Strongest Eleven

[Yorkie]

Krul

 

Simpson Williamson Coloccini Enrique

 

Barton   Tiote Nolan   Gutierrez

 

Ben Arfa Carroll

 

Ben Arfa's only an out-and-out striker for artistic/symmetrical purposes. Playing him anywhere other than an advanced central position is a complete waste of a brilliantly gifted footballer. Jonas is a passenger these days but you still need him there for that crucial bit of balance and pace.

[Mowen]

I'd go for the same team as Yorkie only I'd be very tempted to put Routledge ahead of Jonas.

[Yorkie]

Both equally toothless product-wise, but i've more faith in Jonas to beat his man, plus he actually has a grain of compatability with players around him.

[Ronaldo]

Harper

 

Simpson   Taylor   Coloccini   Enrique

 

Barton   Tiote   Nolan   Ben Arfa

 

Carroll   ??

[Yorkie]

Exactly. Why put up with one of Ranger/Lovenkrands/Best/Xisco/Ameobi (which a question mark quite aptly represents), when you can stick Ben Arfa off Carroll and just keep Jonas in the side?

 

I know Jonas isn't everyone's cup of tea but you have to have him there, currently. Ben Arfa isn't a winger anyway.

[JH]

Exactly. Why put up with one of Ranger/Lovenkrands/Best/Xisco/Ameobi (which a question mark quite aptly represents), when you can stick Ben Arfa off Carroll and just keep Jonas in the side?

 

I know Jonas isn't everyone's cup of tea but you have to have him there, currently. Ben Arfa isn't a winger anyway.

 

Because we're best in a 4-4-2 IMO.

[Yorkie]

Ben Arfa as the 1 in the 4-4-1-1 is a different kettle of fish altogether imo. He isn't a winger. In the Stoke home game we were completely unbalanced cos B.A was doing what he did best - floating all around the final third trying to make clever passes.

 

If we're keeping Barton on the right, which we absolutely should, we need to have an out-and-out winger on the left. That's why the January priorities go striker, then left-winger.

 

I dunno why the fuck i'm even talking about Ben Arfa but there you go.

[Ronaldo]

You don't have a clue about Ben Arfa, LW could easily be his best position.

 

As for Jonas, I don't want him in the side. I'd rather Routledge, or Barton, or even Ranger play on the LW.

[Yorkie]

On the evidence of the two games i've seen him in, and what Chris Hughton said around the time he signed, it looks like he'd be more useful through the middle. It'd be more beneficial to have a balanced side with genuine danger upfront/CM. Jonas is far from perfect but he can still run at players and beat a man, i'd still keep him in the side.

[JH]

Ben Arfa as the 1 in the 4-4-1-1 is a different kettle of fish altogether imo. He isn't a winger. In the Stoke home game we were completely unbalanced cos B.A was doing what he did best - floating all around the final third trying to make clever passes.

 

If we're keeping Barton on the right, which we absolutely should, we need to have an out-and-out winger on the left. That's why the January priorities go striker, then left-winger.

 

I dunno why the f*** i'm even talking about Ben Arfa but there you go.

 

I understand the balance thing, I don't think HBA/Barton is the best mix for the wings, but I don't think Carroll upfront alone works, whether it's Nolan behind him or Ben Arfa. The same problem remains - the massive gap between midfield and attack, Nolan can't bridge it and HBA has no interest in bridging it - that's why I think he works best at LM and Nolan works best in CM.

 

With two strikers up top, we seem to get the best out of Carroll and the midfield don't get too detached from our strikeforce either. Nolan also seems to play better with two proper forwards in front of him. We get a decent forward in and what Ronaldo posted is probably our best chance of success this season IMO. (although I'd probably play Willicini).

[Mowen]

Both equally toothless product-wise, but i've more faith in Jonas to beat his man, plus he actually has a grain of compatability with players around him.

