Hanshithispantz Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 He's definitely our star player like, that isn't even up for debate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 yes Okay... EDIT: 4411 wouldn't be too bad but how would it be any different to 4-4-2 with Ben Arfa dropping short occasionally? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 He's definitely our star player like, that isn't even up for debate. I would be much more disappointed if one of the seven players I have named left the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Ben Arfa could be our star man - but currently isn't. That's all there is to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Ben Arfa could be our star man - but currently isn't. That's all there is to it. i reckon the fact he isn't in the team is relevant Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Ben Arfa could be our star man - but currently isn't. That's all there is to it. i reckon the fact he isn't in the team is relevant He should be in the team, but I don't buy all this indispensible, our star player, build the team around him claptrap that is on here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzle Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 That wasn't in question, he was judging Pards on the hypothetical idea that "Sameobi can do a better job on the wing than Ben Arfa" - I think there's enough evidence to accept Ben Arfa is the best footballer in the squad. In my opinion, Ben Arfa is only the 6th best player at the club in terms of ability, and probably only 8th best when you consider factors such as work ethic and consistency. 6th best in terms of ability? Looking at ability alone he's number one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Ben Arfa needs a system wich suits him, and four four bloody two doesn't. If we were playing a more 4-3-3 style we might have been better off with HBA in the team. But neither jonas or obertan knows what an offensive run is so he has two choices when he plays, either dribble past all and score, or give the ball to Ba. So Pardew should change our formation to suit one player?? No but he should change the formation/system to get the best out of the team and the players available. He's doing that at the moment. Personally I'd put Ben Arfa into a 4-4-2 and see how that goes before I start changing entire systems but certainly the rigid way we set up now is really restricting our play and not getting the best out of anyone other than maybe Ba. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 It's very debatable and we'll not know until he actually gets a decent run of games. He's our 'star man' though without a doubt. So many other players can be considered a star man in our side over Ben Arfa. The 'star man' Demba Ba who has been an unstoppable force in front of goal The 'star man' Fabriccio Coloccini who is an immovable object in defence, leads the organisation of our defence and helps the team build from the back. The 'star man' Tim Krul, whose top quality saves have made significant differences to whether we win draw or lose. The 'star man' Cheick Tiote who has broken down passing move after passing move consistently for 18 months. The 'star man' Yohan Cabaye who completely controls the passage of play in midfield. Ben Arfa has not demonstrated one star quality that should mean he is considered as a star player ahead of those five. The latter two have performed sporadically this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Ben Arfa could be our star man - but currently isn't. That's all there is to it. i reckon the fact he isn't in the team is relevant It is. 1) It could be because he isn't putting the effort in in training. 2) It could be because we don't feel he has full match fitness yet. 3) It could be that he isn't one of Pardew's favourites. 4) It could be because when he has come on Pardew doesn't feel he as been as influential as he is supposed to be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 That wasn't in question, he was judging Pards on the hypothetical idea that "Sameobi can do a better job on the wing than Ben Arfa" - I think there's enough evidence to accept Ben Arfa is the best footballer in the squad. In my opinion, Ben Arfa is only the 6th best player at the club in terms of ability, and probably only 8th best when you consider factors such as work ethic and consistency. 6th best in terms of ability? Looking at ability alone he's number one. He has the best technique at the club. Nethertheless, the Shearer-Ginola anecdote applies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Ben Arfa could be our star man - but currently isn't. That's all there is to it. i reckon the fact he isn't in the team is relevant He should be in the team, but I don't buy all this indispensible, our star player, build the team around him claptrap that is on here. Bit of a difference between building the team around him and not having him on the field at all, or for twenty minutes when chasing the game. Classic straw man, as Dave would say. I wouldn't build the team around Coloccini, that doesn't mean I'd have him on the fucking bench. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 So, by this logic, we could sign Leo Messi, leave him on the bench every week and he wouldn't be the 'star player' of the club? OK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 So, by this logic, we could sign Leo Messi, leave him on the bench every week and he wouldn't be the 'star player' of the club? OK. He'd not fit into our 4-4-2 either tbf to him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzle Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 That wasn't in question, he was judging Pards on the hypothetical idea that "Sameobi can do a better job on the wing than Ben Arfa" - I think there's enough evidence to accept Ben Arfa is the best footballer in the squad. In my opinion, Ben Arfa is only the 6th best player at the club in terms of ability, and probably only 8th best when you consider factors such as work ethic and consistency. 6th best in terms of ability? Looking at ability alone he's number one. He has the best technique at the club. Nethertheless, the Shearer-Ginola anecdote applies. He has the best ability and technique, its irrelevant whether the ability is utilised. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Ben Arfa needs a system wich suits him, and four four bloody two doesn't. If we were playing a more 4-3-3 style we might have been better off with HBA in the team. But neither jonas or obertan knows what an offensive run is so he has two choices when he plays, either dribble past all and score, or give the ball to Ba. So Pardew should change our formation to suit one player?? No but he should change the formation/system to get the best out of the team and the players available. He's doing that at the moment. Personally I'd put Ben Arfa into a 4-4-2 and see how that goes before I start changing entire systems but certainly the rigid way we set up now is really restricting our play and not getting the best out of anyone other than maybe Ba. Fair point. Defensively is where we are lacking though, not attacking. Changing to have less in midfield for me (e.g. 433) wouldn't be 'the answer'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Ben Arfa could be our star man - but currently isn't. That's all there is to it. i reckon the fact he isn't in the team is relevant It is. 1) It could be because he isn't putting the effort in in training. 