Short termism and NUFC fans.

[brummie]

What I don't really understand - and this is about ALL football fans, not Newcastle fans - is why supporters go so happily into "self flagellation" mode, turning on each other, pointing the finger, "you're a kneejerker", "you're a happy clapper", "you're not the right sort of supporter" - basically, all these things boil down to "you don't agree with me, so there's clearly something wrong with you".

 

Someone made a point further up this thread about what do people expect from fans the way the game is these days, and they're absolutely fucking bang on the money.

 

It strikes me that now, when agents constantly agitate for moves for their players, when clubs shaft supporters left, right and centre, but expect unquestioned support back, when the needs of Sky and Murdoch's pernicious empire outrank all other concerns, when players spout loyalty one day then, lured by money, walk away with as much concern as you or I would exhibit when choosing Starbucks ahead of Costa (something which we see even from "born and bred" fan players nowadays), when we're asked to pay the highest ticket prices in Europe but to shut up, sit down, and don't cause any nuisance, when we're asked to keep on coming week after week despite our clubs - often big, historic clubs - having absolutely ZERO chance of winning the league, when the concept of "building" something is pointless as as soon as you get a decent player, along will come Man City or some other bunch of classless fucking arrivistes waving their money to take your player at will, well, when you have all that, it strikes me that there is easily enough to moan about to make complaining about other supporters a bit low rent.

 

Incidentally, what on earth is "impatient" in the context of football, and more so in the context of a club who have won the square root of fuck all for decades now? It sounds to me like one of those new "suits all purposes" insults that gets thrown at football supporters by idiotic columnists (cretins like Rod Liddle) - stop being so impatient, shut up, pay for your season ticket and keep the bandwagon rolling. After all, what right do you have to expect something back in return?

 

 

 

[Dave]

[colinmk]

What I don't really understand - and this is about ALL football fans, not Newcastle fans - is why supporters go so happily into "self flagellation" mode, turning on each other, pointing the finger, "you're a kneejerker", "you're a happy clapper", "you're not the right sort of supporter" - basically, all these things boil down to "you don't agree with me, so there's clearly something wrong with you".

 

Someone made a point further up this thread about what do people expect from fans the way the game is these days, and they're absolutely fucking bang on the money.

 

It strikes me that now, when agents constantly agitate for moves for their players, when clubs shaft supporters left, right and centre, but expect unquestioned support back, when the needs of Sky and Murdoch's pernicious empire outrank all other concerns, when players spout loyalty one day then, lured by money, walk away with as much concern as you or I would exhibit when choosing Starbucks ahead of Costa (something which we see even from "born and bred" fan players nowadays), when we're asked to pay the highest ticket prices in Europe but to shut up, sit down, and don't cause any nuisance, when we're asked to keep on coming week after week despite our clubs - often big, historic clubs - having absolutely ZERO chance of winning the league, when the concept of "building" something is pointless as as soon as you get a decent player, along will come Man City or some other bunch of classless fucking arrivistes waving their money to take your player at will, well, when you have all that, it strikes me that there is easily enough to moan about to make complaining about other supporters a bit low rent.

 

Incidentally, what on earth is "impatient" in the context of football, and more so in the context of a club who have won the square root of fuck all for decades now? It sounds to me like one of those new "suits all purposes" insults that gets thrown at football supporters by idiotic columnists (cretins like Rod Liddle) - stop being so impatient, shut up, pay for your season ticket and keep the bandwagon rolling. After all, what right do you have to expect something back in return?

 

 

 

 

Agree with every word Brummie you mad happy clapping knee-jerker! Outstanding post. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Post of the year.

 

(Although I do agree with steady progress!)

[Punk77]

I think you're spot on Brummie regarding the development of football generally. PL got to do as Germany, as I've mentioned before, and the NHL-league in USA. The former has lowered ticket prices, focused on lowering salaries and renovating stadiums. A ticket in Germany can cost as low as EUR 8, which  has led to the highest attendance in Europe. NHL have salary restrictions that reflects the leagues total turnover (doesn't know the specifics, maybe some americatoons could enlighten us?) Also the draft policy that NHL has, should maybe be applied in football too. That enables the weaker teams to pick the top prospects first. Eg. Pittsburgh Penguins was in a bade state before they drafted Sidney Crosby, which has turned their luck around.

