madras Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Personally, I just can't see things in a positive light. It may be because I'm a miserable b****** but for me, getting rid of Hughton and selling Carroll were two huge mistakes.. The kind of mistakes that can destroy a club. I know that we have to move on and the players seem to have done just that, still I can't help but feel disillusioned about Ashley's tenure.. I'd prefer to be optimistic like but there's nothing I can do about it, it all comes from the heart. The sale of Carroll also has the potential to make this club. This summer is going to be a big one. aye, one way or the other. Personally, I'm not bothered about what percentage of Carroll's transfer is spent, only that whatever is spent is done so in the best interests of the playing squad and that gaps are filled and filled proficiently, which in my opinion have been a strong point of the Ashley 'reign'. i've been saying that but it seems to fall on deaf eras. i don't care if it's spent on trnasfer fees, wages, etc providing it's used to improve the squad significantly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I just can't see how the squad will be improved - at all, never mind 'significantly' - by selling our best players. And if we spend a shitload of money simply replacing them, what exactly was the point? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Now we're more or less safe (touch wood) it's a case of wait and see. We need to sort the future's of both Barton and Enrique and there was talk sorting a new deal for Tiote. Same goes for the Carroll cash, we can only hope it is reinvested in the team. People can sit and speculate but at the end of the day we don't know what's going through the minds of the powers that be. It's certianly going to be a significant summer one way or the other. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Some of the ones on huge wages left anyway. those that were offered it. th rest stayed as no-one wanted them or wouldn't meet their prices. Exactly. In that way we were lucky, as I think if he had the choice Ashley would have sold off more players, and we may have struggled to get promoted. Forced ambition if you like. This season we've only had an average injury list, and not all at the same time, so it hasn't impacted us so much. The players still with us who got relegated have done far better than most expected. Tiote was a good piece of scouting no doubt, but there's also luck that a player who was a sub in a Dutch team hit the ground running in the Prem, and we were especially lucky with the way Carroll developed, as going into the season our strikeforce looked terrible. so surely the things that have gone against us must be unlucky then or does it only work one way ? I'd expect a mixture of good and bad luck. This season aside from a few injuries, it's mostly been good luck on the playing front, and most of the players have hit good form. When we got relegated there was a bit of bad luck, yes, especially with all our strikers and attacking midfielders playing poorly at the same time in the second half of the season, but we should never have been in the position where a bit of bad luck was enough to get us relegated. That took help from a lot of poor decisions from the management. For a club of our means, a season of bad luck should mean a bottom half finish at worst. but it's not luck either way that the majority of our squad stayed due to being on high enough wages to put everyone else off. It wasn't luck that got us into that situation, no, it was down to Ashley's choice to give them those contracts. But once there I'd say it was fortunate (form our point of view as supporters) we were somewhat hamstrung in who we could easily dispose of, as given a free choice I think Ashley would have let more go. Clubs might have preferred to buy Coloccini and Jonas ahead of Martins and Duff... Then where would be have been? Martins and Duff would have raped the Championship. If they'd stirred themselves from the physio room. They'd have raped the Championship with one leg missing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I just can't see how the squad will be improved - at all, never mind 'significantly' - by selling our best players. And if we spend a shitload of money simply replacing them, what exactly was the point? This is just assuming that all we'll do is replace the players whilst not strengthening other areas of the squad. That's a pretty absolute scenario. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I just can't see how the squad will be improved - at all, never mind 'significantly' - by selling our best players. And if we spend a shitload of money simply replacing them, what exactly was the point? This is just assuming that all we'll do is replace the players whilst not strengthening other areas of the squad. Just how much money do you think we will spend?