Stephen Ireland

[Dave]

I'd rather we buy players based on expecting them to be a success than how easy it is to get rid of them if they're shit. If we buy him for as little as £2m and he's crap then realistically who's going to buy him irrespective of his wages? Only the types of clubs who can't afford £40k anyway would be interested, and on a free only.

 

Smith is useless. If he wasn't useless his wages would still be daft.

 

I'm not saying wages don't matter, obviously that's nonsense. I'm just saying that I personally don't care how much they're on, just how good they are.

[fredbob]

Completely beyond me why people give a shit about wages. Provided we can afford it overall (and that's more sure than ever before) then as far as I'm concerned it's totally irrelevant if they're doing the business on the pitch.

 

'£40k per week would be a great deal' - based on what? If he's useless then £1k per week is far too much.

 

Relics of a bygone era.

 

So the wage becomes relevant if they're not doing the business?

 

There is nothing wrong in taking the sensible view of seeing what it may cost the club should they fail, its almost as if you've forgotten about luque, emre and Owen.

 

Why wouldn't you want to take a look at value for money when you've already been stung so badly before?

 

Edit: value for money isn't the same as cheap as possible.

[Guest]

I'd rather we buy players based on expecting them to be a success than how easy it is to get rid of them if they're s***. If we buy him for as little as £2m and he's crap then realistically who's going to buy him irrespective of his wages? Only the types of clubs who can't afford £40k anyway would be interested, and on a free only.

 

Smith is useless. If he wasn't useless his wages would still be daft.

 

I'm not saying wages don't matter, obviously that's nonsense. I'm just saying that I personally don't care how much they're on, just how good they are.

 

I think with someone like Ireland you can see why we'd take the risk in sign him without plundering loads of cash at him though.

[Dave]

I'm a football fan. I want to see good, hopefully winning football on the pitch, that's my primary reason for going. The wages of the players, whether high or low are ultimately of little concern to me; players are either useful or they're not. Luque was rubbish, Emre so-so and Owen overall a disaster because of his injuries, attitude towards his England place and lack of balls when it really mattered. His comments since leaving prove what a wanker he is. If he'd done the business though I wouldn't have cared about the silly money he was on, just like I didn't care when Shearer was on silly money. I follow Newcastle United the football club, not their bank balance.

 

As I said before, by no means am I claiming the finances don't matter. Beats me why everyone wants to be an amateur accountant these days, that's all.

[Guest]

No-one's trying to be an amateur accountant?

 

But you can surely see why people are weary about handing out these massive contracts and fees after the way we've been stung since 2004 pretty much, going back to Carr, Butt, Kluivert, through to Boumsong & Babayaro then Luque & Owen, right upto the Smith's, Geremi's and latterly Xisco & Nacho?

 

[Dokko]

I'd rather we buy players based on expecting them to be a success than how easy it is to get rid of them if they're shit. If we buy him for as little as £2m and he's crap then realistically who's going to buy him irrespective of his wages? Only the types of clubs who can't afford £40k anyway would be interested, and on a free only.

 

Smith is useless. If he wasn't useless his wages would still be daft.

 

I'm not saying wages don't matter, obviously that's nonsense. I'm just saying that I personally don't care how much they're on, just how good they are.

 

I think it's best to plan for every outcome, every transfer is a gamble, I'd rather we gamble low like Ba than gamble like we have in the past with Owen and nearly sank the club.

 

Ireland isn't going to be terrible, he's easily worth £2m and it's a figure we'd realistically get back as long as his wages are not out of scope.

 

I care how much they are on, I don't want us paying players not worth their coin, and if it's too far out then you never get rid of them like Smith, being a financial noose around the clubs neck until the contract expires. If smith was on £40kpw now, and was 24-26 we would have offers for him, cash offers, not just pick up for free.

[Dave]

No-one's trying to be an amateur accountant?

 

But you can surely see why people are weary about handing out these massive contracts and fees after the way we've been stung since 2004 pretty much, going back to Carr, Butt, Kluivert, through to Boumsong & Babayaro then Luque & Owen, right upto the Smith's, Geremi's and latterly Xisco & Nacho?

 

 

I can see why people are weary about us signing players who are past their best or woefully out of form, yes. At present Ireland is one of those.

[Guest]

No better or worse than what Nolan was when we got him from Bolton to be fair.

[Dokko]

No-one's trying to be an amateur accountant?

 

But you can surely see why people are weary about handing out these massive contracts and fees after the way we've been stung since 2004 pretty much, going back to Carr, Butt, Kluivert, through to Boumsong & Babayaro then Luque & Owen, right upto the Smith's, Geremi's and latterly Xisco & Nacho?

 

 

I can see why people are weary about us signing crap players, yes. At present Ireland is one of those.

 

No one has problems with Erding, who is a massive risk of flopping, and could cost 5 times as much. Guess Ireland is too British for NUFC, who last time I checked still played in England.

[Ronaldo]

Where does 'woefully out of form' come from? He had 4 bad months with Villa.

[Ronaldo]

No-one's trying to be an amateur accountant?

