Cheick Tioté (1986–2017)

[Kanj]

We've won games without Colo/Tiote/Colo+Tiote. Ben Arfa's the most important player by a mile imo.

 

I'd agree with that.

[Tiresias]

Without him we are so passive out of possession we have too much of a habit of just retreating to the edge of the area. Tiote can put pressure on and interrupt passing moves anywhere on the pitch. At his best he has a habit of seeming like he's everywhere on the pitch

[Mole_Toonfan]

Hard to tell who's the most important tbh, we have had to deal without Tiote often so we know how we deal with his loss.

 

We have never had Cabaye, Cisse, Ba etc etc out for prolonged periods( well except for 3 games during AFCON is suppose) so we don't know how it would effect the team.

 

I personally think we would struggle just as much but for different reasons.

[The College Dropout]

Last year Guthrie stepped up well most of the time when Yohan was out.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Cabaye was only out for like 4 games last season, hardly enough to judge whether we would struggle without him long term or not.

 

Tiote on the other hand has missed 12 games in his first season, 14 last season and only started once so far this season so we have an idea about how much we miss him.

 

We don't with Cabaye.

[bowlingcrofty]

We've won games without Colo/Tiote/Colo+Tiote. Ben Arfa's the most important player by a mile imo.

 

100%.

[Rich]

We've won a lot of games without Ben Arfa too like

[Tiresias]

Without Ben Arfa it is harder to wank during the game though   

[Jack Flash]

We've won a lot of games without Ben Arfa too like

 

We were unbeaten for 3 months

 

There was a criticism of Swansea recently about how teams can just go through the middle of them as they don't have a "destroyer" type of midfielder and that's the same as us recently. Anita doesn't have that aggression to stop teams like Tiote does and we've looked much better when Perch has moved into that spot.

[nuneaton]

We've won a lot of games without Ben Arfa too like

 

We were unbeaten for 3 months

 

There was a criticism of Swansea recently about how teams can just go through the middle of them as they don't have a "destroyer" type of midfielder and that's the same as us recently. Anita doesn't have that aggression to stop teams like Tiote does and we've looked much better when Perch has moved into that spot.

 

quite correct

[Mole_Toonfan]

Depends on how you play and what sort of team you are tbh.....

 

Bayern, Barca, Madrid etc etc don't really have a Tiote either and nor do majority of the top teams.

 

If you play posession heavy then midfielders with good distribution, intelligent positioning etc etc then destroyers are not that important in fact they can be a hindrance.

 

Tiote works so well for us because of our style of play but if we developed a style of play that was possession heavy then Anita could do the job just as well.

 

 

[Tiresias]

I think Real and Barca do sort of have that role but it's done by CBs instead, Pepe and Puyol seem that sort of player, play high up pitch when needed, great in possession but break up play too.

[Mole_Toonfan]

I think Real and Barca do sort of have that role but it's done by CBs instead, Pepe and Puyol seem that sort of player, play high up pitch when needed, great in possession but break up play too.

 

Aye you do need someone to break up play but not what i meant, if your more possession dominant then you don't need a rampant bull dog to blow out fires like Tiote does, having DM's who just constantly intercept passes due to excellent positioning is just as effective.

 

At end of day it all depends on what type of team you are, for us Tiote is probably about as perfect as it gets but for teams that are dominant with possession then he probably would'nt be as effective as he gives the ball away a lot.

 

Still break play up but doing it in a quieter fashion, for example Barry did an impeccable job at this for City last year.

[Tiresias]

I know what you mean, but that's a lot down to a team commited to pressing all over the pitch, rather than putting it all on some of the players, think most clubs without really deep squads struggle to keep whole squads fit for that. I do agree though, with a team that can keep ball much calmer you don't need such a bulldog, but think that also the Keane / Tiote role is more suited to the English league than spanish, going to get away with more tackles, the game is more open and fast paced. I think you can be a 'top team' with a tiote type, just maybe more of a counter attacking style than possession based.

[Yorkie]

We've won a lot of games without Ben Arfa too like

 

We've been almost completely dependant on him so far this season; if he's not scoring then he's providing assists. Right now, with the sketchy form of Cisse and Cabaye and Ba being desperately, desperately unhappy at the club - he's our most important player.

[Mole_Toonfan]

I know what you mean, but that's a lot down to a team commited to pressing all over the pitch, rather than putting it all on some of the players, think most clubs without really deep squads struggle to keep whole squads fit for that. I do agree though, with a team that can keep ball much calmer you don't need such a bulldog, but think that also the Keane / Tiote role is more suited to the English league than spanish, going to get away with more tackles, the game is more open and fast paced. I think you can be a 'top team' with a tiote type, just maybe more of a counter attacking style than possession based.

 

aye

 

We've won a lot of games without Ben Arfa too like

 

We've been almost completely dependant on him so far this season; if he's not scoring then he's providing assists. Right now, with the sketchy form of Cisse and Cabaye and Ba being desperately, desperately unhappy at the club - he's our most important player.

 

While that's true, if Ben Arfa was out for long periods im confident we would just change the style of play to compensate and still get results.

[ATB]

And why can´t you be a great team with Titoé? He is good with the ball too.

[Guest bimpy474]

And why can´t you be a great team with Titoé? He is good with the ball too.

 

Aye, he isn't just a ball winner, although that is his stand out ability..

[Skirge]

Was meant to be a Tiote shaped hole in Rooney

 

http://s18.postimage.org/jwsdjmhg7/united1.jpg

[Guest sicko2ndbest]

MVP imo

 

Positionally, powerwise, influence

[Mr. Snrub]

Great to have him back.  Bossed it until he got took off.

 

Rooney still scared of him. 

[Rich]

We've won a lot of games without Ben Arfa too like

 

We've been almost completely dependant on him so far this season; if he's not scoring then he's providing assists. Right now, with the sketchy form of Cisse and Cabaye and Ba being desperately, desperately unhappy at the club - he's our most important player.

 

 

Didn't disagree with the point at all, but the "won games without" line was proper bollocks. He's become the main man here, as many expected he would.

[Yorkie]

We've won a lot of games without Ben Arfa too like

 

We've been almost completely dependant on him so far this season; if he's not scoring then he's providing assists. Right now, with the sketchy form of Cisse and Cabaye and Ba being desperately, desperately unhappy at the club - he's our most important player.

 

 

Didn't disagree with the point at all, but the "won games without" line was proper bollocks. He's become the main man here, as many expected he would.

 

How was it? The point i was making was i don't think we'd have won as many points without Ben Arfa (in the context of this season); as there's no one who can come in and do what he does. Colo and Tiote, whilst extremely important for us to play our best football, are more 'replaceable'. I'm not saying Williamson is anywhere near as good as Colo, by the by.

 

It doesn't really matter anyway. They're all essential players if we're actually fighting for 4th place.

[Rich]

Aye, it doesn't matter like. I'm sorry for not seeing that point in what you posted initially.

 

Ben Arfa > Coloccini > Tiote for me, at the moment at least. Feels mental to be discounting Ba and Cisse though

[Yorkie]

Ba and Cisse are both wonderful strikers at their best, but i honestly think i could bag a couple playing in a side with Ben Arfa.