Ronaldo Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 After his 'defensive' performance in the last derby I'd rather not see that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 We'll not be playing him at fucking left-back again though, will we? He'd likely come on to shore things up the middle of the park. Derby games are hard work and like it or not, Pardew will be looking to 'close out' the result by 70-75 minutes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 We'll not be playing him at fucking left-back again though, will we? He'd likely come on to shore things up the middle of the park. Derby games are hard work and like it or not, Pardew will be looking to 'close out' the result by 70-75 minutes. I'd rather not even picture that scenario. We know how it generally ends up at the SOS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Jonas is a good option for the role Pilko is talking about. It's pretty much all he's good for really. Slowing the play down, keeping possession. He can hold it up, to a degree, in the final third. Can also win a header or two when we inevitably start punting it long in the final section of the game. I'd rather he came on than Sammy or Cisse in a scenario where we're narrowly in the lead and need to close the game out. I'd probably rather have Obertan on n'all, tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiLvOR Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I'd rather we just smashed the life out of them and keep going until the final whistle, but you're right these games are usually tight and they usually get a deflection off of someone to nick a point. Jonas would be okay to come on and use his energy to win some free kicks and put the all important tackle in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Jonas is a good option for the role Pilko is talking about. It's pretty much all he's good for really. Slowing the play down, keeping possession. He can hold it up, to a degree, in the final third. Can also win a header or two when we inevitably start punting it long in the final section of the game. I'd rather he came on than Sammy or Cisse in a scenario where we're narrowly in the lead and need to close the game out. I'd probably rather have Obertan on n'all, tbh. Sorry, but I don't agree with this at all. He's become woeful at keeping the ball as well, he can't go on the sort of runs he did when he first arrived, at best he might win a free kick, because we sure as hell don't want him to attempt to pass the ball. He's one of the clumsiest tacklers I've seen as well, which means he's always close to giving away a free kick. Hope to fuck we don't have to see him on the pitch on Sunday, he's easily one of the worst players in our squad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 He's had a shit season like everybody else in his squad, but I would back him to improve. Not ready to write him off yet, and for me he's still a valuable squad member, even if he shouldn't be in the first team unless we play the big guns, where his energy could be vital. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 He's had a shit season like everybody else in his squad, but I would back him to improve. Not ready to write him off yet, and for me he's still a valuable squad member, even if he shouldn't be in the first team unless we play the big guns, where his energy could be vital. Did well when he came on against Cardiff, too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Jonas is a good option for the role Pilko is talking about. It's pretty much all he's good for really. Slowing the play down, keeping possession. He can hold it up, to a degree, in the final third. Can also win a header or two when we inevitably start punting it long in the final section of the game. I'd rather he came on than Sammy or Cisse in a scenario where we're narrowly in the lead and need to close the game out. I'd probably rather have Obertan on n'all, tbh. Sorry, but I don't agree with this at all. He's become woeful at keeping the ball as well, he can't go on the sort of runs he did when he first arrived, at best he might win a free kick, because we sure as hell don't want him to attempt to pass the ball. He's one of the clumsiest tacklers I've seen as well, which means he's always close to giving away a free kick. Hope to fuck we don't have to see him on the pitch on Sunday, he's easily one of the worst players in our squad. Just because he's not a good attacking player doesn't mean he's got no value at all now. Sometimes you need to bring on a player to close down the space and track back. Jonas is very good for that and he'll usually put in a good shift as well. Pretty stupid to write him off as a squad member when the alternatives like Obertan and Sammy are purely attacking players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segun Oluwaniyi Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Jonas is a good option for the role Pilko is talking about. It's pretty much all he's good for really. Slowing the play down, keeping possession. He can hold it up, to a degree, in the final third. Can also win a header or two when we inevitably start punting it long in the final section of the game. I'd rather he came on than Sammy or Cisse in a scenario where we're narrowly in the lead and need to close the game out. I'd probably rather have Obertan on n'all, tbh. Sorry, but I don't agree with this at all. He's become woeful at keeping the ball as well, he can't go on the sort of runs he did when he first arrived, at best he might win a free kick, because we sure as hell don't want him to attempt to pass the ball. He's one of the clumsiest tacklers I've seen as well, which means he's always close to giving away a free kick. Hope to f*** we don't have to see him on the pitch on Sunday, he's easily one of the worst players in our squad. Just because he's not a good attacking player doesn't mean he's got no value at all now. Sometimes you need to bring on a player to close down the space and track back. Jonas is very good for that and he'll usually put in a good shift as well. Pretty stupid to write him off as a squad member when the alternatives like Obertan and Sammy are purely attacking players. Who are either complete rubbish or not ready for this level yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Jonas is a good option for the role Pilko is talking about. It's pretty much all he's good for really. Slowing the play down, keeping possession. He can hold it up, to a degree, in the final third. Can also win a header or two when we inevitably start punting it long in the final section of the game. I'd rather he came on than Sammy or Cisse in a scenario where we're narrowly in the lead and need to close the game out. I'd probably rather have Obertan on n'all, tbh. Sorry, but I don't agree with this at all. He's become woeful at keeping the ball as well, he can't go on the sort of runs he did when he first arrived, at best he might