 

So, imo, supporters have generally a right to complain about how the football is developing. But actually MA is trying to rectify some of these faults: He doesn't want to pay extreme sums to players (which forced us and other clubs to increase ticket prices). He wants the club to be able to stand on its own feet. There are plenty of examples of clubs that are not capable of doing that: City, ManU (deficit each year), Chelsea, Villa, Liverpool, West Ham etc. All these clubs are dependent on cash deposits from their owners to conduct daily management. MA wants us to develop a sound talent policy: Those days where Beardsly, Waddle, Shearer etc escaped us are over.

 

In conclusion, MA swims against the tide here. While other clubs still continue to hurl money out the window, he puts Castle in a sound economical position. Why is that wrong? It's this OVERLY and solely negative view of MA I react on: "The fat man is draining the club, he will sell all our star players for a low sum etc." All of us make errors, we're humans. But we also do good things too. And MA has done some good stuff to rectify his faults.  Give the man credit for what is due. He's actually going against Brummie's point about the horrible direction that football generally has taken the last years.

[RupertCommunicator]

Brummie:  I also agree with everything you've said.  What I have said is not about taking your medicine and paying your money blindly, as I am pissed off with the topics you have brought up there.  I have just accepted that we are currently a mid table Prem team who have the potential to become a top 5 Premiership club over a period of years.

 

As Ian W said!

[Guest Antec]

Post of the year.

 

(Although I do agree with steady progress!)

 

We ALL agree with steady progress, it's the only way to go these days without huge financial backing

 

Great post BTW Brummie

[JH]

What I don't really understand - and this is about ALL football fans, not Newcastle fans - is why supporters go so happily into "self flagellation" mode, turning on each other, pointing the finger, "you're a kneejerker", "you're a happy clapper", "you're not the right sort of supporter" - basically, all these things boil down to "you don't agree with me, so there's clearly something wrong with you".

 

Someone made a point further up this thread about what do people expect from fans the way the game is these days, and they're absolutely f***ing bang on the money.

 

It strikes me that now, when agents constantly agitate for moves for their players, when clubs shaft supporters left, right and centre, but expect unquestioned support back, when the needs of Sky and Murdoch's pernicious empire outrank all other concerns, when players spout loyalty one day then, lured by money, walk away with as much concern as you or I would exhibit when choosing Starbucks ahead of Costa (something which we see even from "born and bred" fan players nowadays), when we're asked to pay the highest ticket prices in Europe but to shut up, sit down, and don't cause any nuisance, when we're asked to keep on coming week after week despite our clubs - often big, historic clubs - having absolutely ZERO chance of winning the league, when the concept of "building" something is pointless as as soon as you get a decent player, along will come Man City or some other bunch of classless f***ing arrivistes waving their money to take your player at will, well, when you have all that, it strikes me that there is easily enough to moan about to make complaining about other supporters a bit low rent.

 

Incidentally, what on earth is "impatient" in the context of football, and more so in the context of a club who have won the square root of f*** all for decades now? It sounds to me like one of those new "suits all purposes" insults that gets thrown at football supporters by idiotic columnists (cretins like Rod Liddle) - stop being so impatient, shut up, pay for your season ticket and keep the bandwagon rolling. After all, what right do you have to expect something back in return?

 

 

One thing that does annoy me is the thought that we are the only club that loses its players to 'bigger clubs', that lies to its supporters and charges silly ticket prices when in reality, as Brummie's post shows, we're not.

 

For every Newcastle, there is an Everton or a Villa. We're all stuck at that midtable crossroad IMO.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

It's a relatively new phenomenon for us though isn't it Jonny? Previously we were either paying so much in wages that we could retain our players, or the players we had signed were so bad that bigger clubs weren't looking at them.

 

I agree it's common to all the clubs in our position, it just seems worse for us because it's only just started to happen.

 

Don't think the Carroll deal can be underestimated either, we wouldn't even be talking about player sales if it wasn't for that. We still don't know whether it was an exception or an example of a strategy.

[madras]

It's a relatively new phenomenon for us though isn't it Jonny? Previously we were either paying so much in wages that we could retain our players, or the players we had signed were so bad that bigger clubs weren't looking at them.

