Alan Pardew

[Mr. Snrub]

That performance at Blackburn under Kinnear was when I began bracing myself for relegation.

 

We made Roberts look like Drogba that day.

[Dave]

Stoke and Stevenage were just as bad as Bolton and West Brom, if not worse.

 

Aye, fair point.

 

Second half of the season we were missing the key player that had been responsible for the first half success. Barton and Nolan's form was linked and possibly even reliant on the success of Carroll. The team, from back to front, was basically built around his strengths.

 

Take him out and we were a well-oiled machine missing the most important component. Not to mention the psychological blow of that sale (remember the Fulham game? first half vs Arsenal? the hangover was evident). The results weren't great but they weren't terrible in the circumstances. Even when we managed to stumble across a semi-replacement for Carroll in Best he ended up getting injured before the season was out. This is why I'm willing to give Pardew a bit of time to see how he wants to set up with the new players. Hughton built the side and had us playing a certain way, it's going to need doing all over again with the changes. We're still 1 or 2 players short of having a functioning side, mind, but lets see how we go.

 

This is the kind of reasoning I was after tbh and you make a few decent points.  Doesn't change my view much but it's better than this "Pardew is clearly a big upgrade on Hughton" rubbish.

 

I don't think Pardew is a massive upgrade on Hughton, basically. Atleast certainly not yet. I think Pardew has done a very good job in the circumstances over the last 6 months, though. Better than I ever thought he would, which isn't hard mind because I thought he'd be an unmitigated disaster.

 

As unconvinced as I am, from what I've seen from him I rate him higher than say Bruce or McLeish, who have bigger reputations as managers. QPR the other week had me worried, because I thought the performance looked devoid of any gameplan and Pardew's inability to fix it made him look completely clueless. However when I hear him speak about his plans for Ben Arfa as a #10, and the way he's spoken in detail about Cabaye's virtues (the nufcTV interview in particular) it consoles me and makes me thing that maybe he does have a bit more about him.

 

Still a lot of time and games for me to formulate a conclusive opinion on him, ultimately.

 

Good stuff, agree.

[ponsaelius]

Whether it's more by necessity than choice, I'm not sure, but I think Pardew is quite enthusiastically embracing the younger players in the squad. While he's say, stuck with Raylor rather than play Ferguson...he's also been very keen to push Sameobi and Vuckic towards the first team even if he's not throwing them in at the deep end. I get the feeling he'd be happy to rely on somebody like Abeid if push came to shove, too. That and the fact we're getting people like Tavernier proper gametime out on loan, first at Conference level and now at League One. It seems a lot more streamlined and focused in this area. Which is good, I love seeing the young players get their chances.

 

Mind, if you want to look at more cynically you could argue it's all part of the greater plan. Young, cheap with a chance for profit future profit.

[Sifu]

Too bad we didn't give Kinnear a more fair chance, i think he would of have done well, good motivator and always tried to play decent football.

 

[Interpolic]

Whether it's more by necessity than choice, I'm not sure, but I think Pardew is quite enthusiastically embracing the younger players in the squad. While he's say, stuck with Raylor rather than play Ferguson...he's also been very keen to push Sameobi and Vuckic towards the first team even if he's not throwing them in at the deep end. I get the feeling he'd be happy to rely on somebody like Abeid if push came to shove, too. That and the fact we're getting people like Tavernier proper gametime out on loan, first at Conference level and now at League One. It seems a lot more streamlined and focused in this area. Which is good, I love seeing the young players get their chances.

 

Mind, if you want to look at more cynically you could argue it's all part of the greater plan. Young, cheap with a chance for profit future profit.

 

You could say the same about his desire to play Ben Arfa off the front man.  Is that down to his footballing principles or the fact he couldn't get his board to spend a few quid on a striker?  In fairness I don't care if it's by accident or design as long as the manager sticks to a good plan once they're on to it, look at Keegan's 4-3-3, or Robson ending up with Bellamy and Robert rather than Jeffers and Zenden.

[Guest magpie99]

Magpie 99: I thought that was a very good post until that blinded last paragraph

Guv

 

Apologies to you and Dave if you were offended by my views on KK but whilst I admit to him doing a wonderful job in his first spell mostly due to the budget he was given and to a certain extent, a reasonable effort in his second spell, the one thing I find it hard to forgive him for was walking out on the club wshen it was obvious funds were no longer available.

 

I dont really want to get into a discussion about it all again but given the circumstances Pardew has had to work under for the past 10 months and the fact that many on here and other NUFC forums encouraged Pardew to walk when he was let down over the striker issue, the fact he hasnt walked when the going got tough leads one to be;ieve he deserves a great deal of respect for the job he is doing, unlike Keegan, in my opinion.