 

But you can surely see why people are weary about handing out these massive contracts and fees after the way we've been stung since 2004 pretty much, going back to Carr, Butt, Kluivert, through to Boumsong & Babayaro then Luque & Owen, right upto the Smith's, Geremi's and latterly Xisco & Nacho?

 

 

I can see why people are weary about us signing crap players, yes. At present Ireland is one of those.

 

No one has problems with Erding, who is a massive risk of flopping, and could cost 5 times as much.

 

I do, for the record.

[Dave]

Where does 'woefully out of form' come from? He had 4 bad months with Villa.

 

Aye right.

[Guest]

Where does 'woefully out of form' come from? He had 4 bad months with Villa.

 

No no, he's crap and past it, not forgetting injury prone.

 

 

[Dave]

This is getting silly now, putting words in my mouth. Can't be bothered any more.

[johnnypd]

so we allegedly have this great worldwide scouting system and yet we're still interested in someone who hasnt played well for 2 years, was a joke and a failure here on loan, is incredibly weak, brittle and unstable mentally, has had one or two big injuries recently, and who, even at his best, is a good but limited mid-table to UEFA Cup standard player?

 

Now if he had the talent of a Ben Arfa, and it was the only way to get him, then i could see the reasoning. It would be a big risk, with all the warning signs flashing, and tbh, probably wouldn't work out. But you would be buying for the potential upside - the slim chance that the risk pays off. If it does, you get a world class player.

 

Now with Ireland, you get all the bad risks and downsides identified, but in the case of it working out, you only get a player who is....okay. decent. someone who had a promising season once a few years back. a lad who needs a side built around him only then to be half-decent rather than groundbreaking. quite simply not worth it. I know there's people on here who are advocating we sign Ireland but...listen to what's been said. Even the club are identifying him as a last resort, someone to go for on august 31st when all of our other options have been exhausted. I think they hope that never happens. I hope that never happens. If you actually hope that does happen, you're a goddamn idiot.

 

And that's not all, you can't look at buying Ireland in isolation. If we got him in - it would be instead of signing someone else. I'd rather have that "someone else" tyvm, especially with our allegedly great worldwide scouting system. there's plenty of good players out there who would play at SJP.

 

And why Barton's name has been brought into the mix i'll never know. They're different players who play in different positions. If you were talking about N'Zogbia there'd be a point to mentioning his name, but we're not.

[ponsaelius]

so we allegedly have this great worldwide scouting system and yet we're still interested in someone who hasnt played well for 2 years, was a joke and a failure here on loan, is incredibly weak, brittle and unstable mentally, has had one or two big injuries recently, and who, even at his best, is a good but limited mid-table to UEFA Cup standard player?

 

Now if he had the talent of a Ben Arfa, and it was the only way to get him, then i could see the reasoning. It would be a big risk, with all the warning signs flashing, and tbh, probably wouldn't work out. But you would be buying for the potential upside - the slim chance that the risk pays off. If it does, you get a world class player.

 

Now with Ireland, you get all the bad risks and downsides identified, but in the case of it working out, you only get a player who is....okay. decent. someone who had a promising season once a few years back. a lad who needs a side built around him only then to be half-decent rather than groundbreaking. quite simply not worth it. I know there's people on here who are advocating we sign Ireland but...listen to what's been said. Even the club are identifying him as a last resort, someone to go for on august 31st when all of our other options have been exhausted. I think they hope that never happens. I hope that never happens. If you actually hope that does happen, you're a goddamn idiot.

 

And that's not all, you can't look at buying Ireland in isolation. If we got him in - it would be instead of signing someone else. I'd rather have that "someone else" tyvm, especially with our allegedly great worldwide scouting system. there's plenty of good players out there who would play at SJP.

 

And why Barton's name has been brought into the mix i'll never know. They're different players who play in different positions. If you were talking about N'Zogbia there'd be a point to mentioning his name, but we're not.

 

Completely agree.

[Guest]

This is getting silly now, putting words in my mouth. Can't be bothered any more.

 

I wasn't meaning you personally but the general vibe of this thread, sorry if it came across that way.

[Ronaldo]

so we allegedly have this great worldwide scouting system and yet we're still interested in someone who hasnt played well for 2 years, was a joke and a failure here on loan, is incredibly weak, brittle and unstable mentally, has had one or two big injuries recently, and who, even at his best, is a good but limited mid-table to UEFA Cup standard player?

 

Now if he had the talent of a Ben Arfa, and it was the only way to get him, then i could see the reasoning. It would be a big risk, with all the warning signs flashing, and tbh, probably wouldn't work out. But you would be buying for the potential upside - the slim chance that the risk pays off. If it does, you get a world class player.

 

Now with Ireland, you get all the bad risks and downsides identified, but in the case of it working out, you only get a player who is....okay. decent. someone who had a promising season once a few years back. a lad who needs a side built around him only then to be half-decent rather than groundbreaking. quite simply not worth it. I know there's people on here who are advocating we sign Ireland but...listen to what's been said. Even the club are identifying him as a last resort, someone to go for on august 31st when all of our other options have been exhausted. I think they hope that never happens. I hope that never happens. If you actually hope that does happen, you're a goddamn idiot.

