Hatem Ben Arfa

[Cronky]

The treatment the in-form Nolan is getting on this forum is quite sad to be honest.

 

I think it's fair. How in-form is he, really? People are thinking long-term. And there's absolutely no doubt that, long-term, Kevin Nolan isn't someone who's gonna comfortably keep our heads above water in this division. He just isn't good enough a midfielder to be anything more than a squad-filler.

 

His flaws are obvious in the same way that Shola's and Smith's are. That's why they're so heavily accentuated on the forum; particularly when he plays in such a crucial position.

 

He has done far, far more for this club than anyone on this forum ever gives him credit for.

 

He has the ability of the old pro, to get himself into the right place at the right time to get on the end of chances. Yes, that has been crucial in getting us out of the Championship and into our present position, so in that sense he hasn't been given enough credit.

 

However, in terms of the next step, he doesn't have the pace or the trickery to take us forward. I think Ben Arfa can do that, if he sorts himself out mentally.

 

It's unfair, but life isn't fair.

[Cajun]

As much as Nolan has done for us I think Carroll is more important, Ben Arfa imo would be a much better player to play off him so he gets the nod. As others have said though, the likes of Raylor, Guthrie, Smith and Nolan will still play a part.

[Jayson]

Ah, a facepalm. Always the most intellectual and convincing argument.

 

2 goals in 3 games, should have had an assist v wolves if carroll hadnt missed from 5 yards. Had 2 or 3 good chances saved also, coming off a similarly great goalscoring season in the championship to Carroll which may have renewed some confidence. On top of previous premier league experience in a side that finished in the top 6-8 seasons in a row, with him making an impressive contribution towards that.

 

And you think you're in a position to write off his worth as a player in the future with that amount of conviction?

 

You're talking bollocks.

[Dave]

Tend to agree. Ben Arfa undoubtedly has more natural talent but Nolan is doing well so far and it'd be harsh to just drop him.

[Parky]

What's sadder is when you sign a better player in 3 postions on the park and then start him on the bench. Bafra should start, I don't care where.

[Stu]

The treatment the in-form Nolan is getting on this forum is quite sad to be honest.

 

I think it's fair. How in-form is he, really? People are thinking long-term. And there's absolutely no doubt that, long-term, Kevin Nolan isn't someone who's gonna comfortably keep our heads above water in this division. He just isn't good enough a midfielder to be anything more than a squad-filler.

 

His flaws are obvious in the same way that Shola's and Smith's are. That's why they're so heavily accentuated on the forum; particularly when he plays in such a crucial position.

 

He has done far, far more for this club than anyone on this forum ever gives him credit for.

 

He has the ability of the old pro, to get himself into the right place at the right time to get on the end of chances. Yes, that has been crucial in getting us out of the Championship and into our present position, so in that sense he hasn't been given enough credit.

 

However, in terms of the next step, he doesn't have the pace or the trickery to take us forward. I think Ben Arfa can do that, if he sorts himself out mentally.

 

It's unfair, but life isn't fair.

 

It's not even that, as Yorkie points out - he's one of the lot that "took us down" (although it's debatable to what extent he was culpable, see Owen. M., Duff. D., et al), so his on pitch performances and successes 'should' be at a much better level.

 

He does far, far more for the club off the pitch than the majority give him recognition for, people chide him for being Hughton's "favourite" but he's one of the best club captains we've had (icons excluded). A genuine reason for the positive change around the club to the lad. If it influences a spot in the team for him then long may it continue while he's not costing us goals or games, at that point, you all may have reason to question his place.

[Cajun]

Good post Stu even if I do still lean towards Ben Arfa taking his place

[Dave]

What's sadder is when you sign a better player in 3 postions on the park and then start him on the bench. Bafra should start, I don't care where.

 

I think it's more the idea that it's automatically Nolan who should be dropped that seems a bit at odds with who's actually doing the business so far. Ben Arfa will start on the bench against Blackpool.

[Cajun]

I really can't see Ben Arfa playing the majority of games for us anywhere but a central position. He cited that as one of the reasons for joining didn't he?

 

Can't see us testing his character

[Yorkie]

Ah, a facepalm. Always the most intellectual and convincing argument.

 

2 goals in 3 games, should have had an assist v wolves if carroll hadnt missed from 5 yards. Had 2 or 3 good chances saved also, coming off a similarly great goalscoring season in the championship to Carroll which may have renewed some confidence. On top of previous premier league experience in a side that finished in the top 6-8 seasons in a row, with him making an impressive contribution towards that.

