Heron Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Ben Arfa is no good when we're defending... That's why he plays up front. Defending starts from the front. Just as attacking starts from the back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Logic Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 The ball coming immediately back doesn't give you time to re-group and re-position. Free kicks do. So even though this would be the case, it would by us time and break up play. He wouldn't be offside every time anyways, and it would be a different outlet, even if it is only for the last half an hour. The breaking up play is no good when we're attacking. Ben Arfa is no good when we're defending... Fantastic outlet for a quick counter if the ball gets to him or Obertan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 The ball coming immediately back doesn't give you time to re-group and re-position. Free kicks do. So even though this would be the case, it would by us time and break up play. He wouldn't be offside every time anyways, and it would be a different outlet, even if it is only for the last half an hour. The breaking up play is no good when we're attacking. Ben Arfa is no good when we're defending... Fantastic outlet for a quick counter if the ball gets to him or Obertan. As is Best, if he can hold the ball up for the midfield/Ba to get up with him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Defending starts from the front. Just as attacking starts from the back. You usually defend at the front by attacking, Ben Arfa is much better at that than Best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Logic Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 The ball coming immediately back doesn't give you time to re-group and re-position. Free kicks do. So even though this would be the case, it would by us time and break up play. He wouldn't be offside every time anyways, and it would be a different outlet, even if it is only for the last half an hour. The breaking up play is no good when we're attacking. Ben Arfa is no good when we're defending... Fantastic outlet for a quick counter if the ball gets to him or Obertan. As is Best, if he can hold the ball up for the midfield/Ba to get up with him. Errm.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 The ball coming immediately back doesn't give you time to re-group and re-position. Free kicks do. So even though this would be the case, it would by us time and break up play. He wouldn't be offside every time anyways, and it would be a different outlet, even if it is only for the last half an hour. The breaking up play is no good when we're attacking. Ben Arfa is no good when we're defending... Fantastic outlet for a quick counter if the ball gets to him or Obertan. As is Best, if he can hold the ball up for the midfield/Ba to get up with him. Errm.. The likes of Obertan will be breaking from the same positions so whether you have someone who can run at two or three defenders alone, or someone who can hold the ball up is irrelevant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Defending starts from the front. Just as attacking starts from the back. You usually defend at the front by attacking, Ben Arfa is much better at that than Best. Not if he isn't retaining possession, which is what Best is good at. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpal78 Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 That clip showed more of his vision than his skill. Seems like he wasn't using his sudden acceleration to get pass players, not sure if that was deliberate or just a matter of conditioning and fitness. Hope he hasn't lost that attribute coz that was what made him so good Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
summerof69 Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 That video was class. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Not if he isn't retaining possession, which is what Best is good at. Best is not good at retaining possession. What he’s better at than Ben Arfa is battering the opposition, that’s no good when he’s giving away free kicks as we lose possession. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 That video also showed how scared De Jong was to even go near him on multiple occasions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Not if he isn't retaining possession, which is what Best is good at. Best is not good at retaining possession. What he’s better at than Ben Arfa is battering the opposition, that’s no good when he’s giving away free kicks as we lose possession. Ben Arfa, thus far, has shown no improvement on Bests lack of ball retention if that is the case. They will both lose the ball at times as a result of those surrounding them, or lack of. Best has done no worse than Ben Arfa so far this season and has scored and made more goals. If attackers are based on assists and goals scored then Best is the man to choose. That's not to say he's a better player, but he is in better form. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 That clip showed more of his vision than his skill. Seems like he wasn't using his sudden acceleration to get pass players, not sure if that was deliberate or just a matter of conditioning and fitness. Hope he hasn't lost that attribute coz that was what made him so good The build up play for Ba's saved shot was as good as anything we've played this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Ben Arfa, thus far, has shown no improvement on Bests lack of ball retention if that is the case. They will both lose the ball at times as a result of those surrounding them, or lack of. Best has done no worse than Ben Arfa so far this season and has scored and made more goals. If attackers are based on assists and goals scored then Best is the man to choose. That's not to say he's a better player, but he is in better form. Ben Arfa is coming back from a long injury and is getting better with games, apart