don't think there's anything wrong with having a foreign English coach per se, I think hiring foreign coaches who've never worked in the English game is silly.

[Dokko]

Sky Sports News were showing the stats of coaches and their badges in the UK compared to other top countries and it was something like A, B and Pro badges, UK had around 3,000, Spain had around 30,000 and Germany had 44,000.

 

 

[Wullie]

Sky Sports News were showing the stats of coaches and their badges in the UK compared to other top countries and it was something like A, B and Pro badges, UK had around 3,000, Spain had around 30,000 and Germany had 44,000.

 

 

 

I wonder if the cost varies from country to country. To do them here costs thousands.

[Dokko]

Sky Sports News were showing the stats of coaches and their badges in the UK compared to other top countries and it was something like A, B and Pro badges, UK had around 3,000, Spain had around 30,000 and Germany had 44,000.

 

 

 

I wonder it the cost varies from country to country. To do them here costs thousands.

 

Maybe were pricing people out of the market, wouldn't surprise me.

 

Need to get PE teachers these badges asap, reckon if every school had a qualified footie coach we'd see a massive difference. Tbh if i were a PE teacher i'd have them anyway.

[Village Idiot]

Sky Sports News were showing the stats of coaches and their badges in the UK compared to other top countries and it was something like A, B and Pro badges, UK had around 3,000, Spain had around 30,000 and Germany had 44,000.

 

 

 

I wonder it the cost varies from country to country. To do them here costs thousands.

 

Costs slightly over 2000€ per level in Spain (3 levels total). Friend of mine is doing them.

[Wullie]

Sky Sports News were showing the stats of coaches and their badges in the UK compared to other top countries and it was something like A, B and Pro badges, UK had around 3,000, Spain had around 30,000 and Germany had 44,000.

 

 

 

I wonder it the cost varies from country to country. To do them here costs thousands.

 

Maybe were pricing people out of the market, wouldn't surprise me.

 

Need to get PE teachers these badges asap, reckon if every school had a qualified footie coach we'd see a massive difference. Tbh if i were a PE teacher i'd have them anyway.

 

[Gash]

My mate did PE at Uni and he gets the coaching badges, maybe this is something we are doing?

[indi]

One of the many things that've pissed me off about the media's reaction to what happened is the criticism Cappello's got for sticking to 442, these are the same useless twats who've criticised every other England manager whenever they've played some alternative system because "it's not the 442 they're used to playing in the Premiership". I know it's hardly an insight, but the football media are 99% clueless, I mean, who the fuck is Andy Townsend to be criticising anyone, especially someone with the track-record of Cappello, I'd be offended if he criticised me, for fuck's sake!

 

On a slightly related note, and I've already posted this earlier in the thread but fuck it, while I don't think there's anything wrong with having a foreign English coach per se, I think hiring foreign coaches who've never worked in the English game is silly.

 

It's definitely a concern, but it would depend who it was for me, I think some would be able to get to grips with it faster than others. Have to say that I'm getting increasingly worried about how Fabio's level of English is affecting things having seen some of his press conferences when he obviously didn't understand some very simple questions.

[Thespence]

Sky Sports News were showing the stats of coaches and their badges in the UK compared to other top countries and it was something like A, B and Pro badges, UK had around 3,000, Spain had around 30,000 and Germany had 44,000.

 

 

 

I wonder it the cost varies from country to country. To do them here costs thousands.

 

Maybe were pricing people out of the market, wouldn't surprise me.

 

Need to get PE teachers these badges asap, reckon if every school had a qualified footie coach we'd see a massive difference. Tbh if i were a PE teacher i'd have them anyway.

 

These badge I remember when everyone was ripping SAFC when they appointed Cotterill who had the lot of them. As for PE teachers waste of time really as the pro-clubs advise the best kids/their parents not to play for there schools/boys club, as the children can only play 30 games per season.