 

And you think you're in a position to write off his worth as a player in the future with that amount of conviction?

 

You're talking bollocks.

 

If you read back through my post i said, as a midfielder, he isn't good enough. As a striker he's a decent member to have in the squad. I'm only repeating myself but his limitations are clear for all to see, and he'll be countered with ease against the majority of teams in this league. He's doing alright at the moment but i'm delighted we've got Ben Arfa. Hopefully he'll be in the side sooner rather than later.

 

Nolan scored a lot of goals last season and was a kingpin in our revival. He had a good year and i'm relieved that he did so - but for him (and the others that remained) - that was the bare minimum we deserved. Every single member of the squad that took us down owed us a promotion.

 

Nolan was one of the players with enough heart to actually see that through, and i thank him for that, but when it comes to this season - there's no room for sentiment. I can't deny that he's doing a passable job but there's no doubting we've got players in the squad who are better than him. He's second choice this year.

[Yorkie]

The treatment the in-form Nolan is getting on this forum is quite sad to be honest.

 

I think it's fair. How in-form is he, really? People are thinking long-term. And there's absolutely no doubt that, long-term, Kevin Nolan isn't someone who's gonna comfortably keep our heads above water in this division. He just isn't good enough a midfielder to be anything more than a squad-filler.

 

His flaws are obvious in the same way that Shola's and Smith's are. That's why they're so heavily accentuated on the forum; particularly when he plays in such a crucial position.

 

He has done far, far more for this club than anyone on this forum ever gives him credit for.

 

He has the ability of the old pro, to get himself into the right place at the right time to get on the end of chances. Yes, that has been crucial in getting us out of the Championship and into our present position, so in that sense he hasn't been given enough credit.

 

However, in terms of the next step, he doesn't have the pace or the trickery to take us forward. I think Ben Arfa can do that, if he sorts himself out mentally.

 

It's unfair, but life isn't fair.

 

It's not even that, as Yorkie points out - he's one of the lot that "took us down" (although it's debatable to what extent he was culpable, see Owen. M., Duff. D., et al), so his on pitch performances and successes 'should' be at a much better level.

 

He does far, far more for the club off the pitch than the majority give him recognition for, people chide him for being Hughton's "favourite" but he's one of the best club captains we've had (icons excluded). A genuine reason for the positive change around the club to the lad. If it influences a spot in the team for him then long may it continue while he's not costing us goals or games, at that point, you all may have reason to question his place.

 

He does have some stand-out attributes that aren't always recognised - but the squad has been improved. We could be a better team without him in it, still, even if he is playing alright.

[Ronaldo]

Agree with everything Yorkie has said.

[Gallowgate Toon]

If it ain't broke don't fix it, we're not really in a luxury position to start changing things round when we have a good chance of winning, survival is of the highest importance. Nolan will start on Saturday and that's fine, he deserves it. As much as i want Ben Arfa in the team and know he's a much better player, he shouldn't be allowed to walk in to the side but i know he will get the chance.

 

Nolan's lucky that this week we're playing crap opposition, his days are numbered.

[Guest palnese]

 

Nolan's lucky that this week we're playing crap opposition, his days are numbered.

 

Even if he scores 10-12 goals this season?

[Gallowgate Toon]

 

Nolan's lucky that this week we're playing crap opposition, his days are numbered.

 

Even if he scores 10-12 goals this season?

He won't, he's not good enough. He's too predictable and slow and will be easily snuffed by better opposition. Nolan provides nothing else, Ben Arfa will get assists as well as chipping in with some goals and he has good delivery from set pieces. Ben Arfa is twice the player Kevin Nolan could ever dream of being and will offer us a lot more as a team.

[Stu]

He's too predictable and slow and will be easily snuffed by better opposition. Nolan provides nothing else, Ben Arfa will get assists as well as chipping in with some goals and he has good delivery from set pieces. Ben Arfa is twice the player Kevin Nolan could ever dream of being and will offer us a lot more as a team.

 

 

He has the ability of the old pro, to get himself into the right place at the right time to get on the end of chances. Yes, that has been crucial in getting us out of the Championship and into our present position, so in that sense he hasn't been given enough credit.

 

However, in terms of the next step, he doesn't have the pace or the trickery to take us forward. I think Ben Arfa can do that, if he sorts himself out mentally.

 

It's unfair, but life isn't fair.

 

It's not even that, as Yorkie points out - he's one of the lot that "took us down" (although it's debatable to what extent he was culpable, see Owen. M., Duff. D., et al), so his on pitch performances and successes 'should' be at a much better level.