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I just can't see how the squad will be improved - at all, never mind 'significantly' - by selling our best players. And if we spend a shitload of money simply replacing them, what exactly was the point? Try looking at Everton and the sale of Rooney. Maybe that'll help you figure it out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I just can't see how the squad will be improved - at all, never mind 'significantly' - by selling our best players. And if we spend a shitload of money simply replacing them, what exactly was the point? Try looking at Everton and the sale of Rooney. Maybe that'll help you figure it out. Can you explain how much of the money they spent, who they bought and what difference it made to their fortunes? Edit - I've done it for you, have a look down. Btw my post used plural. I wasn't just talking about Carroll. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Everton have done blindingly since they sold Rooney like. One Champions League qualifier, which they lost. Get the bunting out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I just can't see how the squad will be improved - at all, never mind 'significantly' - by selling our best players. And if we spend a shitload of money simply replacing them, what exactly was the point? This is just assuming that all we'll do is replace the players whilst not strengthening other areas of the squad. Just how much money do you think we will spend?! Approximately £10m net. What will happen though is that we'll make a profit. Enrique will go and Tiote will go they'll both be adequately replaced at a fraction of the price and we'll still add to the strength of the squad in other areas (on paper) whilst not spending more than what we've recieved. There will be huge uproar from the crowd, we'll be in turmoil again at the begninng of the season the squad performances will suffer - Pardew will be made the scapegoat we get a new manager things start to improve we put together a decent run, get a decent league positions and the transfer window spend is validated in Ashley's eyes, repeat ad nauseam. In my eyes I see a squad that has improved irrespective of the amount of money spent, I see no reason to be in uproar. In reality the majority won't see it that way. Maybe the majority are right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Everton have done blindingly since they sold Rooney like. One Champions League qualifier, which they lost. Get the bunting out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrigan Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Got to think if you were told at the start of the season all of the results we have acheived , no doubt we would have all laughed ! The only real disaapointment in my eyes is ben arfa breaking his leg as imagine where we could be if he had been fit all season, yes i know we could have done without the drama of losing hughton etc but it is drama like that, which makes us all love NUFC! If we can keep up our defensive record and tiote not getting the yellow cards then i can see us finishing in a posistion that we would never have imagined before the start of the season Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Everton sold Wayne Rooney on 31st August 2004. When the January 2005 transfer window opened, they were in 4th position in the table. That January they added James Beattie for £6.5m, Mikel Arteta on loan for £1m and then in February(?) bought Nick Chadwick for £250k. They finished the season in 4th. The following season they finished 11th. Sources: http://www.toffeeweb.com/players/transfers.asp http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2004-2005/table/2004-12-29 http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2004-2005/table http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2005-2006/table Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Got to laugh at Everton being used as an example. Kenwright rivals Ashley for lack of ambition, he's a very hated man on the blue side of Liverpool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMTEX Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 If this is 'looking on the bright side' I'd fucking hate to see the negativity thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Got to laugh at Everton being used as an example. Kenwright rivals Ashley for lack of ambition, he's a very hated man on the blue side of Liverpool. Kenwright has got no money behind him whatsoever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Got to laugh at Everton being used as an example. Kenwright rivals Ashley for lack of ambition, he's a very hated man on the blue side of Liverpool. Kenwright has got no money behind him whatsoever. Never said he had, did I? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Everton sold Wayne Rooney on 31st August 2004. When the January 2005 transfer window opened, they were in 4th position in the table. That January they added James Beattie for £6.5m, Mikel Arteta on loan for £1m and then in February(?) bought Nick Chadwick for £250k. They finished the season in 4th. The following season they finished 11th. Sources: http://www.toffeeweb.com/players/transfers.asp http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2004-2005/table/2004-12-29 http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2004-2005/table http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2005-2006/table Come on Dave, you're better than this. 2009-10 8th 2007-08 5th 2006-07 6th 2005-06 11th 2004-05 4th 2003-04 17th 2002-03 7th 2001-02 15th 2000-01 16th 1999-2000 13th 2004/05 was the season that Rooney was sold, obviously this season is looking crap for them. Obviosuly this doesn't take the management skills of Moyes into account but we dont seem to be interested in what a manager does for the team anyway when it comes how much moolah we spend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Everton sold Wayne Rooney on 31st August 2004. When the January 2005 transfer window opened, they were in 4th position in the table. That January they added James Beattie for £6.5m, Mikel Arteta on loan for £1m and then in February(?) bought Nick Chadwick for £250k. They finished the season in 4th. The following season they finished 11th. Sources: http://www.toffeeweb.com/players/transfers.asp http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2004-2005/table/2004-12-29 http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2004-2005/table http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2005-2006/table Come on Dave, you're better than this. 2009-10 8th 2007-08 5th 2006-07 6th 2005-06 11th 2004-05 4th 2003-04 17th 2002-03 7th 2001-02 15th 2000-01 16th 1999-2000 13th 2004/05 was the season that Rooney was sold, obviously this season is looking crap for them. Obviosuly this doesn't take the management skills of Moyes into account but we dont seem to be interested in what a manager does for the team anyway when it comes how much moolah we spend. Is that no what Dave just said? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 If this is 'looking on the bright side' I'd fucking hate to see the negativity thread. There are plenty of things to be positive and hopeful about. Unfortunately they are currently overshadowed by people and their reputations that directly threaten those same things. Many fans are uncertain about the future, and no amount of happy clapping will change that. I don't see the problem with pointing out that there may be trouble ahead; it's not like there is a lack of evidence of it happening before. There's nothing unreasonable in this thread. Hope for the best, expect the worst. It's what I've been doing with NUFC for a long time now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Everton sold Wayne Rooney on 31st August 2004. When the January 2005 transfer window opened, they were in 4th position in the table. That January they added James Beattie for £6.5m, Mikel Arteta on loan for £1m and then in February(?) bought Nick Chadwick for £250k. They finished the season in 4th. The following season they finished 11th. Sources: http://www.toffeeweb.com/players/transfers.asp http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2004-2005/table/2004-12-29 http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2004-2005/table http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2005-2006/table Come on Dave, you're better than this. 2009-10 8th 2007-08 5th 2006-07 6th 2005-06 11th 2004-05 4th 2003-04 17th 2002-03 7th 2001-02 15th 2000-01 16th 1999-2000 13th 2004/05 was the season that Rooney was sold, obviously this season is looking crap for them. Obviosuly this doesn't take the management skills of Moyes into account but we dont seem to be interested in what a manager does for the team anyway when it comes how much moolah we spend. Is that no what Dave just said? More the implication that Everton haven't benefitted from the sale of Rooney when there league positions post Rooney suggest otherwise, that was the point we were debating wasn't it?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Everton sold Wayne Rooney on 31st August 2004. When the January 2005 transfer window opened, they were in 4th position in the table. That January they added James Beattie for £6.5m, Mikel Arteta on loan for £1m and then in February(?) bought Nick Chadwick for £250k. They finished the season in 4th. The following season they finished 11th. Sources: http://www.toffeeweb.com/players/transfers.asp http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2004-2005/table/2004-12-29 http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2004-2005/table http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2005-2006/table Come on Dave, you're better than this. 2009-10 8th 2007-08 5th 2006-07 6th 2005-06 11th 2004-05 4th 2003-04 17th 2002-03 7th 2001-02 15th 2000-01 16th 1999-2000 13th 2004/05 was the season that Rooney was sold, obviously this season is looking crap for them. Obviosuly this doesn't take the management skills of Moyes into account but we dont seem to be interested in what a manager does for the team anyway when it comes how much moolah we spend. What are you implying then? That Everton strengthened the squad by selling their best player and not buying anyone? If they'd kept Rooney, they might have won that Champions League qualifier and who knows what that money would have done for them? They'd probably have gotten as much for that as they did for Rooney, but they'd still have had him. Everton are the perfect example of what not to do