[Thespence]

One of the many things that've pissed me off about the media's reaction to what happened is the criticism Cappello's got for sticking to 442, these are the same useless twats who've criticised every other England manager whenever they've played some alternative system because "it's not the 442 they're used to playing in the Premiership". I know it's hardly an insight, but the football media are 99% clueless, I mean, who the f*** is Andy Townsend to be criticising anyone, especially someone with the track-record of Cappello, I'd be offended if he criticised me, for f***'s sake!

 

On a slightly related note, and I've already posted this earlier in the thread but f*** it, while I don't think there's anything wrong with having a foreign English coach per se, I think hiring foreign coaches who've never worked in the English game is silly.

 

It's definitely a concern, but it would depend who it was for me, I think some would be able to get to grips with it faster than others. Have to say that I'm getting increasingly worried about how Fabio's level of English is affecting things having seen some of his press conferences when he obviously didn't understand some very simple questions.

 

His English got worse with poorer results.

[Robster]

It's definitely a concern, but it would depend who it was for me, I think some would be able to get to grips with it faster than others. Have to say that I'm getting increasingly worried about how Fabio's level of English is affecting things having seen some of his press conferences when he obviously didn't understand some very simple questions.

Perhaps he's using the language thing as a way of just simply avoiding having to answer certain questions.

[Geordie Boot Boy]

In the interests of balance, Owen could have scored goals if he was there TBF. I reckon, if his reputation is anything near what it was in the likes of Algeria and Slovenia, he'd have at least made more space for Rooney to operate in who might just have done something. Imagine him with Heskey's chances or Wright-Phillips' chance or Defoe's second chance. It's entirely plausible we would still be in the competition if a fit and in form Michael Owen played as Rooney's strike partner.

 

Or maybe he would have fallen over, twisted his ankle and ruined our game plan in the very first game.

[Geordie Boot Boy]

It's definitely a concern, but it would depend who it was for me, I think some would be able to get to grips with it faster than others. Have to say that I'm getting increasingly worried about how Fabio's level of English is affecting things having seen some of his press conferences when he obviously didn't understand some very simple questions.

Perhaps he's using the language thing as a way of just simply avoiding having to answer certain questions.

 

I think that's what Thespence is getting at.

[Parky]

One of the many things that've pissed me off about the media's reaction to what happened is the criticism Cappello's got for sticking to 442, these are the same useless twats who've criticised every other England manager whenever they've played some alternative system because "it's not the 442 they're used to playing in the Premiership". I know it's hardly an insight, but the football media are 99% clueless, I mean, who the fuck is Andy Townsend to be criticising anyone, especially someone with the track-record of Cappello, I'd be offended if he criticised me, for fuck's sake!

 

On a slightly related note, and I've already posted this earlier in the thread but fuck it, while I don't think there's anything wrong with having a foreign English coach per se, I think hiring foreign coaches who've never worked in the English game is silly.

 

It's definitely a concern, but it would depend who it was for me, I think some would be able to get to grips with it faster than others. Have to say that I'm getting increasingly worried about how Fabio's level of English is affecting things having seen some of his press conferences when he obviously didn't understand some very simple questions.

 

Terry: Can-the-lads-have-a-beer.....biero...?

Capello: Yes we play four four two oo...

[Thespence]

I found out today that Crouch in Italian is pronounced Heskey.

[ohmelads]

 

These players have won these titles with the help of foriegn players in their teams.   Stick these fuckers in one team and they are clueless. 

 

We are saying we as a nation should be producing the players with the skills that these foriegn lads have.

 

 

Are you suggesting Rooney is carried by his foreign teammates at Man Utd?

 

Take Rooney out of Man Utd and the "foreign lads" have not done the business at Man Utd. Take Gerrard out of Liverpool and it's the same story. Lampard, Rooney, Gerrard have been star players for their clubs. There's no point pretending they're sh*t and saying we need new players. That is hiding from the issue. We need to figure out why good footballers are not putting in the same performances they do for their clubs, why as a unit the defenders looked like they'd never seen each other before.

 

It's not a question of lack of skill. We couldn't beat Algeria because of poor organization, poor tactics, and players not performing to their potential. These are the issues we must address if we are to do well in major tournaments.