 

He does far, far more for the club off the pitch than the majority give him recognition for, people chide him for being Hughton's "favourite" but he's one of the best club captains we've had (icons excluded). A genuine reason for the positive change around the club to the lad. If it influences a spot in the team for him then long may it continue while he's not costing us goals or games, at that point, you all may have reason to question his place.

 

He does have some stand-out attributes that aren't always recognised - but the squad has been improved. We could be a better team without him in it, still, even if he is playing alright.

 

Sometimes the sum can be greater than the individual parts (see: NUFC 2008/09, for the inverse), I believe Nolan to be a factor in the team overachieving. Don't agree with dropping players just because someone is a more skillful/technically better player than them.

[Guest palnese]

 

Nolan's lucky that this week we're playing crap opposition, his days are numbered.

 

Even if he scores 10-12 goals this season?

He won't, he's not good enough. He's too predictable and slow and will be easily snuffed by better opposition. Nolan provides nothing else, Ben Arfa will get assists as well as chipping in with some goals and he has good delivery from set pieces. Ben Arfa is twice the player Kevin Nolan could ever dream of being and will offer us a lot more as a team.

 

I agree, he's slow and limited, but he showed us last season that he's a very clever player. His positioning in the box is top class and he is a decent finisher as well. Still, Ben Arfa is a much better player. It's nice to have players with different qualities to choose from.

[Gallowgate Toon]

 

Nolan's lucky that this week we're playing crap opposition, his days are numbered.

 

Even if he scores 10-12 goals this season?

He won't, he's not good enough. He's too predictable and slow and will be easily snuffed by better opposition. Nolan provides nothing else, Ben Arfa will get assists as well as chipping in with some goals and he has good delivery from set pieces. Ben Arfa is twice the player Kevin Nolan could ever dream of being and will offer us a lot more as a team.

 

I agree, he's slow and limited, but he showed us last season that he's a very clever player. His positioning in the box is top class and he is a decent finisher as well. Still, Ben Arfa is a much better player. It's nice to have players with different qualities to choose from.

Don't get me wrong i think Nolan is a decent player in certain aspects, he scored some important goals last season and is deserving of a start on Saturday. You say he's a clever player and he's certainly not thick in terms of a football brain but you have to consider the intelligence of the opposition last season. Defenders are more about physicality in the Championship not intelligence otherwise they would be playing in the big league(s) the decent to good CBs in this division will be stuck to Nolan's arse throughout the game and what does he have in his locker to shake them off?

 

I like him, he's a great bloke and it's a shame we have found somebody potentially a lot better so soon (for him) but I'm looking at it from the angle of the opposition we face over the rest of the season. Who would i rather be up against? A quick, highly skillful and dangerous player who gives me so many different things to think about or a player who is slow, fairly easy to track and i know won't turn me.

 

He'll get a few games this season, regardless of Ben Arfa, i think Hughton will want him to play in the tough away games and he'll get plenty of substitute appearances as well.

[Jayson]

To early to judge. Cant say Nolan wont get 10, he could already have had 5 in two games.

 

Hopefully Ben Arfa comes into the side and improves us further. But i wouldnt write Nolan off as not having much use, his positioning inside the box opens up chances for himself and others & hes continued to look useful in the prem.

[cubaricho]

To early to judge. Cant say Nolan wont get 10, he could already have had 5 in two games.

 

Hopefully Ben Arfa comes into the side and improves us further. But i wouldnt write Nolan off as not having much use, his positioning inside the box opens up chances for himself and others & hes continued to look useful in the prem.

 

Agreed.

 

I hope Ben Arfa doesn't walk into the team but starts as a 60ish minute sub for Nolan.  Let Nolan work his socks off for an hour and prove that he should be there and then let Ben Arfa show us if he has anything to prove.

 

At the most basic level, it's really Nolan's place to lose.  If he keeps scoring goals I don't see Hughton dropping him.

[James]

This club needs a competitive culture where no-one is guaranteed a place, but if you are in form, you play. Nolan is in form, he plays. It is destructive to team morale to drop one of the best performers because it sends a message that good performances don't get rewarded, and this will mean an increase in complacency.

 

Nolan has so far this season, and last season shown himself to be a very penetrative player who moves very well in andaround the penalty area with good technique and can find team mates in narrow spaces or put a good effort on goal himself. His movement will drag away players that would otherwise be doubling up on Carroll. These attributes make him a good partner for Carroll, plus he can fill up the midfield in defensive situations.

