Parky Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 A lot of blame gets heaped on the manager but the reason England continue to struggle is not because of poor managers or coahes but because as a game in general we are decades behind everyone else when it comes to kids' football. Go and watch a game of football between kids in England and then go and compare for example in say Holland (which I have done) and the differences are staggering. Their 7 year olds are better than our 7 year olds, they play better football, can play more than one position and the game itself is generally played on the deck. Having said that, our coaching standards are poor too. Small pitches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Is Scotland's any better? Why do they produce so many good ones, relative to the size of the country? Fergie is obviously world-class but Moyes, Dalglish et al are average or ordinary. I'd say as a whole British managers are not as good as their foreign counter-parts just like our footballers are not as good and I'd put that down to our mentality, culture and methods which start right athe very forefront of football - kids' football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 The Souness era was Shepherd's fault. Anyone that would prefer him to Ashley seriously needs their heads examened. The Shepherd regime had some fantastic times that help anyone debating on his side. Not many (well only HTL/NE5) would admit we weren't drastically in decline by the end of that regime though. Hopefully (won't hold my breath) Ashley is starting to get enough things right/a bit of luck and things are starting to click into place. We obviously won't get to the level we were on before due to the Chelsea/City cash cows but IF we continue to build like we have been recently and replace players sold (inevitable) with similar quality we can start to really challenge as a regular top 6 team imo which would be comparable to the Shepherd/Hall ownership imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 The Souness era was Shepherd's fault. Anyone that would prefer him to Ashley seriously needs their heads examened. I'd prefer Shepherd to Ashley because he understood football and had ambition even if it was more often than not misguided. The Souness era was disasterous for this club but nowhere near as disasterous as the Ashley era has been. shepered understood football lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 A lot of blame gets heaped on the manager but the reason England continue to struggle is not because of poor managers or coahes but because as a game in general we are decades behind everyone else when it comes to kids' football. Go and watch a game of football between kids in England and then go and compare for example in say Holland (which I have done) and the differences are staggering. Their 7 year olds are better than our 7 year olds, they play better football, can play more than one position and the game itself is generally played on the deck. Having said that, our coaching standards are poor too. Small pitches. Its ridiculous how kids as young as 10 are asked to play footy on adult size pitches. Go and watch an under-11 game in England and its ferocious, hoof ball, tackles flying in and very little football played. A typical championship game or average Premier League game really but with kids. Go and watch the equiverlent in Holland or Argentina... its a different ball game man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 The Souness era was Shepherd's fault. Anyone that would prefer him to Ashley seriously needs their heads examened. I'd prefer Shepherd to Ashley because he understood football and had ambition even if it was more often than not misguided. The Souness era was disasterous for this club but nowhere near as disasterous as the Ashley era has been. The only things Shepherd understood were eating pies and taking money out of the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Ridsdale took Leeds to the Champs League Semis, Bates got Chelsea in the top 4 a few times. If they offered to buy us would people take them over Ashley? Would they shite man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 The Souness era was Shepherd's fault. Anyone that would prefer him to Ashley seriously needs their heads examened. I'd prefer Shepherd to Ashley because he understood football and had ambition even if it was more often than not misguided. The Souness era was disasterous for this club but nowhere near as disasterous as the Ashley era has been. Aye, ambition to line his pockets while keeping the mongs in check with geordie nation platitudes and fatuous headline grabbing signings. The cnut. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 The Souness era was Shepherd's fault. Anyone that would prefer him to Ashley seriously needs their heads examened. I'd prefer Shepherd to Ashley because he understood football and had ambition even if it was more often than not misguided. The Souness era was disasterous for this club but nowhere near as disasterous as the Ashley era has been. shepered understood football lol He at least understood the concept of it. Ashley doesn't and never will because he's not a fan, never was and never will be. Ashley doesn't value a footballer, a fan or a manager, he values ecomonics and that's about it. To him a footballer is not a macth winner or a fan idol but an employee. Its the same with the manager. Fans are customers too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hobshobs Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Sad really that Bellamy was thrown out of the club and would have comfortably walked back into our team every season in the 8 years he's been gone. Compare the Bellamy performance for Liverpool against Man City last midweek with the Ameobi performance against Brighton last night. Bellamy = effort, committment and talent. Ameobi = complete and utter shite. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 The Souness era was Shepherd's fault. Anyone that would prefer him to Ashley seriously needs their heads examened. I'd prefer Shepherd to Ashley because he understood football and had ambition even if it was more often than not misguided. The Souness era was disasterous for this club but nowhere near as disasterous as the Ashley era has been. Aye, ambition to line his pockets while keeping the mongs in check with geordie nation platitudes and headline grabbing signings. The cnut. Hey, I can't stand the bloke, and was one of his biggest critics but compared to what Ashley is and how he's managed the club FS did far more and achieved far more. Not that I want to get drawn into an Ashley vs FS debate or old board vs new board debate. Lets not rewrite history here though because FS as bad as he was, was nowhere near as bad as Ashley has been and if we want to talk about achievements then, well, FS pisses all over Ashley in that sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 A lot of blame gets heaped on the manager but the reason England continue to struggle is not because of poor managers or coahes but because as a game in general we are decades behind everyone else when it comes to kids' football. Go and watch a game of football between kids in England and then go and compare for example in say Holland (which I have done) and