 

I'm thinking about everyone on top of their game, I think Wayne offers more. He'd at least cut inside and shoot. Jonas's crossing is of a similar technique to mine given that we're both right footed and play on the left, obviously he's more than a million times better than me but he uses the same technique of just getting his foot under the ball and getting it in the area rather than trying to direct it in any way.

[Mick]

If Ben Arfa does make it back this season I can't see him being used anywhere other than the left wing. Don't think Hughton would have done differently either.

 

It doesn't matter where he starts, he'll just go where he wants anyway.

[Hughesy]

Routledge on the left would be an unmitigated disaster.  He's bad enough on the right.

[Mick]

You don't have a clue about Ben Arfa, LW could easily be his best position.

 

As for Jonas, I don't want him in the side. I'd rather Routledge, or Barton, or even Ranger play on the LW.

 

I've seen quite a bit of Ben Arfa and I don't think he'll stick to the wing at all, he'll pop up all over the place.

[Ronaldo]

Routledge on the left would be an unmitigated disaster.  He's bad enough on the right.

 

What's to say he wouldn't be better on the left? He does his best work coming inside and working the channels, anway.

[Yorkie]

Ben Arfa as the 1 in the 4-4-1-1 is a different kettle of fish altogether imo. He isn't a winger. In the Stoke home game we were completely unbalanced cos B.A was doing what he did best - floating all around the final third trying to make clever passes.

 

If we're keeping Barton on the right, which we absolutely should, we need to have an out-and-out winger on the left. That's why the January priorities go striker, then left-winger.

 

I dunno why the f*** i'm even talking about Ben Arfa but there you go.

 

I understand the balance thing, I don't think HBA/Barton is the best mix for the wings, but I don't think Carroll upfront alone works, whether it's Nolan behind him or Ben Arfa. The same problem remains - the massive gap between midfield and attack, Nolan can't bridge it and HBA has no interest in bridging it - that's why I think he works best at LM and Nolan works best in CM.

 

With two strikers up top, we seem to get the best out of Carroll and the midfield don't get too detached from our strikeforce either. Nolan also seems to play better with two proper forwards in front of him. We get a decent forward in and what Ronaldo posted is probably our best chance of success this season IMO. (although I'd probably play Willicini).

 

Seriously? He looks like the perfect sort of player to link midfield to attack. Excellent with the ball at his feet and generally looking for a through ball. The difference between him and Nolan in that role would be astronomical, imo.

[Mick]

What's to say he wouldn't be better on the left? He does his best work coming inside and working the channels anway.

 

I really don't think he'd be disciplined enough to hold his position, he goes looking for the ball if it's not coming to him.  If we were feeding him enough then it might work.  It's not that I don't think it would be his best position based on his skills, it's more I don't think he'd be comfortable hanging around and waiting.

 

I think he would be brilliant in a free roll if we were in a position to give him that and let him float around the front and drop back at times to pick up the ball to take forward.  I can't wait until we have the problem of finding a position for him because he could replace most of our forwards and midfielders and fit in.

[JH]

Ben Arfa as the 1 in the 4-4-1-1 is a different kettle of fish altogether imo. He isn't a winger. In the Stoke home game we were completely unbalanced cos B.A was doing what he did best - floating all around the final third trying to make clever passes.

 

If we're keeping Barton on the right, which we absolutely should, we need to have an out-and-out winger on the left. That's why the January priorities go striker, then left-winger.

 

I dunno why the f*** i'm even talking about Ben Arfa but there you go.

 

I understand the balance thing, I don't think HBA/Barton is the best mix for the wings, but I don't think Carroll upfront alone works, whether it's Nolan behind him or Ben Arfa. The same problem remains - the massive gap between midfield and attack, Nolan can't bridge it and HBA has no interest in bridging it - that's why I think he works best at LM and Nolan works best in CM.

 

With two strikers up top, we seem to get the best out of Carroll and the midfield don't get too detached from our strikeforce either. Nolan also seems to play better with two proper forwards in front of him. We get a decent forward in and what Ronaldo posted is probably our best chance of success this season IMO. (although I'd probably play Willicini).

