The Liverpool Thread

[Mr. Snrub]

That photo was taken when Song was 17.

[Sifu]

 

 

Published 00:00 03/09/08 By By Jamie Carragher

 

After I established myself at right-back, our African defender Rigobert Song found himself out of the team and our previously healthy relationship instantly deteriorated.

 

One morning in training he was told I'd been called into the England squad after performing well at full-back.

 

There was a look of astonishment on Song's face - a bit like the one we used to give him when he claimed he was only 21.

 

He might as well have blurted out he thought I wasn't good enough for international football.

 

He strolled off to his French speaking friends and began talking to them. I could see him pointing towards me while everyone was grinning. It was clear what he was saying and the rage inside me simmered.

 

Later, Song walked on to the training pitch with a smile on his face. He was limping off it with a grimace an hour later. The first chance I got, I did him. Never have I hunted down a 50-50 tackle with greater appetite.

 

"You're not f***ing laughing now are you, you soft t***?" I said as he hobbled away.

 

Did I care he had a knock? No way. I don't remember him or anyone else in the squad for that matter trying to take the p*ss out of my ability again.

 

Read more: http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Rigobert-Song-soon-learned-not-to-knock-Liverpool-team-mate-Jamie-Carragher-article39345.html#ixzz1YhLkocWU

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That solidifies it then. Cunt of the highest order.

[Neil]

Hopefully no-one's surprised by this, like.

 

Twat on the pitch, twat off the pitch, and will continue to be a twat.

 

Twat.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

There's no doubt that Dalglish has been better, but considering Kenny is thought of as a God, and Hodgson is thought of as worse than cancer, you're not that far better off.

 

Think that is a fair enough comment, though a lot of Liverpool fans will be blinded by their love for KD for some time to come, his status gives him at least this full season to make an impact.

 

 

To a certain extent I agree with you.  There is nothing KD could do that would lessen my feelings about him.

 

He's been an outstanding player, manager, and man for this club, but what many people forget is we've been there with Kenny, won titles and cups.  He also created the best Liverpool team I've ever seen and I've seen most of the greatest ones.  I have no doubt about Kenny Dalglish, nor the players he buys.  There's bound to be some duds, but that happens everywhere.

 

Like already said, very similar to when KK came back here in terms of criticism from the fans, and his start wasn't great either. But for me the same doubts I have over KD at Liverpool now linger as when we had KK as I feel he's a manager of yesteryear, and hasn't progressed with the times. How could he have, he's been out of the game for some time. There's a lot of things that are different now, media involvement, player power, agents, owners, sponsors, advertisers and Sky's dominance, all add extra to a managers job, then there's the football side of things, a hell of a lot quicker, more tactical and less room for error, everything has come on since he's managed a top job.

 

What he has brought is his love for the club, uniting warring sides, motivating the players and getting the club looking positive, which is what KK did here, but like KK how does he handle the other parts of a managers life? KK didn't do too well and it ended in tears when told he couldn't have the players he wanted, and had to do with what the club thought were the players right at this time, rightly or wrongly. There are going to be situations where KD finds himself and his principles and old ways compromised, how will he react? Signs of this are already creeping in in his interviews, even when matches are won he's less than enthusiastic, complaining about refs, the blame game, and this as we know from his time here will just get worse and when the results stagnate Journo's will have a field day and watch him flip out at any difficult or awkward questions. That has already begun, strange comments from Hodgson, KD will match them all by the end of the season.

 

As for his transfers, this is where you need to question him most. Gone are the days Liverpool churn out genuine quality through their academy so he's decided to go out and buy the best of British, regardless of what it costs. Problem is, these players who were doing it at their respective clubs had a lot less pressure on them and their defects were accepted, and poor performances forgiven. Everyone does make bad moves in the transfer market, SBR with Carl Cort springs to mind, there's a lot of people I know think SBR actually bought the wrong player by accident! Only £6m here and there, yes it stops progression, yes it means we've lost that amount, but its not as crippling as sanctioning £35m on one player based on 4 months in a top division who was injured at the time of signing, has off field problems and doesn't suit the style of play Liverpool fans cry out for. That kind of decision can cripple a club. Especially when you follow it up with £20m on Jordan Henderson.