[Guest magpie99]

I still have a giggle to myself when I see posters on here call the likes of Pardew this and that, based on what? Have they actually sat down and conversed with the man? Have they actually analysed his career to date? Do they know the problems associated with his management style behind the scenes?

 

The answer to all these questions would undoubtedly be a resounding NO. Therefore, it would be reasonable at all to make comments on dislike  for the man.

 

For those who havent experienced it, management of any sort needs personnel who can make the hard decisions and accept the associated pitfalls and triumphs thbat go with it. I doubt that most managers in any walk of life care whether they are disliked or liked because their success is based primarily on results. It helps if the staff like the manager of course and I feel the majority of fans are coming round to Pardew rapidly. Long may it continue because if he went now, we would be in the soup big time.

 

By the way, not that I am an Ashley apologist, but taking away the failure to buy a striker in the transfer window, would anyone put aside their dislike for the bloke and admit thatg in general, the club is looking a lot healthier, on and off the park?

 

Dislike him or not, he has made the hard decisions and we are heading in the right direction as a club now after a couple of years of mismanagement.

[TRon]

I'd be genuinely interested to hear what people think are Pardew's best performances/results so far btw, I'm really trying to understand this.

 

Under Hughton we were a very inconsistent side in our first season back up, but we had a few games where we dominated the opposition which suggested we were becoming a side that could beat anyone on our day.  In that instance, consistency is the next step.  When have we dominated a game under Pardew?  I can't think of many examples.  West Ham at home springs to mind.

 

Hughton's team was built around Carroll, Barton and Nolan as Sewelly has already said. It was massively effective in some games but equally if Carroll got dominated by a centre back like Samba there wasn't really a plan B. I don't really see how we could have progressed using those tactics and getting rid of Nolan was a key to moving towards a more passing game. It might be we sold the likes of Carroll and Nolan for financial reasons only, but I think it could work out better for the team in the long run. The squad is obviously stronger now, you just have to look at the bench to see that. We have players who are more suited to playing a quick passing game - whether Pardew is the man who can exploit that we'll have to see. There's been a lot of long ball stuff in the early games but that might be down to players like Tiote and Ba being not physically 100%.

 

The next few games should tell us a lot more.

[Ronaldo]

Very good post, TRon.

[Christmas Tree]

Agree with all of that second post Magpie99.

[STM]

There's very little i can see wrong with Pardew's managment so far and there are alot of more experianced managers who would failed in the same position IMO.

 

The fact he's a cockney works against him, not because we are unwelcoming to southern people or foreign cultures in general but more because it fits in with cockney mafia cliche.

 

The single most impressive thing about Pardew's reign so far is the way he has included local people in coaching set up and John Carver in particular is someone i trust. I don't know what it is about the man but i can't help feeling whenever he is at the club that the team is in safe hands, perhaps that's abit naive of me and the romantic in me is looking back at the SBR days with fond memories.

 

In terms of the Hughton/Pards comparison, the most single aspect of Pardew's management that sets him apart from Hughton is his bravery. Hughton's side was solid and gave nothing away (to his credit of course), Pardew is taking a risk getting rid of the old guard in an effort to play a more attractive expansive style. Pardew has the players to do it of course, Hughton didn't. In a similar comparison, Pardew takes risks in the press, sometimes saying daft things, where Hughton would say nowt. They are chalk and cheese in many ways but Pardew is reaping the benefit of a solid defence that Hughton created.

[Dr Venkman]

In terms of squad strength mind I'm still shitting myself in anticipation of an injury to Saylor or less likely Colo,we'd be in for a very difficult few games. Any news on Williamson btw?

[Guest BlacknWhiteArmy]

In terms of squad strength mind I'm still shitting myself in anticipation of an injury to Saylor or less likely Colo,we'd be in for a very difficult few games. Any news on Williamson btw?

 

Nothing new on the 6 weeks away comment a week back.

[quayside]

Oh gawd, quote pyramids. My eyes.

 

Hughton had got the group of players playing well, and whether that was actively/passively (for the purposes of this discussion, anyway) isn't really relevant, is it? Incidentally though, was his squad which he had helped developed (actively or passively, as you choose to see things) in eighth place in the Premiership when he left because it was light years ahead also? There were no signs of the memorable performances abating when he left IMO. I can't see how, on the evidence available at the time of the sacking, you can say that Pardew wasn't brought in for reasons other than footballing ones.