 

I agree it's common to all the clubs in our position, it just seems worse for us because it's only just started to happen.

 

Don't think the Carroll deal can be underestimated either, we wouldn't even be talking about player sales if it wasn't for that. We still don't know whether it was an exception or an example of a strategy.

i don't think it's either. it's not too strange that every fan i've spoke to from other clubs has said at that price we had to sell carroll and if similarly ridiculous' bids are made for enrique and tiote then the same thing will happen. it would happen to any club.

[JH]

It's a relatively new phenomenon for us though isn't it Jonny? Previously we were either paying so much in wages that we could retain our players, or the players we had signed were so bad that bigger clubs weren't looking at them.

 

I agree it's common to all the clubs in our position, it just seems worse for us because it's only just started to happen.

 

Don't think the Carroll deal can be underestimated either, we wouldn't even be talking about player sales if it wasn't for that. We still don't know whether it was an exception or an example of a strategy.

 

Well therein lies the issue.

 

Before I start, this doesn't mean that I want the club to sell its best players or whatever. But alot of people on this board (and yes, there is proof in the Enrique thread before someone like Dave comes along and goes "I can't see anyone saying that" or "Evidence please" ) are already taking it as if we have a strategy, when it could still prove to be the exception.

 

We sold one player, and that makes us a selling club. Nobody can cite Given or N'Zogbia or Milner because noone was calling us a selling club before this January window.

 

And yes it is a relatively new phenomenon for us but judging by comments earlier in the season, most had come to accept that we were a 'newly promoted side' and so weren't as big as we used to be - so if a player wants to go to Liverpool or Manchester United, what can we do? Other than throw ridiculous money at them, something most were opposed to when Shepherd used to do it.

 

We have to face facts that we're now in that bank of average PL teams who are struggling to break onto the next level. The situation is no different at other PL clubs. It doesn't make it right, it doesn't mean I approve of it, but it's what is happening. Blackpool nearly sold Adam, Everton would have sold Cahill if the price was ridiculous, the same with Villa and Young etc.

[Punk77]

 

Don't think the Carroll deal can be underestimated either, we wouldn't even be talking about player sales if it wasn't for that. We still don't know whether it was an exception or an example of a strategy.

 

Agreed! This summer will be exciting. I think the sale of Carroll is a combination of exception and strategy. The price was so good that an exception to the rule of not selling our best players had to be made. Carroll's sale has enabled the club to lay a new strategy: We will try  to tie down our best players AND buy some better prospect then we were able to before the sale. If Enrique still leaves, it will be because he decides that he want cl-football, or has been offered a ludicrous salary which Castle could not compete with.  If that happens, I'm sure that Castle (due to carroll's money)has stretched themselves very far to keep him.

 

But, all will come together this summer. If we manage to sign up Tiote, Barton and Enrique I'm very satisfied. I'm not sure that this would have been possible without the sale of Carroll.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Totally agree Jonny.

 

Punk77, I think you're the only person I've ever heard call Newcastle 'Castle'. I kind of like it!

 

My main worry is with Mike Ashley's pigheadedness and arrogance, he might come down on the wrong side of tight decisions about player wages too often. For example, in any world Enrique has earned a pay rise, assuming he's not already on crazy money. If he comes to Ashley and asks for one, will he just be told to fuck off and join Carroll at Liverpool?

 

However mad footballer's wages are, they are normal to them and the individuals need to feel valued and like they're getting their market value.

 

I don't want us to spend crazy money again, but it's a very difficult balance to strike. And fans will obviously tend to come down on the side of paying the player a little bit more if they love him.

[Cronky]

Right, before I become some sort of board antichrist, I want to clear a few things up:

 

1.  I'm not having a go at anyone, everyone is entitled to their opinion and if everyone was in staunch agreement, this board would be very boring indeed!

 

2.  What I have said is a generalisation, I'm not giving exact examples, as no too people will completely agree on all topics.

 

3.  What I said in the OP is aimed only at SOME people.  Clearly there are many people who have long termist views, as there are some who don't.  I was just getting a bit wound up at some of the panic negativity that was coming out in some threads.