 

Seriously? He looks like the perfect sort of player to link midfield to attack. Excellent with the ball at his feet and generally looking for a through ball. The difference between him and Nolan in that role would be astronomical, imo.

 

I can't be arsed to go track down the post, but I remember saying something similar after HBA's game in the centre (Everton wasn't it?) about how the same problems remained about the massive gap between Carroll and the centre of midfield.

 

The problem (and I wouldn't really say it was something wrong about him, just wrong for the position he'd be in) with HBA is that he's very much an attacking player - he looks forward, always goes forward and someone in that 'hole' needs to be a player that can sometimes have his back to goal and bring the CMs behind him into play - something which I think HBA has no interest in doing - like I say, not necessarily a bad thing, just not ideal for that position - I just think his play looks more suited to a winger who cuts inside, or an out and out forward.

[Conjo]

Krul

Simpson-Williamson-Coloccini-Enrique

Barton-Nolan-Tiote-Gutierrez

Ben Arfa

Carroll

 

 

With Ben Arfa in the team, in a free role, I think Gutierrez will get more space, and not being closed down by two players all the time. It also plays better to Ben Arfas skills not locking him down to the wing. We don't have a good partner to Carroll, so Ben Arfa and Nolan supporting him is a better choice.

[Hughesy]

Routledge on the left would be an unmitigated disaster.  He's bad enough on the right.

 

What's to say he wouldn't be better on the left? He does his best work coming inside and working the channels, anway.

 

I realise you are a fan of Routledge but I just don't see what Routledge offers on the right let alone the left.  He has one trick (flick the ball inside and then shift it outside) that sometimes comes off, but is worked out by any left back with a semblance of intelligence.  He wouldn't even be able to do this on the left, so his ability to beat a man would be diminished.

 

However, my biggest problems with Routledge are:

 

1)  His technique is awful.  You might criticise Jonas, but at least he can trap a ball.  You play it into Routledge's feet and more often than not the ball bounces away to the opposition.  If he tries to lay it off first time, the ball ends up looping up to no-one in particular.

 

2)  His positioning and awareness is dire.  Bearing in mind the above, I cannot understand why he always positions himself to receive the ball with his back to goal.  He is not strong enough or skilful enough to do this.  He has to work this out and learn to receive the ball facing the correct way.

 

So bar him cutting in (which isn't really going to help the supply to Carroll), I can't see any advantages to him playing on the left.

[Mick]

I can't be arsed to go track down the post, but I remember saying something similar after HBA's game in the centre (Everton wasn't it?) about how the same problems remained about the massive gap between Carroll and the centre of midfield.

 

The problem (and I wouldn't really say it was something wrong about him, just wrong for the position he'd be in) with HBA is that he's very much an attacking player - he looks forward, always goes forward and someone in that 'hole' needs to be a player that can sometimes have his back to goal and bring the CMs behind him into play - something which I think HBA has no interest in doing - like I say, not necessarily a bad thing, just not ideal for that position - I just think his play looks more suited to a winger who cuts inside, or an out and out forward.

 

Ben Arfa can play with his back to goal, he's more likely to go forward but he can do it.  You must remember that he's hardly played here so doesn't know who runs to where.  He needs games to work out who he's playing with before he can really play to his full strengths.

[Yorkie]

Ben Arfa as the 1 in the 4-4-1-1 is a different kettle of fish altogether imo. He isn't a winger. In the Stoke home game we were completely unbalanced cos B.A was doing what he did best - floating all around the final third trying to make clever passes.

 

If we're keeping Barton on the right, which we absolutely should, we need to have an out-and-out winger on the left. That's why the January priorities go striker, then left-winger.

 

I dunno why the f*** i'm even talking about Ben Arfa but there you go.

