Win 1-0 or Lose 4-3

[Guest Roger Kint]

Genuine question. Can you honestly say we have played good football since Robson left? Small period of 7 games under KK aside.

[Disco]

Genuine question. Can you honestly say we have played good football since Robson left? Small period of 7 games under KK aside.

 

Occaisionally played some good stuff at home last season. Not consistantly though.

[chicago_shearer]

Winning and entertaining are not mutually exclusive.  It's hard to pull a Stoke or a Big Sam and stay successful while being crap.  Usually you get found out.  But even if it was, I think 38 horrible, dire, almost unwatchable 1-0 victories would be enough to keep people turning up and buying shirts.  Success is entertaining. 

[NG32]

Winning and entertaining are not mutually exclusive.  It's hard to pull a Stoke or a Big Sam and stay successful while being crap.  Usually you get found out.  But even if it was, I think 38 horrible, dire, almost unwatchable 1-0 victories would be enough to keep people turning up and buying shirts.  Success is entertaining. 

 

I think there would be mumblings and as soon as that stopped working it would be leaped upon.

[JH]

Football is a competitive sport.  The aim is to win, not to entertain.  Any entertainment is a bonus.  One-nil all the way for me.

 

A large number of the people who currently pay hundreds of pounds a season to watch the competitive sport wont carry on doing so year after year if they are not entertained while doing so.

 

The less people who pay hundreds of pounds a season to watch the competitive sport, the less chance there will be of winning (in the top league).

 

Just doing enough to survive is a very short term view of success and will get harder and harder every year.

 

This whole 'season ticket holders blah blah blah' argument is a myth I think.

 

If you polled the 52k of people going to the ground every week, I bet 90% of them would rather see a winning Newcastle than an entertaining Newcastle. Why bother being promoted if that was the case? Why were people so desperate to see us in the top league? We were entertaining enough in the Championship, might as well have just stayed there.

[David28]

Genuine question. Can you honestly say we have played good football since Robson left? Small period of 7 games under KK aside.

 

Occaisionally played some good stuff at home last season. Not consistantly though.

 

We played some good football under Roeder as well. Alkmaar at home (4-2, UEFA CUP) comes to my mind for example. Or the 2-2 draw vs. Man Utd.

 

 

Even the first match under Allardyce vs Bolton was entertaining iirc.

[Guest Roger Kint]

First half v Bolton was, alarming drop in play second half which became a recurring theme of BSA games tbh

[UV]

Winning and entertaining are not mutually exclusive.  It's hard to pull a Stoke or a Big Sam and stay successful while being crap.  Usually you get found out.  But even if it was, I think 38 horrible, dire, almost unwatchable 1-0 victories would be enough to keep people turning up and buying shirts.  Success is entertaining. 

 

We're not talking about playing badly and winning more often than not though are we. We're talking about setting out not to take the game to the opposition but to to stifle their attacking threat nearly all the time, mostly failing in that task and losing, but getting enough 0-0 and 1-1 draws, and 8 or 9 scrappy 1-0 victories mostly against other bottom of the table sides which we "deserved to lose", with only the prospect of more of the same the following season if we do manage to stay up to look forward to. That's the reality of a "I'd be happy to finish 17th playing poorly" "consolidation" season. Are you really prepared for it?

[David Icke - Son of God]

Winning and entertaining are not mutually exclusive.  It's hard to pull a Stoke or a Big Sam and stay successful while being crap.  Usually you get found out.  But even if it was, I think 38 horrible, dire, almost unwatchable 1-0 victories would be enough to keep people turning up and buying shirts.  Success is entertaining. 

 

We're not talking about playing badly and winning more often than not though are we. We're talking about setting out not to take the game to the opposition but to to stifle their attacking threat nearly all the time, mostly failing in that task and losing, but getting enough 0-0 and 1-1 draws, and 8 or 9 scrappy 1-0 victories mostly against other bottom of the table sides which we "deserved to lose", with only the prospect of more of the same the following season if we do manage to stay up to look forward to. That's the reality of a "I'd be happy to finish 17th playing poorly" "consolidation" season. Are you really prepared for it?

 

Have you read the title of the thread?

[Jaehyun]

Not this again, of course win.

[Guest Brummiemag]

Who would choose a loss over a win?

 

Brummiemag i would guess

 

Well you guessed wrong. I have never said I would rather lose than win.

 

I said I want Newcastle to try and play good football whatever their situation and then lets see what happens. I also said the result is not the be all and end all for me

 

I spend an awful lot of money travelling round the country following Newcastle and I don't really see why I should have to fucking justify wanting to see a bit of decent football once in a while.

[Guest Antigalican]

Yeah we got the draw at Old Trafford and I think Cole showed what he was capable of, had we lost that game it would have been three straight defeats at the start of the season, but there was no gnashing of teeth because people had a more sympatheic and patient approach back then. We were just happy to be in the Premiership and knew it would take time to get established. I get the impression this time arou that if we lose the first two games, or even win one of them against the run of play, there will be criticism and hand-wringing. We have a manager and some players who need to be allowed to find their feet at the higher level.