 

4.  Nothing is black and white.  People tend to only take views that are either extreme right or extreme left of arc.  Sometimes we need to sit in the middle.  Certainly, I can see the thirst for immediate success, but I just want to temper this with a bit of common sense.

 

5.  Clearly some of this will seem like tired hyperbole/cliché, but only to those who are well informed enough to have trodden this path before.  Do not get a hump on if this applies to you, as clearly, not everyone has been around the block two dozen times.

 

And most importantly - it's only a chat forum FFS!  In real life you may see me down the pub before a match and we'd only be having the same debate over a pint or five, but we'd still be mates afterwards!  I'm not some Geordie hating knobhead, otherwise I wouldn't support the club and go to matches!

 

What can be a bit frustrating is when people ignore the general point you’re making and seize on particular words or sentences to attack. I think that’s what’s happened here.

[Punk77]

Totally agree Jonny.

 

Punk77, I think you're the only person I've ever heard call Newcastle 'Castle'. I kind of like it!

 

 

Really? In this age of abbreviations I though Castle was commonly used in  forums  Saves me some punching when I shorten club names to Castle, Bham etc. Besides,  if you read the Willamson tread, you will find that Dave find my abbreviations irritating..That leaves me with no other choice than to continue using them

[Cronky]

Totally agree Jonny.

 

Punk77, I think you're the only person I've ever heard call Newcastle 'Castle'. I kind of like it!

 

My main worry is with Mike Ashley's pigheadedness and arrogance, he might come down on the wrong side of tight decisions about player wages too often. For example, in any world Enrique has earned a pay rise, assuming he's not already on crazy money. If he comes to Ashley and asks for one, will he just be told to fuck off and join Carroll at Liverpool?

 

However mad footballer's wages are, they are normal to them and the individuals need to feel valued and like they're getting their market value.

 

I don't want us to spend crazy money again, but it's a very difficult balance to strike. And fans will obviously tend to come down on the side of paying the player a little bit more if they love him.

 

It’s an interesting point.

 

A difficulty is that players who come to the end of their contract might seek a rise that’s above the norm, because a potential buying club might be prepared to give them a big rise or a big signing on fee, because they won’t have to pay a transfer fee. It’s a common source of wage inflation IMO.

 

With our situation, if I’m reading it right, we might be expecting players like Barton or Enrique to not just forego a rise, but to take some sort of a cut in order to conform to our new salaries policy. Maybe they get round it with all sorts of performance-related bonuses, or a re-signing on fee, I don’t know.

 

It’s why the financial fair play rules are so necessary, because sugardaddies like Abramovich have artificially inflated the wage market, although he’s not the only one.

 

It can’t be right that, within a team game, some players command huge salaries when their contribution isn’t that much greater than the others. That’s bound to create resentment and competition, so from that point of view I think Ashley is on the right lines. The trouble is, other clubs are taking a more short-term view, and we’re not operating in isolation. It’s a matter of holding our nerve, and Ashley’s approach may well prove to the best one in the longer term.

 

Ultimately, the big problem that needs addressing is the huge gaps in income between the Champions League clubs and the rest of the Premiership, and between the Premiership and the Championship. But that’s another story.

 

Sorry, long post.

 

[Guest Antec]

Another point on short-termism, I don't know one single person who isn't happy with slow and steady progress. They all realise that spending silly money on shite players has hurt badly us in the past and that big transfer fees do not guarantee success

 

They'd like a team to be proud of and some honesty from the people in charge

[Punk77]

A long but good post Cronky!

[brummie]

What I don't really understand - and this is about ALL football fans, not Newcastle fans - is why supporters go so happily into "self flagellation" mode, turning on each other, pointing the finger, "you're a kneejerker", "you're a happy clapper", "you're not the right sort of supporter" - basically, all these things boil down to "you don't agree with me, so there's clearly something wrong with you".

 

Someone made a point further up this thread about what do people expect from fans the way the game is these days, and they're absolutely f***ing bang on the money.