 

The kind of signings Liverpool need are Suarez, everyone at the time went aye, good player, big fee, no doubt he'll match it though, and he has, and its these types of players Liverpool need to bring in to get the club moving again, not blowing £35m on a possibility. It should have been a certainty or near certainty like Eden Hazard or Lukaku. Unfortunately England doesn't have many quality players, so why KD has done his shopping, big remoulding of the squad shopping on these shores for me is incredibly stupid and stuck in the past where he bought his Blackburn team and thinks 20 years later he can do it again, he can't. Henderson £20m Vs Cabaye £4m, early days yeah, but Henderson will never be 5 times as good as Cabaye and so a massive waste of coin for Liverpool and it stopped other signings elsewhere in the team. He got lucky with Enrique, under full contract £15m, but we had no choice to sell on the cheap.

 

Motivation will only get you so far, then other things count, when the chips are down KD isn't the type of manager to turn it around, he'll blame everyone else until his luck changes or players start pulling it back themselves, what he is good for is creating a bandwagon and getting everyone to jump on it and follow him up a mountain, whether there is success to be had in that method time will tell, but with Chelsea with a forward thinking manager, Manu with one of the best managers who has ever lived, Citeh with enough money to smooth over any problem, what exactly is classed as success for Liverpool these days? Beating Arsenal to 4th, getting a League cup? As i believe that's the limit under KD if things go your way.

 

 

 

Cracking insight mate and a good read. Enjoyed your ramblings on Liverpool. Wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts on Arsenal tbh.

[ponsaelius]

Great post that, TT. Agree with every word.

[Dinho lad]

Another Liverpool bug-bear; Jamie Carragher.

 

s**** defender, s**** person. Finished, should retire.

 

 

extract from his autobiography:

 

Lucas Neill's lucky escape after breaking Jamie Carragher's leg

By Jamie Carragher 4/09/2008

 

 

When my leg was broken in an horrific tackle by Lucas Neill in September 2000, my mates were ready to hunt him down if I gave the go-ahead.

 

A few weeks later I received a phone call. "You won't believe this, Jay. We're in the Trafford Centre and Lucas Neill is walking straight towards us. What do you reckon?"

 

Did I really want Neill to take a crack? "There's only one problem," added the voice. "Little Davey Thommo is with him."

 

That was that. I could hardly let one of my best mates, David Thompson, now a Blackburn player, become a witness to an assault. Besides he'd have recognised the attackers. The impromptu mission was aborted and I sent a text to Thommo telling him Neill should give him a hug of thanks.

 

As word got back to Blackburn about the near miss, or should that be hit, their coach Terry Darracott, a Scouser, appealed to one of my friends to call the boys off. I agreed.

 

 

 

Complete arsehole

 

What a twat.

[Mr. Snrub]

What I hate about Carragher is, despite the fact he's a complete liability and he knows it, should anyone else ever dare to make a mistake he's straight over in their face, shouting the odds and giving it the big 'un.  Having a word's one thing, but he always looks like he's a second away from decking them.

 

The guy behaves like a schoolyard bully on and off the pitch.  An utterly detestable prick.

[Ronaldo]

As much as I dislike the fella, his book is a very good read.

[Guest PhilB]

There's no doubt that Dalglish has been better, but considering Kenny is thought of as a God, and Hodgson is thought of as worse than cancer, you're not that far better off.

 

Think that is a fair enough comment, though a lot of Liverpool fans will be blinded by their love for KD for some time to come, his status gives him at least this full season to make an impact.

 

 

To a certain extent I agree with you.  There is nothing KD could do that would lessen my feelings about him.

 

He's been an outstanding player, manager, and man for this club, but what many people forget is we've been there with Kenny, won titles and cups.  He also created the best Liverpool team I've ever seen and I've seen most of the greatest ones.  I have no doubt about Kenny Dalglish, nor the players he buys.  There's bound to be some duds, but that happens everywhere.

 

Like already said, very similar to when KK came back here in terms of criticism from the fans, and his start wasn't great either. But for me the same doubts I have over KD at Liverpool now linger as when we had KK as I feel he's a manager of yesteryear, and hasn't progressed with the times. How could he have, he's been out of the game for some time. There's a lot of things that are different now, media involvement, player power, agents, owners, sponsors, advertisers and Sky's dominance, all add extra to a managers job, then there's the football side of things, a hell of a lot quicker, more tactical and less room for error, everything has come on since he's managed a top job.

 

KD's start was great, and for the 13 years he served here as footballer and manager he was in the media spotlight, and  not being in management doesn't mean he was out of the game.  He's been back at Liverpool for nearly 3 years now, working at The Academy prior to be becoming manager, I'm sure he was well aware of the changes in the game.  Even when he was out of it his life was still very much in football, his social life involved footballers, he attended Anfield every other week, he was friends with current players which I think gives him more of an aspect on agents etc...