 

Meanwhile I don't think Ben Arfa fits the creative midfielder tag that people are giving him. His career at two league winning clubs is not littered with goals and assists. He seems moreof an explosive player, and while these types of players can benefit our team much like Dyer did at his prime, we are still going to have to rely on Carroll, Nolan and Barton to do the stuff that is important for us to get results. Therefore I think that if he is committed, his explosiveness on the wings in a slightly free role will get the best out of his more penetrative team mates.

 

I would say Ben Arfa for Jonas would eventually be the most effective and balanced swap.

[Parky]

Ah, a facepalm. Always the most intellectual and convincing argument.

 

2 goals in 3 games, should have had an assist v wolves if carroll hadnt missed from 5 yards. Had 2 or 3 good chances saved also, coming off a similarly great goalscoring season in the championship to Carroll which may have renewed some confidence. On top of previous premier league experience in a side that finished in the top 6-8 seasons in a row, with him making an impressive contribution towards that.

 

And you think you're in a position to write off his worth as a player in the future with that amount of conviction?

 

You're talking bollocks.

 

If you read back through my post i said, as a midfielder, he isn't good enough. As a striker he's a decent member to have in the squad. I'm only repeating myself but his limitations are clear for all to see, and he'll be countered with ease against the majority of teams in this league. He's doing alright at the moment but i'm delighted we've got Ben Arfa. Hopefully he'll be in the side sooner rather than later.

 

Nolan scored a lot of goals last season and was a kingpin in our revival. He had a good year and i'm relieved that he did so - but for him (and the others that remained) - that was the bare minimum we deserved. Every single member of the squad that took us down owed us a promotion.

 

Nolan was one of the players with enough heart to actually see that through, and i thank him for that, but when it comes to this season - there's no room for sentiment. I can't deny that he's doing a passable job but there's no doubting we've got players in the squad who are better than him. He's second choice this year.

 

Mangers like Mourinho are successful cause they are ruthless, Nolan has done his bit and has been instrumental in our recovery, but quie simply Bafra is on another planet and should slot into the side. It might well be that CH drops either winger, but for me Bafra should play behind the striker.

[Guest andrew]

Tbf HBA is completely untested at this level. He may look super good at the French league, but he may take longer to settle in here. Nolan should remain in the side like Jayson & Dave said. Dropping him straight away for ben arfa would not be the right way to man manage a team.

[Mr Logic]

Keegan was ruthless, never seemed to hurt his teams spirit either.

[Gallowgate Toon]

This club needs a competitive culture where no-one is guaranteed a place, but if you are in form, you play. Nolan is in form, he plays. It is destructive to team morale to drop one of the best performers because it sends a message that good performances don't get rewarded, and this will mean an increase in complacency.

 

Nolan has so far this season, and last season shown himself to be a very penetrative player who moves very well in andaround the penalty area with good technique and can find team mates in narrow spaces or put a good effort on goal himself. His movement will drag away players that would otherwise be doubling up on Carroll. These attributes make him a good partner for Carroll, plus he can fill up the midfield in defensive situations.

 

Meanwhile I don't think Ben Arfa fits the creative midfielder tag that people are giving him. His career at two league winning clubs is not littered with goals and assists. He seems moreof an explosive player, and while these types of players can benefit our team much like Dyer did at his prime, we are still going to have to rely on Carroll, Nolan and Barton to do the stuff that is important for us to get results. Therefore I think that if he is committed, his explosiveness on the wings in a slightly free role will get the best out of his more penetrative team mates.

 

I would say Ben Arfa for Jonas would eventually be the most effective and balanced swap.

I agree with the first part of your post, we should definitely start with the same side until results aren't going our way, then it's time to change things around.

 

On Ben Arfa, he's never been given a 'chief' playmaker role and the problem with looking at stats is that you never get the full picture. He could have played a defence splitting pass to a forward who then passed it along the penalty area to another player who scores, Ben Arfa wouldn't be credited for the assist but he would have made the goal. The same goes for a mazy run etc or a great cross, these factors are just as important as the assist but they aren't 'counted'.

 

Kevin Nolan doesn't offer any of the above as i've never seen him play a great pass or skin a player. If we're going to go to the next level and push a bit higher we need players to play through that have vision and something different. Every good team needs a great playmaker, we have a decent one in Joey Barton but there's no variety, we have nobody in the middle that can create that extra spark which we will need. Nolan is useful in terms of survival, Ben Arfa is someone who can take us to the next level.