 

It strikes me that now, when agents constantly agitate for moves for their players, when clubs shaft supporters left, right and centre, but expect unquestioned support back, when the needs of Sky and Murdoch's pernicious empire outrank all other concerns, when players spout loyalty one day then, lured by money, walk away with as much concern as you or I would exhibit when choosing Starbucks ahead of Costa (something which we see even from "born and bred" fan players nowadays), when we're asked to pay the highest ticket prices in Europe but to shut up, sit down, and don't cause any nuisance, when we're asked to keep on coming week after week despite our clubs - often big, historic clubs - having absolutely ZERO chance of winning the league, when the concept of "building" something is pointless as as soon as you get a decent player, along will come Man City or some other bunch of classless f***ing arrivistes waving their money to take your player at will, well, when you have all that, it strikes me that there is easily enough to moan about to make complaining about other supporters a bit low rent.

 

Incidentally, what on earth is "impatient" in the context of football, and more so in the context of a club who have won the square root of f*** all for decades now? It sounds to me like one of those new "suits all purposes" insults that gets thrown at football supporters by idiotic columnists (cretins like Rod Liddle) - stop being so impatient, shut up, pay for your season ticket and keep the bandwagon rolling. After all, what right do you have to expect something back in return?

 

 

One thing that does annoy me is the thought that we are the only club that loses its players to 'bigger clubs', that lies to its supporters and charges silly ticket prices when in reality, as Brummie's post shows, we're not.

 

For every Newcastle, there is an Everton or a Villa. We're all stuck at that midtable crossroad IMO.

 

Indeed.

 

Gareth Barry, then James Milner. Probably Ashley Young this summer. You can make a case for those players that we either got the best of their years (Barry), that we got stupid money (Milner, Barry to for a player with a year left), or that to be honest, they weren't that big a loss (Barry and Young too, to be honest), however the point is that the club, at the time, wanted to keep them, but couldn''t.

 

As soon as Milner knew Man City were interested, they were always going to get him, because they were going to pay him stupid money.  I felt for you lot when you lost AC but there is not a club in the country, bar Man City and Chelsea, who would have turned down that money.

 

What is depressing is the thought that, really, that's as good as it gets. We finished sixth three years on the bounce, but still couldnt push on, and still couldn't hold on to Milner. It really does make you wonder what the point is.

 

Incidentally, obviously for every Milner we lose to Man City, or Carroll you lose to Liverpool, there are players clubs like us, you and Everton poach from clubs further down the pecking order as well. The difference is that the point at which the cherry picking really happens now is choking the entire remainder of the premier league.

 

What gets my goat more than anything is the suggestion in the media that, actually, the fans don't have a right to complain or to feel short changed by it all. When we bought Darren Bent, we got slaughtered in the press. What for? Because we're not supposed to spend up to 24 million on a striker. When Liverpool spent 35m on Carroll - let's face it, a very good player, but over a short period of time in the top flight - barely a murmur of "maybe that's too much money", barely a hint of surprise.

 

Why was that? Because, beyond the usual suspects the media favour, the rest of us aren't supposed to do much other than take what we're given, and be grateful for it. We're supposed to be grateful for having had Martin O'Neill as our manager, and the reason he fucked off MUST be something we did because, well .... well, we should have just been grateful to have him.

 

As for short termism, I don't think it is really possible to do anything long term these days - as I said, you get a good selection of players together, they get bought by the usual suspects, you're back at square one. Interesting that someone posted that Lambias quote from a while back, about wanting to be an Aston Villa, ie well run, competitive etc etc but without daft investment. The very idea that we - after 200 million plus investment by Lerner - might be seen as the "sensible" financial option to follow is utterly insane.

[Rob W]

Short termism?

 

We've waited  84 years for a League win

 

56 years for Cup win and

 

42 years to win owt other than the Inter Toto

 

 

 

Was that really 42 years ago......just seems like yesterday

 

for some of us it was............... 

[Benwell Lad]

I'm pretty sure that if it hadn't been for the oligarchy and sheikhdom that entered the game wages at the top level would have contracted in the last couple of years.

 

I know that a salary cap at Newcastle is often mentioned and figures are quoted but has the club ever made an official statement regarding what that figure is ? I know there has been a statement made expressing an intention for the club to be self sufficient but I don't recall seeing a specific maximum salary mentioned ?

I would think quite a few of our players are relatively high earners and even recent signings like Sol Campbell and HBA would not come cheap.