 

For the record, I do believe England should be doing more at grass-roots level to produce a wider pool of players to choose from, and youth coaching could be improved. But I don't believe for a second that Rooney is carried by his Man Utd team or that he lacks the ability to make an impression against the USA or Algeria. I believe we were bad as a unit but more worryingly our individual players not show even the slightest glimpse of their talent. I don't have the answers, but I strongly believe this is what needs looking at the most. To concentrate on youth coaching and ignore the question of why world class players can't dominate Algeria is IMO hiding from the issue.

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

Sky Sports News were showing the stats of coaches and their badges in the UK compared to other top countries and it was something like A, B and Pro badges, UK had around 3,000, Spain had around 30,000 and Germany had 44,000.

 

 

 

I wonder it the cost varies from country to country. To do them here costs thousands.

 

Maybe were pricing people out of the market, wouldn't surprise me.

 

Need to get PE teachers these badges asap, reckon if every school had a qualified footie coach we'd see a massive difference. Tbh if i were a PE teacher i'd have them anyway.

 

These badge I remember when everyone was ripping SAFC when they appointed Cotterill who had the lot of them. As for PE teachers waste of time really as the pro-clubs advise the best kids/their parents not to play for there schools/boys club, as the children can only play 30 games per season.

 

This seems to be happening now to be honest. Been scanning the jobs section of various FA websites and other places, and most places asking for either a PE teacher with lvl1 coaching badges, or a dedicated football coach with lvl2 to set up a football department within the school. Failing that, there's plenty of schools hiring coaches to come in 1/2 hours a week and coach kids (£10 an hour!) I was pretty impressed!

[mrmojorisin75]

 

These players have won these titles with the help of foriegn players in their teams.   Stick these fuckers in one team and they are clueless. 

 

We are saying we as a nation should be producing the players with the skills that these foriegn lads have.

 

 

Are you suggesting Rooney is carried by his foreign teammates at Man Utd?

 

Take Rooney out of Man Utd and the "foreign lads" have not done the business at Man Utd. Take Gerrard out of Liverpool and it's the same story. Lampard, Rooney, Gerrard have been star players for their clubs. There's no point pretending they're sh*t and saying we need new players. That is hiding from the issue. We need to figure out why good footballers are not putting in the same performances they do for their clubs, why as a unit the defenders looked like they'd never seen each other before.

 

It's not a question of lack of skill. We couldn't beat Algeria because of poor organization, poor tactics, and players not performing to their potential. These are the issues we must address if we are to do well in major tournaments.

 

For the record, I do believe England should be doing more at grass-roots level to produce a wider pool of players to choose from, and youth coaching could be improved. But I don't believe for a second that Rooney is carried by his Man Utd team or that he lacks the ability to make an impression against the USA or Algeria. I believe we were bad as a unit but more worryingly our individual players not show even the slightest glimpse of their talent. I don't have the answers, but I strongly believe this is what needs looking at the most. To concentrate on youth coaching and ignore the question of why world class players can't dominate Algeria is IMO hiding from the issue.

 

Actually Man United won 3 B2B titles largely down to the contributions of top class foreign players like Ronaldo & Tevez (not that Rooney didn't contribute).  Once they were removed from the fold the title slipped away again did it not?  Chelski won the title with Lampard of course and massive contributions from top class foreigners like Carvalho & Drogba.

 

Gimp has it right imo but it doesn't stop with skills; it's attitude, tactical awareness and a number of other things that need to change in the English game before we come close to succeeding again. 

 

Your point about Algeria is a good one, we HAVE better players than them on the surface, better individuals, but as a team they failed to gel and put in a performance.  Having good individuals means nothing in International football, well not nothing but it's not the be all and end all.  Look at Uruguay, they've got 2 individuals up front and a team most people would struggle to name but they're doing pretty well.

 

I thought this about Capello after the US game - for me in English football there's a workable solution, i.e. there's a group of players that will be able to go out and play as a team and do very well.  I have no doubt it's not one that people would expect, i.e. you'd have to cull any number of people like Gerrard/Lampard etc. to make it work.