the differences are staggering. Their 7 year olds are better than our 7 year olds, they play better football, can play more than one position and the game itself is generally played on the deck. Having said that, our coaching standards are poor too. Small pitches. Its ridiculous how kids as young as 10 are asked to play footy on adult size pitches. Go and watch an under-11 game in England and its ferocious, hoof ball, tackles flying in and very little football played. A typical championship game or average Premier League game really but with kids. Go and watch the equiverlent in Holland or Argentina... its a different ball game man. Oh I agree. Most Eng players will laugh if you tell them that the best part of a top class game is played in the mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjo Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Shepherd "understood" ambition. That´s about it. Luque transfer being a prime example. Had that been Ashley, we would have got him for what, 2/3 of the price, and on 2/3 of the wages he was offered? That would (at the time we got him) have been a great piece of business. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjo Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 oh, and btw. "Astute piece of business" by Shepherds standards was to sell Aaron Hughes, a still young and versatile defender, for £1m and sign Craig Moore on a free transfer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Sad really that Bellamy was thrown out of the club and would have comfortably walked back into our team every season in the 8 years he's been gone. Compare the Bellamy performance for Liverpool against Man City last midweek with the Ameobi performance against Brighton last night. Bellamy = effort, committment and talent. Ameobi = complete and utter shite. Yeah but as crap as Ameobi has always been, and as talented and extraordinarily driven Bellamy was and is, Ameobi isn't a CANCER EATING AT THE HEART OF OUR CLUB!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Shepherd was a clueless disgrace. In terms of success he was lucky we got somebody of the class of Bobby who did genuinely understand football. Not that it stopped him sacking him in the end and giving the gig to Souness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Banaloona Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Is Scotland's any better? Why do they produce so many good ones, relative to the size of the country? If you look closely at both FA's education structure in terms of the way they educate coaches. The Scots structure is far more geared towards the developing coach. More modules etc to take, with information being given in a lot smaller chunks rather than the FA's approach to doing three levels before you have your UEFA A. Three levels being Level2-UefaB-UefaA. Only recently has the FA took the Scot's approach in terms of introducing the youth modules. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hobshobs Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Sad really that Bellamy was thrown out of the club and would have comfortably walked back into our team every season in the 8 years he's been gone. Compare the Bellamy performance for Liverpool against Man City last midweek with the Ameobi performance against Brighton last night. Bellamy = effort, committment and talent. Ameobi = complete and utter s****. Yeah but as crap as Ameobi has always been, and as talented and extraordinarily driven Bellamy was and is, Ameobi isn't a CANCER EATING AT THE HEART OF OUR CLUB!!!!!! Good, we agree then, Ameobi is crap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Is Scotland's any better? Why do they produce so many good ones, relative to the size of the country? Fergie is obviously world-class but Moyes, Dalglish et al are average or ordinary. I'd say as a whole British managers are not as good as their foreign counter-parts just like our footballers are not as good and I'd put that down to our mentality, culture and methods which start right athe very forefront of football - kids' football. Disagree tbh mate, Dalglish has won the lot as a manager and is on course to win another trophy with Liverpool this year and Moyes has done a phenomenal job overall at Everton although they do seem to be now stagnating at best right now. Paul Lambert seems a good one as well, then you've got the likes of George Graham who won loads at Arsenal and Matt Busby, Bill Shankley, Jock Stein as one of the comments under this half-decent article points out: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/apr/28/scotland-managers-bossing-premier-league For such a small country it's pretty crazy really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Shepherd was hapless who thought the solution to everything was simply to throw money at it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Shame that you can count the number of genuinely Premier League quality Scottish players on 1 hand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Shepherd in a financial sense was to NUFC what Ashley is to us in a footballing sense - a fuctard to say the least. What NUFC needs is someone with a balance between the two if we are to ever be a successful consistent club. I know which kind of man between the two I'd rather have at NUFC though and the footballing man wins all the time because accountants and advisers will always keep a man like FS away from financial ruin. Indeed that's why he appointed Big Sam because he knew we could no longer spend spend spend. What keeps Mike Ashley away from football ruin? His mood it would appear, that and the Casino... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 A debate about Shepherd in 2012. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Is Scotland's any better? Why do they produce so many good ones, relative to the size of the country? Fergie is obviously world-class but Moyes, Dalglish et al are average or ordinary. I'd say as a whole British managers are not as good as their foreign counter-parts just like our footballers are not as good and I'd put that down to our mentality, culture and methods which start right athe very forefront of football - kids' football. Disagree tbh mate, Dalglish has won the lot as a manager and is on course to win another trophy with Liverpool this year and Moyes has done a phenomenal job overall at Everton although they do seem to be now stagnating at best right now. Paul Lambert seems a good one as well, then you've got the likes of George Graham who won loads at Arsenal and Matt Busby, Bill Shankley, Jock Stein as one of the comments under this half-decent article points out: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/apr/28/scotland-managers-bossing-premier-league For such a small country it's pretty crazy really. Oh aye, historically they have produced some great managers for such a small nations (and to be fair footballers too pre-90s) but as of today, for me, Moyes and Dalglish et al are no better than say Pardew or McLaren. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Moyes is much better than McClaren like imo. There's actually as many Welsh managers in the Premier League as there is English ones at the minute (3 of each). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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