2) It could be because we don't feel he has full match fitness yet. 3) It could be that he isn't one of Pardew's favourites. 4) It could be because when he has come on Pardew doesn't feel he as been as influential as he is supposed to be. ... so that's not all there is to it, that was my point Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Ben Arfa could be our star man - but currently isn't. That's all there is to it. i reckon the fact he isn't in the team is relevant He should be in the team, but I don't buy all this indispensible, our star player, build the team around him claptrap that is on here. Bit of a difference between building the team around him and not having him on the field at all, or for twenty minutes when chasing the game. Classic straw man, as Dave would say. I wouldn't build the team around Coloccini, that doesn't mean I'd have him on the fucking bench. Does he want to play on the right though? Pardew has insisted time after time that he wants a player to constantly knock on his door and say he wants to play. I am sure that if Ben Arfa asked to play on the right, and spent all week playing there in training, he'd be starting in that position instead of Sammy fucking Ameobi. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 He's currently getting his name sung when he's not even on the pitch, the admins of this board have just closed a 1000 page thread on him and. It would be silly to suggest he is our most important player, because he's not (especially he hasn't managed a proper sting of games yet), but he's by far the biggest name we have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Ben Arfa needs a system wich suits him, and four four bloody two doesn't. If we were playing a more 4-3-3 style we might have been better off with HBA in the team. But neither jonas or obertan knows what an offensive run is so he has two choices when he plays, either dribble past all and score, or give the ball to Ba. So Pardew should change our formation to suit one player?? No but he should change the formation/system to get the best out of the team and the players available. He's doing that at the moment. Personally I'd put Ben Arfa into a 4-4-2 and see how that goes before I start changing entire systems but certainly the rigid way we set up now is really restricting our play and not getting the best out of anyone other than maybe Ba. Fair point. Defensively is where we are lacking though, not attacking. Changing to have less in midfield for me (e.g. 433) wouldn't be 'the answer'. I disagree completely, we have been shocking in possession of the ball for the last six weeks, we have become almost entirely reliant to giving the ball to Ba and hoping he can do something with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 He's currently getting his name sung when he's not even on the pitch, the admins of this board have just closed a 1000 page thread on him and. It would be silly to suggest he is our most important player, because he's not (especially he hasn't managed a proper sting of games yet), but he's by far the biggest name we have. I remember well the days that Michael Owen played week in week out for us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Ben Arfa could be our star man - but currently isn't. That's all there is to it. i reckon the fact he isn't in the team is relevant He should be in the team, but I don't buy all this indispensible, our star player, build the team around him claptrap that is on here. Bit of a difference between building the team around him and not having him on the field at all, or for twenty minutes when chasing the game. Classic straw man, as Dave would say. I wouldn't build the team around Coloccini, that doesn't mean I'd have him on the fucking bench. Does he want to play on the right though? Pardew has insisted time after time that he wants a player to constantly knock on his door and say he wants to play. I am sure that if Ben Arfa asked to play on the right, and spent all week playing there in training, he'd be starting in that position instead of Sammy fucking Ameobi. Why does he have to play on the right? Sammy Ameobi's not been starting there so I've no idea where that comes from. Why should a player have to "knock on the manager's door" and tell him where he wants to play? "Sorry Tim, thought you'd have been a-knockin' this week and I've not heard from you so Rob's in goal today, he's been knock-knock-knockin' on Pardew's door all week" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Ben Arfa could be our star man - but currently isn't. That's all there is to it. i reckon the fact he isn't in the team is relevant It is. 1) It could be because he isn't putting the effort in in training. 2) It could be because we don't feel he has full match fitness yet. 3) It could be that he isn't one of Pardew's favourites. 4) It could be because when he has come on Pardew doesn't feel he as been as influential as he is supposed to be. ... so that's not all there is to it, that was my point Fair enough. Coloccini has an equal amount of technical ability to Ben Arfa - people just disregard it more because he isn't the goal-scorer he's the goal saver. Tackling is a technical ability as well which people sometimes forget. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Ben Arfa could be our star man - but currently isn't. That's all there is to it. i reckon the fact he isn't in the team is relevant It is. 1) It could be because he isn't putting the effort in in training. 2) It could be because we don't feel he has full match fitness yet. 3) It could be that he isn't one of Pardew's favourites. 4) It could be because when he has come on Pardew doesn't feel he as been as influential as he is supposed to be. He's not tall enough, he's not physical enough, he offers nothing defensively, we therefore defend more poorly as a team when he's one of our forwards, he absolutely needs to play up front and not on the wing, not least because he won't protect his full back to the level Obertan does, he's a difficult character who ruffles feathers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzle Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Ben Arfa could be our star man - but currently isn't. That's all there is to it. i reckon the fact he isn't in the team is relevant It is. 1) It could be because he isn't putting the effort in in training. 2) It could be because we don't feel he has full match fitness yet. 3) It could be that he isn't one of Pardew's favourites. 4) It could be because when he has come on Pardew doesn't feel he as been as influential as he is supposed to be. ... so that's not all there is to it, that was my point Fair enough. Coloccini has an equal amount of technical ability to Ben Arfa - people just disregard it more because he isn't the goal-scorer he's the goal saver. Tackling is a technical ability as well which people sometimes forget. I think technique is generally understand to mean ability with the ball at your feet though and Ben Arfa is better then Colo in that respect. Otherwise, last season you could have said Carroll was the most technically gifted player in the league based on his heading ability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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