 

It's about time a millionaire England manager was actually good enough to sit and analyse what we have in the country rather than continue to try and fit the wrong number of square pegs in round holes because it's the easier option than having the media hounding him for dropping super Fwank or EBJT.

[ohmelads]

Actually Man United won 3 B2B titles largely down to the contributions of top class foreign players like Ronaldo & Tevez (not that Rooney didn't contribute).  Once they were removed from the fold the title slipped away again did it not?  Chelski won the title with Lampard of course and massive contributions from top class foreigners like Carvalho & Drogba.

 

Gimp has it right imo but it doesn't stop with skills; it's attitude, tactical awareness and a number of other things that need to change in the English game before we come close to succeeding again. 

 

Your point about Algeria is a good one, we HAVE better players than them on the surface, better individuals, but as a team they failed to gel and put in a performance.  Having good individuals means nothing in International football, well not nothing but it's not the be all and end all.  Look at Uruguay, they've got 2 individuals up front and a team most people would struggle to name but they're doing pretty well.

 

I thought this about Capello after the US game - for me in English football there's a workable solution, i.e. there's a group of players that will be able to go out and play as a team and do very well.  I have no doubt it's not one that people would expect, i.e. you'd have to cull any number of people like Gerrard/Lampard etc. to make it work.

 

It's about time a millionaire England manager was actually good enough to sit and analyse what we have in the country rather than continue to try and fit the wrong number of square pegs in round holes because it's the easier option than having the media hounding him for dropping super Fwank or EBJT.

 

Well nobody is questioning the quality of foreign players at Man Utd or Chelsea. My point was that English players like Rooney, Lampard and Gerrard are in the team on merit. That's a fact. And the likes of Scholes and Beckham before them.

 

The suggestion seems to be that they are not as good as their teammates and are therefore carried, and get exposed at the world cup cos they're in fact crap players. This for me is a nonsense argument. Man utd drop points without Rooney, Liverpool drop points without Gerrard. They're in the team alongside foreign stars totally on merit because they're good enough. Most foreigners I speak to agree that they are top players.

 

I do agree with your last two paragraphs. England will never beat Brazil playing their game. But we can beat teams like that, of course we can. We must find a way to maximise Rooney's strengths and minimise his weaknesses, and the same goes for our other top players. Equally we need balance, we need players who are willing to do the dirty work and let the stars take the plaudits, like Darren Fletcher or Park Ji Sung at Man Utd. You look at every Brazil squad and there are often one or two more average players in there. Remember Kleberson? Often a team can't accommodate too many stars, as I thought happened to Brazil four years ago. For that reason I'd have Milner and Adam Johnson on the flanks, young players who don't see themselves as bigger than the team, who will put balls in the box and work for the team. I'd also give Carrick a run in the team, he might lack Barry's engine but he's a more gifted footballer.

 

Another thing I think we lack is a settled team. Going into the world cup we had no idea who was playing on which flank, or who would partner Rooney up front, or even what formation we were playing. This is a mess. Experimenting new formations days before a world cup is insane. You always had the feeling Capello had no idea what his best team was.

[Jayson]

Actually Man United won 3 B2B titles largely down to the contributions of top class foreign players like Ronaldo & Tevez (not that Rooney didn't contribute).  Once they were removed from the fold the title slipped away again did it not?  Chelski won the title with Lampard of course and massive contributions from top class foreigners like Carvalho & Drogba.

 

Gimp has it right imo but it doesn't stop with skills; it's attitude, tactical awareness and a number of other things that need to change in the English game before we come close to succeeding again. 

 

Your point about Algeria is a good one, we HAVE better players than them on the surface, better individuals, but as a team they failed to gel and put in a performance.  Having good individuals means nothing in International football, well not nothing but it's not the be all and end all.  Look at Uruguay, they've got 2 individuals up front and a team most people would struggle to name but they're doing pretty well.

 

I thought this about Capello after the US game - for me in English football there's a workable solution, i.e. there's a group of players that will be able to go out and play as a team and do very well.  I have no doubt it's not one that people would expect, i.e. you'd have to cull any number of people like Gerrard/Lampard etc. to make it work.