He is also the first to say that if the owners find someone better, for the good of the club he'd go.  His love for LFC is in only wanting the best for them, no matter where it leaves him personally.

 

What he has brought is his love for the club, uniting warring sides, motivating the players and getting the club looking positive, which is what KK did here, but like KK how does he handle the other parts of a managers life? KK didn't do too well and it ended in tears when told he couldn't have the players he wanted, and had to do with what the club thought were the players right at this time, rightly or wrongly. There are going to be situations where KD finds himself and his principles and old ways compromised, how will he react? Signs of this are already creeping in in his interviews, even when matches are won he's less than enthusiastic, complaining about refs, the blame game, and this as we know from his time here will just get worse and when the results stagnate Journo's will have a field day and watch him flip out at any difficult or awkward questions. That has already begun, strange comments from Hodgson, KD will match them all by the end of the season.

 

He has never liked the press, but whereas when he was younger he struggled to handle them he now takes the piss out of them which is a joy to watch tbh.  He has never suffered fools gladly and most journos at his pc's know how he'll react if they ask stupid questions, most seem to really enjoy it and like and respect him. There are no, and never have been, any comments from KD that remotely resemble Hodgson.  If complaining about the ref means he's losing it then there are an awful lot of lost managers out there.  KD says everything that Liverpool fans want to hear him say and long may it continue.

 

As for his transfers, this is where you need to question him most. Gone are the days Liverpool churn out genuine quality through their academy so he's decided to go out and buy the best of British, regardless of what it costs. Problem is, these players who were doing it at their respective clubs had a lot less pressure on them and their defects were accepted, and poor performances forgiven. Everyone does make bad moves in the transfer market, SBR with Carl Cort springs to mind, there's a lot of people I know think SBR actually bought the wrong player by accident! Only £6m here and there, yes it stops progression, yes it means we've lost that amount, but its not as crippling as sanctioning £35m on one player based on 4 months in a top division who was injured at the time of signing, has off field problems and doesn't suit the style of play Liverpool fans cry out for. That kind of decision can cripple a club. Especially when you follow it up with £20m on Jordan Henderson.

 

We didn't have any European football to offer so why would top players come to us?  Besides which FSG's policy is to buy young and where there are young kids to come through the academy, bring in an experienced player until the youngster is ready.  Much as you say not, there are some great youngsters coming through and we have coaches with Barcelona credentials to guide them.  The Academy is, atm, the strongest I've seen it in a long time.  Kenny has also brought a few through already in Flanagan, Robinson and Kelly.  Jordan Henderson cost Liverpool 13 million plus add ons up to 16 million, seems to be the going rate for young English players. 

The kind of signings Liverpool need are Suarez, everyone at the time went aye, good player, big fee, no doubt he'll match it though, and he has, and its these types of players Liverpool need to bring in to get the club moving again, not blowing £35m on a possibility. It should have been a certainty or near certainty like Eden Hazard or Lukaku. Unfortunately England doesn't have many quality players, so why KD has done his shopping, big remoulding of the squad shopping on these shores for me is incredibly stupid and stuck in the past where he bought his Blackburn team and thinks 20 years later he can do it again, he can't. Henderson £20m Vs Cabaye £4m, early days yeah, but Henderson will never be 5 times as good as Cabaye and so a massive waste of coin for Liverpool and it stopped other signings elsewhere in the team. He got lucky with Enrique, under full contract £15m, but we had no choice to sell on the cheap.

 

Wish I had your crystal ball and superscout abilities.  It's too early to tell how this summers buys for either club work out and if we get back in Europe, the new rules apply,  English players will mean more than a load of foreigners.  I'm certain KD and the rest at LFC know far more than you (or I) about why and what they expect from the players they buy.

 

Motivation will only get you so far, then other things count, when the chips are down KD isn't the type of manager to turn it around, he'll blame everyone else until his luck changes or players start pulling it back themselves, what he is good for is creating a bandwagon and getting everyone to jump on it and follow him up a mountain, whether there is success to be had in that method time will tell, but with Chelsea with a forward thinking manager, Manu with one of the best managers who has ever lived, Citeh with enough money to smooth over any problem, what exactly is classed as success for Liverpool these days? Beating Arsenal to 4th, getting a League cup? As i believe that's the limit under KD if things go your way.