win a free kick, because we sure as hell don't want him to attempt to pass the ball. He's one of the clumsiest tacklers I've seen as well, which means he's always close to giving away a free kick. Hope to fuck we don't have to see him on the pitch on Sunday, he's easily one of the worst players in our squad. Just because he's not a good attacking player doesn't mean he's got no value at all now. Sometimes you need to bring on a player to close down the space and track back. Jonas is very good for that and he'll usually put in a good shift as well. Pretty stupid to write him off as a squad member when the alternatives like Obertan and Sammy are purely attacking players. Saw enough of his defensive capabilities last year against the mackems. He's a complete liability these days, even if he does somehow win the ball, he is so bad with it that he's likely to just give it away again. If we're talking like for like, I'd much rather get Sammy on the pitch than Jonas, and I don't particularly rate Sammy. If we're playing a 4-3-3 with Cabaye, Tiote, Sissoko in midfield and Remy, Cissé, Ben Arfa, I'd much rather bring on Gouffran for closing down and keeping the ball, or if he's already on the pitch or get Anita or Bigi on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Does Jonas still have the whole stamina/energy thing going for him anymore? It didn't seem apparent last season, but then it's hard to tell because of how bad last season was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Last season Gutierrez seemed to lose his ability to drive forward with the ball, keep possession and draw fouls. But he did a decent job of it when he came on against Cardiff, so maybe the rest he's had has freshened him up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Jonas is a good option for the role Pilko is talking about. It's pretty much all he's good for really. Slowing the play down, keeping possession. He can hold it up, to a degree, in the final third. Can also win a header or two when we inevitably start punting it long in the final section of the game. I'd rather he came on than Sammy or Cisse in a scenario where we're narrowly in the lead and need to close the game out. I'd probably rather have Obertan on n'all, tbh. Sorry, but I don't agree with this at all. He's become woeful at keeping the ball as well, he can't go on the sort of runs he did when he first arrived, at best he might win a free kick, because we sure as hell don't want him to attempt to pass the ball. He's one of the clumsiest tacklers I've seen as well, which means he's always close to giving away a free kick. Hope to fuck we don't have to see him on the pitch on Sunday, he's easily one of the worst players in our squad. Just because he's not a good attacking player doesn't mean he's got no value at all now. Sometimes you need to bring on a player to close down the space and track back. Jonas is very good for that and he'll usually put in a good shift as well. Pretty stupid to write him off as a squad member when the alternatives like Obertan and Sammy are purely attacking players. Saw enough of his defensive capabilities last year against the mackems. He's a complete liability these days, even if he does somehow win the ball, he is so bad with it that he's likely to just give it away again. If we're talking like for like, I'd much rather get Sammy on the pitch than Jonas, and I don't particularly rate Sammy. If we're playing a 4-3-3 with Cabaye, Tiote, Sissoko in midfield and Remy, Cissé, Ben Arfa, I'd much rather bring on Gouffran for closing down and keeping the ball, or if he's already on the pitch or get Anita or Bigi on. Jonas is usually used to provide extra cover down the left side when we need a defensive formation. I don't really see how Sammy or Anita would be better for that specific role. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Anita would be far better as we'd keep possession when he gets it. A midfield trio of Anita, Tiote, Cabaye with Sissoko ahead of them is enough defensive cover and would be far better than just hoying Jonas on hoping that he can run around a bit and not lose the ball every time he gets it. I'd even rather we bring on Dummet/Haidara and move Santon forward rather than bring Jonas on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugoinufc Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 good player to have on the bench - never a starter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Anyone suggesting he should start games at this stage of his career must be insane. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Anyone suggesting he should start games at this stage of his career must be insane. I don't think anyone's suggested that for a long time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 It was suggested 7 hours ago, mate. Look up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 That's directed at me than I suppose. I said i would consider starting him against the likes if Manchester United and Chelsea for the energy and defensive capabilities he brings. He has proven before he can be useful in such conditions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I respect you and your opinion, even if you are a tad insane. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 It was suggested 7 hours ago, mate. Look up. Ah ok. Personally I see him mostly as a defensive sub at best. I can see Pardew using him like Unbelievable suggested though, if he thinks we're on a hiding to nothing. That tactic usually backfires though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I respect you and your opinion, even if you are a tad insane. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 That's directed at me than I suppose. I said i would consider starting him against the likes if Manchester United and Chelsea for the energy and defensive capabilities he brings. He has proven before he can be useful in such conditions. He used to be, we've got far better defensive options than him now though. EDIT: If you're talking about a back to the wall defensive plan (which surely is the only reason why anyone would start Jonas), something like this would be much better Anita Tiote Cabaye Sissoko Gouffran Cissé/Ben Arfa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 That's directed at me than I suppose. I said i would consider starting him against the likes if Manchester United and Chelsea for the energy and defensive capabilities he brings. He has proven before he can be useful in such conditions. He used to be, we've got far better defensive options than him now though. I wouldn't class Anita or Bigi, who I presume you're on about, better defensive options. I'm not saying I would start him per se, but I can see Pardew doing it and I wouldn't berate him for it. I certainly wouldn't go into those matches with a front three who barely track back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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