 

Just out of interest, what makes you think that? I would have though we would be very patient, especially knowing a lot of our players are useless at Premiership level.

 

Just reading this forum, and the way many seem to be talking, especially on the way home after Saturday. Its not everyone, but I think our first objective has to be to gain a foothold in this division, which will breed confidence and self-belief and hopefully the platform for progress and some decent football. What happens after that nobody can guess, but if we don't do it I will guarantee it will be a far more depressing scenario!

 

As I mentioned above, I bet that was KK's objective last time around, despite his obvious footballing principles.

[Guest Roger Kint]

We havent(and wont) see decent football in years so its pointless banging on about it. We all pay a lot of money to follow the team and i would take sucess over sexy football anyday.

[Heron]

Well he's obviously had his first shandy

 

Your little bite was cute, it made my line wobble a little just enough to reel you in - but I think I'll leave you in the water for now. Until you take a real chomp.

[leazes.ender]

For me there is a bigger debate in this. When we got relegated we tried to win ugly and failed and had done just the same for the previous few years. The reality is would we rather try and eek out the points we might get playing boring defensive football or have a go in the hope of actually winning big enough share of matches to stay up.

 

For me there are far more miserable teams in the Premier League who are better than up at grinding out results so who is to say a defensive approach would keep up better.

 

Better to die fighting than go out with a pathetic whimper like last time.

 

 

 

[Mr. Snrub]

We havent(and wont) see decent football in years so its pointless banging on about it. We all pay a lot of money to follow the team and i would take sucess over sexy football anyday.

 

Constantly finishing around 14th-15th would be a success to you?

[Liam Liam Liam O]

For me there is a bigger debate in this. When we got relegated we tried to win ugly and failed and had done just the same for the previous few years. The reality is would we rather try and eek out the points we might get playing boring defensive football or have a go in the hope of actually winning big enough share of matches to stay up.

 

For me there are far more miserable teams in the Premier League who are better than up at grinding out results so who is to say a defensive approach would keep up better.

 

Better to die fighting than go out with a pathetic whimper like last time.

 

 

 

 

The problem was we didn't try to win for the most part last time.

[Guest Antigalican]

We havent(and wont) see decent football in years so its pointless banging on about it. We all pay a lot of money to follow the team and i would take sucess over sexy football anyday.

 

Constantly finishing around 14th-15th would be a success to you?

 

If someone offered you 14th now would you not take it?

 

To me that, plus hopefully a cup run or two would be a very decent season.

[Cajun]

Well he's obviously had his first shandy

 

Your little bite was cute, it made my line wobble a little just enough to reel you in - but I think I'll leave you in the water for now. Until you take a real chomp.

 

Grow up minge face.

[Mattoon]

I think a more pertinent question would be 1-0 win or 4-3 win, good, regimented side who tackle well and play scrappy to keep the ball, or an all out offensive side who can play some pretty football but have no discipline about them. A healthy balance would be anyones first choice but I think I'd rather have 1-0 wins than be ripping my hair out hoping we can score more than we concede, because that kind of football will get found out.

[Mowen]

Lose 4-3

[Guest elbee909]

I think this thread should be renamed 'Would you rather lose, or win'.  The additional conditions are pretty meaningless.

[Cajun]

Not really, what with them being the whole point of the thread and that

[Guest malandro]

I think a more pertinent question would be 1-0 win or 4-3 win, good, regimented side who tackle well and play scrappy to keep the ball, or an all out offensive side who can play some pretty football but have no discipline about them. A healthy balance would be anyones first choice but I think I'd rather have 1-0 wins than be ripping my hair out hoping we can score more than we concede, because that kind of football will get found out.

So will being overly cautious. If we don’t commit men forward our goal scoring chances will be few and far between, which will expose our lack of fire power all the more. It will also encourage the opposition to attack safe in the knowledge we’re not trying very hard to score. This might create the odd counter attacking opportunity but it will also put a huge amount of pressure on a defensive unit that encountered virtually non last season.

 

It’s all swings and roundabouts and those suggesting shutting up shop is the only option are being very blinkered. Horses for courses is the best option, selecting tactics based on who we are playing and the context of the game. However, if the rumour about narrowing the pitch is true it would seem clear Hughton only has one broad tactic in mind. It would be a brave/foolish decision from a manager who has shown that not losing is his priority. This approach worked last season against sides that were profligate in front of goal and gifted us goal scoring opportunities through poor organisation and basic errors. It’ll be different back in the top flight, keeping it tight and waiting for the opposition to fuck up won’t be enough to win games.

 

This season is the real test of Hughton the manager. Here’s hoping he doesn’t limit his options before a ball has been kicked.

 

[Jayson]

The question is really whether the temporary highs of winning 1-0 makes up for the lack of enjoyment you'd get from the football. In comparison to having a great time watching the game & coming out on the losing side.

 

Bringing relegation into things is just confusing people.

 

I think generally most would prefer to lose 4-3 on a one off game when they looked back. Its what the game is all about, that excitement...the low from losing just masks that. Its pretty rare to remember a one off 1-0 win.

 

Obviously if you made it a regular occurance of playing well & losing, it would losing its excitement and just become frustrating. So that alters things.