 

And that's not all, you can't look at buying Ireland in isolation. If we got him in - it would be instead of signing someone else. I'd rather have that "someone else" tyvm, especially with our allegedly great worldwide scouting system. there's plenty of good players out there who would play at SJP.

 

And why Barton's name has been brought into the mix i'll never know. They're different players who play in different positions. If you were talking about N'Zogbia there'd be a point to mentioning his name, but we're not.

 

I saw him play well for City less than 18 months ago.

[fredbob]

I'm a football fan. I want to see good, hopefully winning football on the pitch, that's my primary reason for going. The wages of the players, whether high or low are ultimately of little concern to me; players are either useful or they're not. Luque was rubbish, Emre so-so and Owen overall a disaster because of his injuries, attitude towards his England place and lack of balls when it really mattered. His comments since leaving prove what a wanker he is. If he'd done the business though I wouldn't have cared about the silly money he was on, just like I didn't care when Shearer was on silly money. I follow Newcastle United the football club, not their bank balance.

 

As I said before, by no means am I claiming the finances don't matter. Beats me why everyone wants to be an amateur accountant these days, that's all.

 

To be honest Dave, I'm only on my phone and haven't got time to address everything I feel is wrong with that post, would we be having this debate had sounds made a success of that team? No.

 

What that era did highlight though was how important it is to enforce accountability and some form of sensible transfer plan.

 

If you're mainly bothered about the quality of football that's played surely you should only be interested in the quality of player we sign rather than how much we spend on them? Do marveuax/ba/cabaye and Ben arfa not indicate an intention to buy quality players?

 

Remember, players that cost a lot now were good players before they became well known.

 

Id say if you're not interested in the finances, then why comment on them so frequently?

[junkhead]

so we allegedly have this great worldwide scouting system and yet we're still interested in someone who hasnt played well for 2 years, was a joke and a failure here on loan, is incredibly weak, brittle and unstable mentally, has had one or two big injuries recently, and who, even at his best, is a good but limited mid-table to UEFA Cup standard player?

 

Now if he had the talent of a Ben Arfa, and it was the only way to get him, then i could see the reasoning. It would be a big risk, with all the warning signs flashing, and tbh, probably wouldn't work out. But you would be buying for the potential upside - the slim chance that the risk pays off. If it does, you get a world class player.

 

Now with Ireland, you get all the bad risks and downsides identified, but in the case of it working out, you only get a player who is....okay. decent. someone who had a promising season once a few years back. a lad who needs a side built around him only then to be half-decent rather than groundbreaking. quite simply not worth it. I know there's people on here who are advocating we sign Ireland but...listen to what's been said. Even the club are identifying him as a last resort, someone to go for on august 31st when all of our other options have been exhausted. I think they hope that never happens. I hope that never happens. If you actually hope that does happen, you're a goddamn idiot.

 

And that's not all, you can't look at buying Ireland in isolation. If we got him in - it would be instead of signing someone else. I'd rather have that "someone else" tyvm, especially with our allegedly great worldwide scouting system. there's plenty of good players out there who would play at SJP.

 

And why Barton's name has been brought into the mix i'll never know. They're different players who play in different positions. If you were talking about N'Zogbia there'd be a point to mentioning his name, but we're not.

Perfectly said really

[Guest]

 

I saw him play well for City less than 18 months ago.

 

Aye, was only really when they went silly on the likes of Barry, De Jong, etc. that he lost his place and obviously his consistency suffered being in and mainly out of the team.

[ponsaelius]

Regardless of everything this is a guy who plays well solely as a withdrawn forward, the 'Ben Arfa role'. Signing him would make no sense as he'd be backup in that position, and aren't we currently trying to make sure we don't have any expensive backups?

 

Mind, they could be thinking of crowbarring him in at CM or out wide...which is even stupider.

[johnnypd]

oh yeah, and what's more, we've already signed Ben Arfa (been out for most a season and still not adjusted here), Marveaux (been out since November and has Dyer like groin problems) and Ba (had a problem with his ACL that could flare up at any point). Not entirely keen on going for another player with injury problems whose last, and only, good consistent season was 2008/09.

[Ronaldo]

As has already been stated, Ireland has averaged more than 30 games per season for the past 4 years.

[johnnypd]

Regardless of everything this is a guy who plays well solely a withdrawn forward, the 'Ben Arfa role'. Signing him would make no sense as he'd be backup in that position, and aren't we currently trying to make sure we don't have any expensive backups?

 

Mind, they could be thinking of crowbarring him in at CM or out wide...which is even stupider.

 

Indeed, looks poor playing any deeper than attacking midfield. furthermore, this is a player who has shown on plenty of occasions that if he is not in the first XI at a club and loved by the manager he gets disinterested, overweight and unfit. If we are looking for a squad player to bide his time on the bench and wait for an opportunity, it is frankly difficult to think of a worse option.