 

As I've already said Kenny Dalglish created the best Liverpool team ever.  The football they played was a dream, better than any other English team I've seen.  That's my and most Liverpool fans opinion of course, and I'm sure you'll disagree, but there are many others outside of Liverpool who agree with my opinion. Liverpool don't have the money to compete with Chelsea, Man U and City so it looks like it has to be Arsenal and Spurs.  A League Cup would fine for the present, but CL is the only comp that will give us the money to progress higher.

 

 

[Dan Gleebals]

As much as I dislike the fella, his book is a very good read.

 

He cannot write.  You have been blagged

[Guest PhilB]

What I hate about Carragher is, despite the fact he's a complete liability and he knows it, should anyone else ever dare to make a mistake he's straight over in their face, shouting the odds and giving it the big 'un.  Having a word's one thing, but he always looks like he's a second away from decking them.

 

The guy behaves like a schoolyard bully on and off the pitch.  An utterly detestable prick.

 

Off the pitch?  Carragher is a family man through and through and can often be seen on sunny afternoons taking his kids for a bike ride along the river front.  He's as ordinary as anyone and you don't hear of him in the clubs or causing trouble anywhere. 

[wormy]

What I hate about Carragher is, despite the fact he's a complete liability and he knows it, should anyone else ever dare to make a mistake he's straight over in their face, shouting the odds and giving it the big 'un.  Having a word's one thing, but he always looks like he's a second away from decking them.

 

The guy behaves like a schoolyard bully on and off the pitch.  An utterly detestable prick.

 

Off the pitch?  Carragher is a family man through and through and can often be seen on sunny afternoons taking his kids for a bike ride along the river front.  He's as ordinary as anyone and you don't hear of him in the clubs or causing trouble anywhere. 

 

Aye. He's a good lad. He keeps injuring people on purpose to the training pitch, and stops his rambunctious, cheeky buddies from taking out a fellow professional.

[Mr. Snrub]

Purposely injuring people in training, arranging for someone to get a hiding.  It's not the behaviour of a well rounded person.

[Guest PhilB]

What I hate about Carragher is, despite the fact he's a complete liability and he knows it, should anyone else ever dare to make a mistake he's straight over in their face, shouting the odds and giving it the big 'un.  Having a word's one thing, but he always looks like he's a second away from decking them.

 

The guy behaves like a schoolyard bully on and off the pitch.  An utterly detestable prick.

 

Off the pitch?  Carragher is a family man through and through and can often be seen on sunny afternoons taking his kids for a bike ride along the river front.  He's as ordinary as anyone and you don't hear of him in the clubs or causing trouble anywhere. 

 

Aye. He's a good lad. He keeps injuring people on purpose to the training pitch, and stops his rambunctious, cheeky buddies from taking out a fellow professional.

 

He stands by what he said but that was a personal thing between him and the guy in question.

[Neil]

A personal thing? A personal thing he openly talked about in public?

 

He's a twat, plain and simple.

[wormy]

Purposely injuring people in training, arranging for someone to get a hiding.  It's not the behaviour of a well rounded person.

 

He didn't arrange it! He stopped it! Good lad that he is even recommended a hug be traded as well, just for even more good feeling to be spread.

[Guest PhilB]

A personal thing? A personal thing he openly talked about in public?

 

He's a t***, plain and simple.

 

He's getting a bit over the hill now, but I'm very glad he was our twat for so long.

[Neil]

Nice changing of the subject, but it's good to know even a Liverpool supporter knows he's a twat.

[Mr Logic]

Think you're too close to this one PhilB.. need to step back a bit and take a broader perspective if you can. (Talking mainly about Carragher btw, not Dalglish.)

 

What he reveals in his autobiography are not the musings of a pleasant chap, more the actions of a petty minded thug. You can be a family man and a petty thug, different facets of the same persona.

[wormy]

Tbf I can see where Phil's coming from. Kind of like their Barton, but not as big misdemeanours and less publicised twattishness.

 

Still a twat.

[ponsaelius]

He's shite too. Accepting and idolising mediocrity like Carragher is half the reason they've slipped from being the biggest team in England by a mile to not winning a title in over 20 years.

[Dinho lad]

Liked what Xavi said about him a while back.

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

Hodgson: P31 W13 D9 L9, Dalglish: P30 W15 D6 L9

 

Obviously, doesn't take into account which teams each manager has faced. Thought Dalglish would have been miles a head of Hodgson based on fan reaction/support.

[Guest PhilB]

League Games

Hodgson - P20  W7    D4    L9

Dalglish  - P23  W12  D4    L7

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

Even those aren't that stellar, considering Dalglish has had 3 more games and spent £100m.