 

I understand the balance thing, I don't think HBA/Barton is the best mix for the wings, but I don't think Carroll upfront alone works, whether it's Nolan behind him or Ben Arfa. The same problem remains - the massive gap between midfield and attack, Nolan can't bridge it and HBA has no interest in bridging it - that's why I think he works best at LM and Nolan works best in CM.

 

With two strikers up top, we seem to get the best out of Carroll and the midfield don't get too detached from our strikeforce either. Nolan also seems to play better with two proper forwards in front of him. We get a decent forward in and what Ronaldo posted is probably our best chance of success this season IMO. (although I'd probably play Willicini).

 

Seriously? He looks like the perfect sort of player to link midfield to attack. Excellent with the ball at his feet and generally looking for a through ball. The difference between him and Nolan in that role would be astronomical, imo.

 

I can't be arsed to go track down the post, but I remember saying something similar after HBA's game in the centre (Everton wasn't it?) about how the same problems remained about the massive gap between Carroll and the centre of midfield.

 

The problem (and I wouldn't really say it was something wrong about him, just wrong for the position he'd be in) with HBA is that he's very much an attacking player - he looks forward, always goes forward and someone in that 'hole' needs to be a player that can sometimes have his back to goal and bring the CMs behind him into play - something which I think HBA has no interest in doing - like I say, not necessarily a bad thing, just not ideal for that position - I just think his play looks more suited to a winger who cuts inside, or an out and out forward.

 

Without belittling either of us, i don't reckon we personally know enough about Ben Arfa to intricately discuss his style and such (nor is there really any point). But personally i think he'd work in the hole, so i'm gonna leave this at 'agree to disagree'. However, i'm pretty sure he was on the wing at Everton, and we were as imbalanced as we were at home to Stoke. Fortunately, that day everyone was brilliant and Everton were wasteful so it wasn't as obvious. As i recall, we brought Jonas on in a CF position fairly late in the game.

[Yorkie]

Krul

Simpson-Williamson-Coloccini-Enrique

Barton-Nolan-Tiote-Gutierrez

Ben Arfa

Carroll

 

 

With Ben Arfa in the team, in a free role, I think Gutierrez will get more space, and not being closed down by two players all the time. It also plays better to Ben Arfas skills not locking him down to the wing. We don't have a good partner to Carroll, so Ben Arfa and Nolan supporting him is a better choice.

 

Massive point btw. Purely from what i've seen in those two games, Ben Arfa's the type of player that could galvanise any fellow attacker. Jonas would benefit from not being the only fucker in the side who can beat a man.

[JH]

I can't be arsed to go track down the post, but I remember saying something similar after HBA's game in the centre (Everton wasn't it?) about how the same problems remained about the massive gap between Carroll and the centre of midfield.

 

The problem (and I wouldn't really say it was something wrong about him, just wrong for the position he'd be in) with HBA is that he's very much an attacking player - he looks forward, always goes forward and someone in that 'hole' needs to be a player that can sometimes have his back to goal and bring the CMs behind him into play - something which I think HBA has no interest in doing - like I say, not necessarily a bad thing, just not ideal for that position - I just think his play looks more suited to a winger who cuts inside, or an out and out forward.

 

Ben Arfa can play with his back to goal, he's more likely to go forward but he can do it.  You must remember that he's hardly played here so doesn't know who runs to where.  He needs games to work out who he's playing with before he can really play to his full strengths.

 

Fairy nuff. I just see him as more of a 'selfish player' - like a better version of Jonas - who can set up and score goals for himself (like his Everton goal). The only way I'd see him in the centre would be something like:

 

                    Krul

Simpson  Willi  Colo  Enrique

      Barton  Tiote  Nolan

           <---  HBA --->

            Carroll  ?? ??

 

in a sort of free role in and around the strikers. The only problem is the lack of width it would give us.

 

I just think we need two up top, because Barton/Carroll (who I see as our two biggest attacking threats atm) seem to work best in a 4-4-2. Our best football came when Hughton switched the formation post-City game IMO.

[Yorkie]

Ah the 4-3-1-2.