 

It's about time a millionaire England manager was actually good enough to sit and analyse what we have in the country rather than continue to try and fit the wrong number of square pegs in round holes because it's the easier option than having the media hounding him for dropping super Fwank or EBJT.

 

You honestly think Algeria are a better team than Croatia?

 

Not just that, you think theyre so much better. That their ability can hold us to 0-0, while Croatia get hammered 5-1 & 4-1 ?

 

Wasnt anything wrong with our tactical awareness those days was there, or our ability to play as a team.

 

[mrmojorisin75]

Actually Man United won 3 B2B titles largely down to the contributions of top class foreign players like Ronaldo & Tevez (not that Rooney didn't contribute).  Once they were removed from the fold the title slipped away again did it not?  Chelski won the title with Lampard of course and massive contributions from top class foreigners like Carvalho & Drogba.

 

Gimp has it right imo but it doesn't stop with skills; it's attitude, tactical awareness and a number of other things that need to change in the English game before we come close to succeeding again. 

 

Your point about Algeria is a good one, we HAVE better players than them on the surface, better individuals, but as a team they failed to gel and put in a performance.  Having good individuals means nothing in International football, well not nothing but it's not the be all and end all.  Look at Uruguay, they've got 2 individuals up front and a team most people would struggle to name but they're doing pretty well.

 

I thought this about Capello after the US game - for me in English football there's a workable solution, i.e. there's a group of players that will be able to go out and play as a team and do very well.  I have no doubt it's not one that people would expect, i.e. you'd have to cull any number of people like Gerrard/Lampard etc. to make it work.

 

It's about time a millionaire England manager was actually good enough to sit and analyse what we have in the country rather than continue to try and fit the wrong number of square pegs in round holes because it's the easier option than having the media hounding him for dropping super Fwank or EBJT.

 

You honestly think Algeria are a better team than Croatia?

 

Not just that, you think theyre so much better. That their ability can hold us to 0-0, while Croatia get hammered 5-1 & 4-1 ?

 

Wasnt anything wrong with our tactical awareness those days was there, or our ability to play as a team.

 

 

No to answer your questions, but beating one team doesn't mean you're automatically capable of beating an 'inferior' team at International level, no less at a WC where the Algerian's were likely playing for more than the next sponsorship deal as I felt England's 'names' were.

 

The point is, and always has been, that the physical kick and rush approach of the PL will win against the slower continental game but very rarely when it counts at a major tournament.  When it gets to that point you need more than enthusiam and physical strength. 

 

The CL back that up to an extent, it goes in cycles of English teams performing pretty well and playing to their strengths but falling short interspersed with a rare win.

[NG32]

 

These players have won these titles with the help of foriegn players in their teams.   Stick these fuckers in one team and they are clueless. 

 

We are saying we as a nation should be producing the players with the skills that these foriegn lads have.

 

 

Are you suggesting Rooney is carried by his foreign teammates at Man Utd?

 

Take Rooney out of Man Utd and the "foreign lads" have not done the business at Man Utd. Take Gerrard out of Liverpool and it's the same story. Lampard, Rooney, Gerrard have been star players for their clubs. There's no point pretending they're sh*t and saying we need new players. That is hiding from the issue. We need to figure out why good footballers are not putting in the same performances they do for their clubs, why as a unit the defenders looked like they'd never seen each other before.

 

It's not a question of lack of skill. We couldn't beat Algeria because of poor organization, poor tactics, and players not performing to their potential. These are the issues we must address if we are to do well in major tournaments.

 

For the record, I do believe England should be doing more at grass-roots level to produce a wider pool of players to choose from, and youth coaching could be improved. But I don't believe for a second that Rooney is carried by his Man Utd team or that he lacks the ability to make an impression against the USA or Algeria. I believe we were bad as a unit but more worryingly our individual players not show even the slightest glimpse of their talent. I don't have the answers, but I strongly believe this is what needs looking at the most. To concentrate on youth coaching and ignore the question of why world class players can't dominate Algeria is IMO hiding from the issue.