from giving away a stupid penalty he played really well and was at the centre of most things we did well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Ben Arfa, thus far, has shown no improvement on Bests lack of ball retention if that is the case. They will both lose the ball at times as a result of those surrounding them, or lack of. Best has done no worse than Ben Arfa so far this season and has scored and made more goals. If attackers are based on assists and goals scored then Best is the man to choose. That's not to say he's a better player, but he is in better form. Ben Arfa is coming back from a long injury and is getting better with games, apart from giving away a stupid penalty he played really well and was at the centtre of most things we did well. Most attacking things we did well. I'm not saying Ben Arfa was poor. I just think Best is better suited for our game against Man United. Ben Arfa then has a string of winnable games to be bedded in properly and let his football really flow. Which would be great for everyone concerned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Ben Arfa is a mighty King and we are his subjects. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Most attacking things we did well. I'm not saying Ben Arfa was poor. I just think Best is better suited for our game against Man United. Ben Arfa then has a string of winnable games to be bedded in properly and let his football really flow. Which would be great for everyone concerned. Why is Best better suited to playing against Man U? I personally think they'll read him like a book if Best plays then Ferdinand will dominate him. I think Ben Arfa will rip the piss out of a slow but experienced player like Ferdinand, something I don’t expect that Best is capable of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENKAAA Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Ben Arfa is a mighty King and we are his subjects. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Most attacking things we did well. I'm not saying Ben Arfa was poor. I just think Best is better suited for our game against Man United. Ben Arfa then has a string of winnable games to be bedded in properly and let his football really flow. Which would be great for everyone concerned. Why is Best better suited to playing against Man U? I personally think they'll read him like a book if Best plays then Ferdinand will dominate him. I think Ben Arfa will rip the p*ss out of a slow but experienced player like Ferdinand, something I don’t expect that Best is capable of. We have someone who is quick and positions themselves in goal scoring positions in Ba, and whilst Ben Arfa will pose more threat in terms of pace and imagination, Best will bring our wingers and midfield more into play. If we get our wingers and furthermore central pairing into the game, we will have a high potential of winning. Tiote and Cabaye can match anyone on their day I reckon, and by bringing these into the game we push them back into their own half. If we can do this, they will struggle to score past us, because defensively we're well organised. What's to say Ben Arfa would be up against Ferdinand? He could be up against Midfielders if he's sat in 'the hole'. I've seen it many a time, that although someone is supposedly 'up front', they're marked by midfielders because of the nature of their play, i.e. dropping in and out of the typical forwards position. All in all, it's a matter of opinion - none of our players have let us down this season, and based on the rest of the season I'd say play Ben Arfa. He got his chance and took it on Saturday. Now it's up to Best to force his way into the team. Based on playing styles though, as previously mentioned, I'd have Best in and play Ben Arfa in the upcoming winnable (and especially at home) games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Ben Arfa beat Man City's backline two or three times I would bet on him to do similar against Man United's he has to start. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 What would people expect their team to be against us? Despite their whining about injuries they have a lot of options. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Ben Arfa is easily the most skilful player we’ve had up front since Beardsley and I can’t understand why any of our fans would rather play Best ahead of him, it doesn’t make any sense at any level. I want to see a winning team but I also want to see players with skill and we now have a few of them. We have a very good keeper who is only going to get better, we have a central defender who holds the back 4 together like glue. We have a central midfield that I would think most teams in the division would take off us. We have a very good and hard working left winger who works his nuts off all along the left side of the pitch. We have a forward in Ba who can be clinical and we have a genuinely class player in Ben Arfa. Ben Arfa is the type of player that we rarely see up here, he just oozes class and I’d buy a season ticket just to watch him. I’ve seen it with Tony Green, Kevin Keegan, Terry Mac, Peter Beardsley (twice), Gazza and Ginola and possibly a few others who have had something different about them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Ben Arfa ahead of Best without a shadow of doubt imho. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 And he'll prove that he's ten times the player that Best is or ever will be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I can see the merit in starting Best (strength and hold play which could prove useful against Vidic, also works his arse off) but really Ben Arfa is a better option in terms of his attacking play/skills and vision. If Hatem can match/better his display against City in the Man U game, he'll more than likely give Man U's defence a tough time. Might even score. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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