 

I linked them (the sales, Enrique's departure) to Pardew in so far as I see him being part of the regime and therefore accepting of them. Remember, I'm talking about Pardew's character here (and essentially - why I don't like him) lest we lose track of what we're actually debating! For the record though, if Hughton was as much of a puppet as you suggest (where's the evidence for that btw?) he would still be here.

 

Edit: Regarding Ashley running the club as a business - your views came across on the forum as being tinged with more than a touch of pride - "I defy you to find..." seems like a proud statement to me! I find it relevant as I see Pardew's initial acceptance of the job as being tantamount to, and evidence of complicity/condoning how Ashley runs the club.

 

We are all pretty much in the dark when it comes to how different managers operate and what their relationship with the players and  owners is. So the only thing we can do is interpret events and what information we are given as we see it.

 

The case for Hughton consists of getting one of the strongest sides ever in the Championship promoted, and then keeping what was an average Premiership side in mid table for half a season. These are not just the only things I have seen him achieve they are also the sum of his management experience. He is also a very decent human being. FWIW I think the worrying things about us in the Premiership under Hughton were our poor home record and our poor results when key players were missing.

 

I don't think that Hughton not being here has anything whatsoever to do with whether he was a puppet or not. He was sacked because Ashley/Llambias thought he wasn't up to the job and Pardew would get more out of the squad. I think they got it right. As far as whether Pardew is a puppet or not he has, at least, openly expressed his disappointment with the board for letting him down in the transfer window. I don't think Hughton would have said a word.

 

I have already said that I am under no illusions about where we are, the fixture list gave us a good opportunity to get points on the board and we have done so. Pardew is not a five star rated manager or anything like it but, looking around at other managers in the Premiership, I prefer him to plenty that I see. And, based on what I see of him in interview and getting performances out of what he has got, I think he has more about him than Hughton. Rather like those who think Pardew got the job because he was a mate of someone there is no real evidence for it - it is just an opinion.

 

 

[TRon]

In terms of squad strength mind I'm still shitting myself in anticipation of an injury to Saylor or less likely Colo,we'd be in for a very difficult few games. Any news on Williamson btw?

 

I know people complain about our lack of depth in central defence, but we've got 3 fairly competent players fighting for 2 spots in Colo, Taylor and Williamson. I would think most clubs bench strength will be pretty similar. Kadar would have been a good 4th option a year ago but I'm not sure what's happened to him since. Perch isn't ideal as a last resort but how many clubs have good 4th options in that area?

[Lotus]

Personally think Hughton was out on his ear because he was going to make a fuss over the Carroll transfer.

 

That has no bearing of Pardew's ability as a manager, just why i think Hughton was shown the door.

[STM]

In terms of squad strength mind I'm still shitting myself in anticipation of an injury to Saylor or less likely Colo,we'd be in for a very difficult few games. Any news on Williamson btw?

 

I know people complain about our lack of depth in central defence, but we've got 3 fairly competent players fighting for 2 spots in Colo, Taylor and Williamson. I would think most clubs bench strength will be pretty similar. Kadar would have been a good 4th option a year ago but I'm not sure what's happened to him since. Perch isn't ideal as a last resort but how many clubs have good 4th options in that area?

 

This where we need an Aaron Hughes type, someone very competant right across the back. Someone who will be a "squad player" but will get enough games to satisfy them throughout the season.

 

These players aren't easy to find though.

[Dr Venkman]

In terms of squad strength mind I'm still shitting myself in anticipation of an injury to Saylor or less likely Colo,we'd be in for a very difficult few games. Any news on Williamson btw?

 

I know people complain about our lack of depth in central defence, but we've got 3 fairly competent players fighting for 2 spots in Colo, Taylor and Williamson. I would think most clubs bench strength will be pretty similar. Kadar would have been a good 4th option a year ago but I'm not sure what's happened to him since. Perch isn't ideal as a last resort but how many clubs have good 4th options in that area?

 

'Perch isnt ideal' is far too kind.

[STM]

Personally think Hughton was out on his ear because he was going to make a fuss over the Carroll transfer.

 

That has no bearing of Pardew's ability as a manager, just why i think Hughton was shown the door.

 

I said the same thing when we sold Carroll, all seemed rather coincidental to me but we are unlikely to ever find out.

[Benwell Lad]

I still have a giggle to myself when I see posters on here call the likes of Pardew this and that, based on what? Have they actually sat down and conversed with the man? Have they actually analysed his career to date? Do they know the problems associated with his management style behind the scenes?

 

The answer to all these questions would undoubtedly be a resounding NO. Therefore, it would be reasonable at all to make comments on dislike  for the man.