when you've got good players. Simple stuff this like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Everton sold Wayne Rooney on 31st August 2004. When the January 2005 transfer window opened, they were in 4th position in the table. That January they added James Beattie for £6.5m, Mikel Arteta on loan for £1m and then in February(?) bought Nick Chadwick for £250k. They finished the season in 4th. The following season they finished 11th. Sources: http://www.toffeeweb.com/players/transfers.asp http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2004-2005/table/2004-12-29 http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2004-2005/table http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2005-2006/table Come on Dave, you're better than this. 2009-10 8th 2007-08 5th 2006-07 6th 2005-06 11th 2004-05 4th 2003-04 17th 2002-03 7th 2001-02 15th 2000-01 16th 1999-2000 13th 2004/05 was the season that Rooney was sold, obviously this season is looking crap for them. Obviosuly this doesn't take the management skills of Moyes into account but we dont seem to be interested in what a manager does for the team anyway when it comes how much moolah we spend. My point was that Everton were perfectly capable of finishing 4th that year anyway. They were clear in 4th halfway through the season, before they even had chance to 'strengthen' with the Rooney money. They hardly spent extravagantly in January to ensure that finish either. The year after they actually went backwards, a lot. Rubbish example, IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Everton sold Wayne Rooney on 31st August 2004. When the January 2005 transfer window opened, they were in 4th position in the table. That January they added James Beattie for £6.5m, Mikel Arteta on loan for £1m and then in February(?) bought Nick Chadwick for £250k. They finished the season in 4th. The following season they finished 11th. Sources: http://www.toffeeweb.com/players/transfers.asp http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2004-2005/table/2004-12-29 http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2004-2005/table http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2005-2006/table Come on Dave, you're better than this. 2009-10 8th 2007-08 5th 2006-07 6th 2005-06 11th 2004-05 4th 2003-04 17th 2002-03 7th 2001-02 15th 2000-01 16th 1999-2000 13th 2004/05 was the season that Rooney was sold, obviously this season is looking crap for them. Obviosuly this doesn't take the management skills of Moyes into account but we dont seem to be interested in what a manager does for the team anyway when it comes how much moolah we spend. What are you implying then? That Everton strengthened the squad by selling their best player and not buying anyone? If they'd kept Rooney, they might have won that Champions League qualifier and who knows what that money would have done for them? They'd probably have gotten as much for that as they did for Rooney, but they'd still have had him. Everton are the perfect example of what not to do when you've got good players. Simple stuff this like. To be honest, I was just showing the other side of the coin. Can't really be bothered to give you a proper reply because I usually get pure crap out of you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Everton sold Wayne Rooney on 31st August 2004. When the January 2005 transfer window opened, they were in 4th position in the table. That January they added James Beattie for £6.5m, Mikel Arteta on loan for £1m and then in February(?) bought Nick Chadwick for £250k. They finished the season in 4th. The following season they finished 11th. Sources: http://www.toffeeweb.com/players/transfers.asp http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2004-2005/table/2004-12-29 http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2004-2005/table http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2005-2006/table Come on Dave, you're better than this. 2009-10 8th 2007-08 5th 2006-07 6th 2005-06 11th 2004-05 4th 2003-04 17th 2002-03 7th 2001-02 15th 2000-01 16th 1999-2000 13th 2004/05 was the season that Rooney was sold, obviously this season is looking crap for them. Obviosuly this doesn't take the management skills of Moyes into account but we dont seem to be interested in what a manager does for the team anyway when it comes how much moolah we spend. What are you implying then? That Everton strengthened the squad by selling their best player and not buying anyone? If they'd kept Rooney, they might have won that Champions League qualifier and who knows what that money would have done for them? They'd probably have gotten as much for that as they did for Rooney, but they'd still have had him. Everton are the perfect example of what not to do when you've got good players. Simple stuff this like. To be honest, I was just showing the other side of the coin. Can't really be bothered to give you a proper reply because I usually get pure crap out of you. http://www.oneinchpunch.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/extreme-ironing-05.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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