bealios Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Carroll would have been due a 'loyalty bonus' if he was transferred without officially requesting it. So, It seems like NUFC have said we will sell you for £35 million net. Either Liverpool can offer that + your bonus -something like 40 million- or you can put in a transfer request and forgo it. Given that he increases his wages and gets various other benefits from the deal, Carroll agrees to submit an official request. Both parties 'win'. The problem with this analysis is that if you are right, then it could just as easily been achieved by Carroll waiving the loyalty bonus, and avoid having to hand in a formal transfer request. Anyone can waive a benefit of a contract. He would have avoided the massive stigma of handing in a transfer request at your local club. So it can't have just been about avoiding the loyalty bonus. I think you're close though - I suspect Carroll wanted to go all along once he had his head turned. He's been on England duty, and stuck with those fuckers for a few days on massive wages can change things. There were stories on here all day yesterday from sources close to the player saying that wheels were in motion and he will be gone today. The personal terms had clearly been agreed well in advance. That isn't the conduct of a player who was reluctantly forced into going because Ashley wanted the cash. Carroll met with the club early yesterday morning, and once it was made clear he wanted to go, then all that NUFC could do is maximise value, but knowing that if Liverpool didn't stump up the price then they still wouldn't lose - they could still sell him in the summer. I genuinely believe they rejected £35m, but did so knowing that Liverpool were desparate, and anticipating a higher bid. Carroll was then advised by his agent to hand in a transfer request. This forced the issue, meant that NUFC get a higher fee due to the loyalty bonus not being paid, and also have an opportunity to save face as they only sold as they were forced to. This means the £35m became immediately more attractive, financially and from a PR perspective. All of the above fits with what we saw happened yesterday, it is consistent with all of the "sources" close to the player, and consistent with statements made by both clubs, and is entirely logical. No conspiracy at all. NUFC behaving like a business. Carroll behaving like a footballer. Move on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 A. Liverpool make an offer club reject it, Andy gets a little interested, Liverpool up their offer we reject it Andy thinks hmm I want to go hands in transfer request. Club say its a massive amount he wants to go okay take it. B. Liverpool make an offer club reject it waiting for more, Liverpool offer enough but Ashley knows there will be hell on, reject it tell Andy to get on his bike, leak to media he asked to go. C. Liverpool make an offer club reject it, Liverpool offer more we reject it, Liverpool think how far do we have to go, after already making their offer to Andy Liverpool as him to hand in a transfer request, and they will make it worth his while as he will lose his loyalty bonus. Wnd of the day he is gone and no matter what we all know if we are honest its an amazing fee, they have paid WAY over the top for him. Our only worry should be the rest of this season and if Ashley will reinvest the money in the squad come the summer. Liverpool now have a player who will chin team mates, get into bother away from the club, act like a complete knob. Score them a few goals THEY HOPE. He has only had half a good Prem season for us after all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ovesbar Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Why do you think the Tottenham bid rumours surfaced all through January? To draw out other interested parties. It was always NUFC's intention to sell him this month. Dark forces at work. Of course. This is ultimately why Hughton was sacked because Llambias and Ashley knew they wouldn't be able to shift Carroll with Hughton still in post. Its all been very carefully orchestrated by NUFC, starting with Hughtons sacking and the appointment of no mark yes man Pardew. Do you honestly believe that Hughton would have been able to stop this kind of transfer anyway? In that case, how? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I find it astounding that people are more inclined to believe Ashley's spin on this than Carroll's, just because it makes sense. Ashley and sense don't go hand in hand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Antec Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 People looking for excuses to believe Ashley. Mongs For me, with the Keegan, Given and now Carroll sagas it all comes down to one thing in the abscence of 100% irrefutible proof WHO DO YOU TRUST? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I find it astounding that people are more inclined to believe Ashley's spin on this than Carroll's, just because it makes sense. Ashley and sense don't go hand in hand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 My guess. Once Liverpool offered 35m Ashley decided he'd be willing to sell. (Hard to really blame him at that either price, IMO) However, I don't think he was desperate to sell either, so he calls Carroll('s agent) and tells him he has an offer that he'd be willing to accept, but he'll only do so if Carroll puts in a transfer request. If Carroll wants to stay, he won't force him to go and will be happy to keep him. Essentially he put the decision in Carroll's hands, and Carroll f***ed us. I'm inclined to believe that It's also the only 'theory' that explains why the transfer request was made. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 My guess. Once Liverpool offered 35m Ashley decided he'd be willing to sell. (Hard to really blame him at that either price, IMO) However, I don't think he was desperate to sell either, so he calls Carroll('s agent) and tells him he has an offer that he'd be willing to accept, but he'll only do so if Carroll puts in a transfer request. If Carroll wants to stay, he won't force him to go and will be happy to keep him. Essentially he put the decision in Carroll's hands, and Carroll f***ed us. I'm inclined to believe that It's also the only 'theory' that explains why the transfer request was made. Thats a very realistic theory... agent furled deal ? who is Carroll's agent? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shaun Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_6715729,00.html His smug grin angers me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 he's probabaly been desperate to leave his old life behind and start afresh. apparently was being bothered by people he knew growing up. that car burning couldnt have helped. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 he's probabaly been desperate to leave his old life behind and start afresh. apparently was being bothered by people he knew growing up. that car burning couldnt have helped. don't even think that. to me it was a snap decision and as of yesterday morning he'd have been more than happy to stay but as the proposition was actually put to him, well, not many people would turn down that sort of cash. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 People looking for excuses to believe Ashley. Mongs I think it's the other way around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Occam's Razor, parky. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shaun Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 he's probabaly been desperate to leave his old life behind and start afresh. apparently was being bothered by people he knew growing up. that car burning couldnt have helped. don't even think that. to me it was a snap decision and as of yesterday morning he'd have been more than happy to stay but as the proposition was actually put to him, well, not many people would turn down that sort of cash. That's it really. We can't judge unless we all had an offer earning of 80k p/w. I doubt anyone would turn it down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 The problem with this analysis is that if you are right, then it could just as easily been achieved by Carroll waiving the loyalty bonus, and avoid having to hand in a formal transfer request. Anyone can waive a benefit of a contract. He would have avoided the massive stigma of handing in a transfer request at your local club. So it can't have just been about avoiding the loyalty bonus. I think you're close though - I suspect Carroll wanted to go all along once he had his head turned. He's been on England duty, and stuck with those fuckers for a few days on massive wages can change things. There were stories on here all day yesterday from sources close to the player saying that wheels were in motion and he will be gone today. The personal terms had clearly been agreed well in advance. That isn't the conduct of a player who was reluctantly forced into going because Ashley wanted the cash. Carroll met with the club early yesterday morning, and once it was made clear he wanted to go, then all that NUFC could do is maximise value, but knowing that if Liverpool didn't stump up the price then they still wouldn't lose - they could still sell him in the summer. I genuinely believe they rejected £35m, but did so knowing that Liverpool were desparate, and anticipating a higher bid. Carroll was then advised by his agent to hand in a transfer request. This forced the issue, meant that NUFC get a higher fee due to the loyalty bonus not being paid, and also have an opportunity to save face as they only sold as they were forced to. This means the £35m became immediately more attractive, financially and from a PR perspective. All of the above fits with what we saw happened yesterday, it is consistent with all of the "sources" close to the player, and consistent with statements made by both clubs, and is entirely logical. No conspiracy at all. NUFC behaving like a business. Carroll behaving like a footballer. Move on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 The problem with this analysis is that if you are right, then it could just as easily been achieved by Carroll waiving the loyalty bonus, and avoid having to hand in a formal transfer request. Anyone can waive a benefit of a contract. He would have avoided the massive stigma of handing in a transfer request at your local club. So it can't have just been about avoiding the loyalty bonus. I think you're close though - I suspect Carroll wanted to go all along once he had his head turned. He's been on England duty, and stuck with those fuckers for a few days on massive wages can change things. There were stories on here all day yesterday from sources close to the player saying that wheels were in motion and he will be gone today. The personal terms had clearly been agreed well in advance. That isn't the conduct of a player who was reluctantly forced into going because Ashley wanted the cash. Carroll met with the club early yesterday morning, and once it was made clear he wanted to go, then all that NUFC could do is maximise value, but knowing that if Liverpool didn't stump up the price then they still wouldn't lose - they could still sell him in the summer. I genuinely believe they rejected £35m, but did so knowing that Liverpool were desparate, and anticipating a higher bid. Carroll was then advised by his agent to hand in a transfer request. This forced the issue, meant that NUFC get a higher fee due to the loyalty bonus not being paid, and also have an opportunity to save face as they only sold as they were forced to. This means the £35m became immediately more attractive, financially and from a PR perspective. All of the above fits with what we saw happened yesterday, it is consistent with all of the "sources" close to the player, and consistent with statements made by both clubs, and is entirely logical. No conspiracy at all. NUFC behaving like a business. Carroll behaving like a footballer. Move on. thats how i see it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 The problem with this analysis is that if you are right, then it could just as easily been achieved by Carroll waiving the loyalty bonus, and avoid having to hand in a formal transfer request. Anyone can waive a benefit of a contract. He would have avoided the massive stigma of handing in a transfer request at your local club. So it can't have just been about avoiding the loyalty bonus. I think you're close though - I suspect Carroll wanted to go all along once he had his head turned. He's been on England duty, and stuck with those fuckers for a few days on massive wages can change things. There were stories on here all day yesterday from sources close to the player saying that wheels were in motion and he will be gone today. The personal terms had clearly been agreed well in advance. That isn't the conduct of a player who was reluctantly forced into going because Ashley wanted the cash. Carroll met with the club early yesterday morning, and once it was made clear he wanted to go, then all that NUFC could do is maximise value, but knowing that if Liverpool didn't stump up the price then they still wouldn't lose - they could still sell him in the summer. I genuinely believe they rejected £35m, but did so knowing that Liverpool were desparate, and anticipating a higher bid. Carroll was then advised by his agent to hand in a transfer request. This forced the issue, meant that NUFC get a higher fee due to the loyalty bonus not being paid, and also have an opportunity to save face as they only sold as they were forced to. This means the £35m became immediately more attractive, financially and from a PR perspective. All of the above fits with what we saw happened yesterday, it is consistent with all of the "sources" close to the player, and consistent with statements made by both clubs, and is entirely logical. No conspiracy at all. NUFC behaving like a business. Carroll behaving like a footballer. Move on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shaun Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 How much is a loyalty bonus? is it 10%? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueStar Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 RT @CaulkinTheTimes Carroll was not agitating to leave. He wasn't unsettled. And, yes, the transfer request was a mechanism used by #Nufc. But ... he signed it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 How much is a loyalty bonus? is it 10%? Players are not bothered about them as there agent will collect any loss of £££'s at the other end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 How much is a loyalty bonus? is it 10%? I think it was £350k for Barton when he joined us, so about 7% of the fee. Man City refused to pay it to him, so we did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Antec Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 RT @CaulkinTheTimes Carroll was not agitating to leave. He wasn't unsettled. And, yes, the transfer request was a mechanism used by #Nufc. But ... he signed it. Well well well Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dazh Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 People are missing the point looking for whose fault it is. It was clearly a mutually beneficial deal for the club and AC, and the opinion of the fans doesn't even come into it. The biggest issue is that they did the deal with no time to reinvest the money in a replacement (or two/three), leaving us with a massively under-par strike force with the best part of half the season left in a very tight league where a run of 4 or 5 losses can put you in the relegation zone. It's just yet another example of Ashley's impulsive, ill-informed and idiotic decision making processes. It doesn't take a genius to work out that keeping him until the summer in order to ensure premier league status and accepting 5 - 10 million less for him would have been a much lower risk strategy which keeps all parties happy. Or maybe Ashley had no confidence that we could survive with him anyway, and he didn't want to risk losing the huge fee in the event of us being relegated, which is perhaps an even more disturbing prospect? Either way though if we get relegated that £35M will start to look like small change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyoldman Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 The problem with this analysis is that if you are right, then it could just as easily been achieved by Carroll waiving the loyalty bonus, and avoid having to hand in a formal transfer request. Anyone can waive a benefit of a contract. He would have avoided the massive stigma of handing in a transfer request at your local club. So it can't have just been about avoiding the loyalty bonus. I think you're close though - I suspect Carroll wanted to go all along once he had his head turned. He's been on England duty, and stuck with those fuckers for a few days on massive wages can change things. There were stories on here all day yesterday from sources close to the player saying that wheels were in motion and he will be gone today. The personal terms had clearly been agreed well in advance. That isn't the conduct of a player who was reluctantly forced into going because Ashley wanted the cash. Carroll met with the club early yesterday morning, and once it was made clear he wanted to go, then all that NUFC could do is maximise value, but knowing that if Liverpool didn't stump up the price then they still wouldn't lose - they could still sell him in the summer. I genuinely believe they rejected £35m, but did so knowing that Liverpool were desparate, and anticipating a higher bid. Carroll was then advised by his agent to hand in a transfer request. This forced the issue, meant that NUFC get a higher fee due to the loyalty bonus not being paid, and also have an opportunity to save face as they only sold as they were forced to. This means the £35m became immediately more attractive, financially and from a PR perspective. All of the above fits with what we saw happened yesterday, it is consistent with all of the "sources" close to the player, and consistent with statements made by both clubs, and is entirely logical. No conspiracy at all. NUFC behaving like a business. Carroll behaving like a footballer. Move on. I've been really trying to get my head round the reason for the transfer request. This seems the most logical explanation I've seen so far. At the end of the day money is king. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Logic Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 People are missing the point looking for whose fault it is. It was clearly a mutually beneficial deal for the club and AC, and the opinion of the fans doesn't even come into it. The biggest issue is that they did the deal with no time to reinvest the money in a replacement (or two/three), leaving us with a massively under-par strike force with the best part of half the season left in a very tight league where a run of 4 or 5 losses can put you in the relegation zone. It's just yet another example of Ashley's impulsive, ill-informed and idiotic decision making processes. It doesn't take a genius to work out that keeping him until the summer in order to ensure premier league status and accepting 5 - 10 million less for him would have been a much lower risk strategy which keeps all parties happy. Or maybe Ashley had no confidence that we could survive with him anyway, and he didn't want to risk losing the huge fee in the event of us being relegated, which is perhaps an even more disturbing prospect? Either way though if we get relegated that £35M will start to look like small change. I suspect the opposite.. Ashley had confidence we could survive without him. The Sunderland and Tottenham results would have seen to that, they'd have been 6 points but for a flukey deflection and a last minute defensive error. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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