 

For those who havent experienced it, management of any sort needs personnel who can make the hard decisions and accept the associated pitfalls and triumphs thbat go with it. I doubt that most managers in any walk of life care whether they are disliked or liked because their success is based primarily on results. It helps if the staff like the manager of course and I feel the majority of fans are coming round to Pardew rapidly. Long may it continue because if he went now, we would be in the soup big time.

 

By the way, not that I am an Ashley apologist, but taking away the failure to buy a striker in the transfer window, would anyone put aside their dislike for the bloke and admit thatg in general, the club is looking a lot healthier, on and off the park?

 

Dislike him or not, he has made the hard decisions and we are heading in the right direction as a club now after a couple of years of mismanagement.

 

[Guest Haris Vuckic]

 

My Nanna still hates him like.

[Guest TheSummerOf69]

 

Apologies to you and Dave if you were offended by my views on KK but whilst I admit to him doing a wonderful job in his first spell mostly due to the budget he was given and to a certain extent, a reasonable effort in his second spell, the one thing I find it hard to forgive him for was walking out on the club wshen it was obvious funds were no longer available.

 

 

Hmm.

 

He took over a team heading for the 3rd division (where Newcastle, unlike Sunderland, have never been in their entire 100yrs+) and turned them into a team that won the first 11 games of the season in front of full houses on the way to the Premier League and Europe.

 

Then John Hall smelled cash and invested, on his way to taking a hundred million out of the club.

 

KK made that money - including the Hall and Shepherd windfalls they disapeared with.

[TRon]

In terms of squad strength mind I'm still shitting myself in anticipation of an injury to Saylor or less likely Colo,we'd be in for a very difficult few games. Any news on Williamson btw?

 

I know people complain about our lack of depth in central defence, but we've got 3 fairly competent players fighting for 2 spots in Colo, Taylor and Williamson. I would think most clubs bench strength will be pretty similar. Kadar would have been a good 4th option a year ago but I'm not sure what's happened to him since. Perch isn't ideal as a last resort but how many clubs have good 4th options in that area?

 

'Perch isnt ideal' is far too kind.

 

I said "isn't ideal as a last resort" and you didn't answer the question how many clubs have good 4th options in central defence? When you get past the top 4 I'll guess probably not many.

[quayside]

Personally think Hughton was out on his ear because he was going to make a fuss over the Carroll transfer.

 

That has no bearing of Pardew's ability as a manager, just why i think Hughton was shown the door.

 

I said the same thing when we sold Carroll, all seemed rather coincidental to me but we are unlikely to ever find out.

 

I just can't see Hughton making a fuss about anything tbh.

It's not conclusive but fwiw here's a transcript from an interview Hughton gave to Keys and Gray in April.

 

Richard Keys: “Do you think he was always going to leave in January?”

 

Chris Hughton: “No I don’t. I think the club wanted to keep him, I think the supporters certainly wanted to keep him, and of course, the management and the management staff certainly wanted to keep him because of the quality that he is. I think that he left Newcastle for one reason, and that was the huge fee that he left there for.”

 

Richard Keys: “So that was just too much to resist?”

 

Chris Hughton: “I think everybody was astounded at the time at the value. I think, and hope, for the lad’s sake, and of course for Liverpool’s sake as well, that everyone will look back on it and say ‘That’s been very, very good business.”

 

[Lotus]

Personally think Hughton was out on his ear because he was going to make a fuss over the Carroll transfer.

 

That has no bearing of Pardew's ability as a manager, just why i think Hughton was shown the door.

 

I said the same thing when we sold Carroll, all seemed rather coincidental to me but we are unlikely to ever find out.

 

I just can't see Hughton making a fuss about anything tbh.

It's not conclusive but fwiw here's a transcript from an interview Hughton gave to Keys and Gray in April.

 

Richard Keys: “Do you think he was always going to leave in January?”

 

Chris Hughton: “No I don’t. I think the club wanted to keep him, I think the supporters certainly wanted to keep him, and of course, the management and the management staff certainly wanted to keep him because of the quality that he is. I think that he left Newcastle for one reason, and that was the huge fee that he left there for.”

 

Richard Keys: “So that was just too much to resist?”

 

Chris Hughton: “I think everybody was astounded at the time at the value. I think, and hope, for the lad’s sake, and of course for Liverpool’s sake as well, that everyone will look back on it and say ‘That’s been very, very good business.”

 

 

Personally i think Hughton would not have been willing to say Carroll's not for sale while the board hawk him about, then go in front of the cameras telling the fans that all the money will go back into the football club knowing full well that that's bollocks.

 

Don't think he'd have been comfortable with that tbh.