 

Take all the foriegn lads out of Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal and Spurs. What you left with?

[ohmelads]

 

 

The point is, and always has been, that the physical kick and rush approach of the PL will win against the slower continental game but very rarely when it counts at a major tournament.  When it gets to that point you need more than enthusiam and physical strength. 

 

The CL back that up to an extent, it goes in cycles of English teams performing pretty well and playing to their strengths but falling short interspersed with a rare win.

 

Ironic you say that, given that England had more possession and Germany's first goal came from a route one goal kick and brute strength from the striker. The type of goal Allardyce would be proud of.

 

I think the Champions League is a particularly bad example for the point you're trying to make, as English teams have done very well in recent years.

[Parky]

Actually Man United won 3 B2B titles largely down to the contributions of top class foreign players like Ronaldo & Tevez (not that Rooney didn't contribute).  Once they were removed from the fold the title slipped away again did it not?  Chelski won the title with Lampard of course and massive contributions from top class foreigners like Carvalho & Drogba.

 

Gimp has it right imo but it doesn't stop with skills; it's attitude, tactical awareness and a number of other things that need to change in the English game before we come close to succeeding again. 

 

Your point about Algeria is a good one, we HAVE better players than them on the surface, better individuals, but as a team they failed to gel and put in a performance.  Having good individuals means nothing in International football, well not nothing but it's not the be all and end all.  Look at Uruguay, they've got 2 individuals up front and a team most people would struggle to name but they're doing pretty well.

 

I thought this about Capello after the US game - for me in English football there's a workable solution, i.e. there's a group of players that will be able to go out and play as a team and do very well.  I have no doubt it's not one that people would expect, i.e. you'd have to cull any number of people like Gerrard/Lampard etc. to make it work.

 

It's about time a millionaire England manager was actually good enough to sit and analyse what we have in the country rather than continue to try and fit the wrong number of square pegs in round holes because it's the easier option than having the media hounding him for dropping super Fwank or EBJT.

 

Well nobody is questioning the quality of foreign players at Man Utd or Chelsea. My point was that English players like Rooney, Lampard and Gerrard are in the team on merit. That's a fact. And the likes of Scholes and Beckham before them.

 

The suggestion seems to be that they are not as good as their teammates and are therefore carried, and get exposed at the world cup cos they're in fact crap players. This for me is a nonsense argument. Man utd drop points without Rooney, Liverpool drop points without Gerrard. They're in the team alongside foreign stars totally on merit because they're good enough. Most foreigners I speak to agree that they are top players.

 

I do agree with your last two paragraphs. England will never beat Brazil playing their game. But we can beat teams like that, of course we can. We must find a way to maximise Rooney's strengths and minimise his weaknesses, and the same goes for our other top players. Equally we need balance, we need players who are willing to do the dirty work and let the stars take the plaudits, like Darren Fletcher or Park Ji Sung at Man Utd. You look at every Brazil squad and there are often one or two more average players in there. Remember Kleberson? Often a team can't accommodate too many stars, as I thought happened to Brazil four years ago. For that reason I'd have Milner and Adam Johnson on the flanks, young players who don't see themselves as bigger than the team, who will put balls in the box and work for the team. I'd also give Carrick a run in the team, he might lack Barry's engine but he's a more gifted footballer.

 

Another thing I think we lack is a settled team. Going into the world cup we had no idea who was playing on which flank, or who would partner Rooney up front, or even what formation we were playing. This is a mess. Experimenting new formations days before a world cup is insane. You always had the feeling Capello had no idea what his best team was.

 

Scholes and Beckham imo were much better at international level than Lampard and gerrard.

 

 

With the turn of the century, Scholes became a prominent player in England's midfield, becoming a first-choice selection for the 2002 World Cup. However, after the tournament, Scholes saw his opportunities in the national team decline due to Sven-Göran Eriksson playing him out of position on the left midfield to accommodate the pairing of Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard in central midfield.[31]  Scholes announced his retirement from international football in August 2004, citing his family life and his club career with Manchester United as being more important.[32]