I'd be surprised if even under Ashleyism they wouldn't be prepared to compete if the right player becomes available.

[BottledDog]

I'm pretty sure that if it hadn't been for the oligarchy and sheikhdom that entered the game wages at the top level would have contracted in the last couple of years.

 

I know that a salary cap at Newcastle is often mentioned and figures are quoted but has the club ever made an official statement regarding what that figure is ? I know there has been a statement made expressing an intention for the club to be self sufficient but I don't recall seeing a specific maximum salary mentioned ?

I would think quite a few of our players are relatively high earners and even recent signings like Sol Campbell and HBA would not come cheap.

I'd be surprised if even under Ashleyism they wouldn't be prepared to compete if the right player becomes available.

 

Nope, and I do recall someone, possibly Hughton (or may have just been some journo spouting knowing my memory), saying there was a certain amount of flexibility in the wage packages they were able to offer. More of a guideline rather than a hard and fast rule imho.

[Benwell Lad]

I'm pretty sure that if it hadn't been for the oligarchy and sheikhdom that entered the game wages at the top level would have contracted in the last couple of years.

 

I know that a salary cap at Newcastle is often mentioned and figures are quoted but has the club ever made an official statement regarding what that figure is ? I know there has been a statement made expressing an intention for the club to be self sufficient but I don't recall seeing a specific maximum salary mentioned ?

I would think quite a few of our players are relatively high earners and even recent signings like Sol Campbell and HBA would not come cheap.

I'd be surprised if even under Ashleyism they wouldn't be prepared to compete if the right player becomes available.

 

Nope, and I do recall someone, possibly Hughton (or may have just been some journo spouting knowing my memory), saying there was a certain amount of flexibility in the wage packages they were able to offer. More of a guideline rather than a hard and fast rule imho.

 

That being the case with the Carroll transfer money etc and a club in overall decent financial shape we should be able to compete with almost anyone outside the oligarchy/sheikhdom when it comes to signing/retaining players.

Panic over lads !

[leffe186]

What I don't really understand - and this is about ALL football fans, not Newcastle fans - is why supporters go so happily into "self flagellation" mode, turning on each other, pointing the finger, "you're a kneejerker", "you're a happy clapper", "you're not the right sort of supporter" - basically, all these things boil down to "you don't agree with me, so there's clearly something wrong with you".

 

Someone made a point further up this thread about what do people expect from fans the way the game is these days, and they're absolutely f***ing bang on the money.

 

It strikes me that now, when agents constantly agitate for moves for their players, when clubs shaft supporters left, right and centre, but expect unquestioned support back, when the needs of Sky and Murdoch's pernicious empire outrank all other concerns, when players spout loyalty one day then, lured by money, walk away with as much concern as you or I would exhibit when choosing Starbucks ahead of Costa (something which we see even from "born and bred" fan players nowadays), when we're asked to pay the highest ticket prices in Europe but to shut up, sit down, and don't cause any nuisance, when we're asked to keep on coming week after week despite our clubs - often big, historic clubs - having absolutely ZERO chance of winning the league, when the concept of "building" something is pointless as as soon as you get a decent player, along will come Man City or some other bunch of classless f***ing arrivistes waving their money to take your player at will, well, when you have all that, it strikes me that there is easily enough to moan about to make complaining about other supporters a bit low rent.

 

Incidentally, what on earth is "impatient" in the context of football, and more so in the context of a club who have won the square root of f*** all for decades now? It sounds to me like one of those new "suits all purposes" insults that gets thrown at football supporters by idiotic columnists (cretins like Rod Liddle) - stop being so impatient, shut up, pay for your season ticket and keep the bandwagon rolling. After all, what right do you have to expect something back in return?

 

 

One thing that does annoy me is the thought that we are the only club that loses its players to 'bigger clubs', that lies to its supporters and charges silly ticket prices when in reality, as Brummie's post shows, we're not.

 

For every Newcastle, there is an Everton or a Villa. We're all stuck at that midtable crossroad IMO.

 

Indeed.

 

Gareth Barry, then James Milner. Probably Ashley Young this summer. You can make a case for those players that we either got the best of their years (Barry), that we got stupid money (Milner, Barry to for a player with a year left), or that to be honest, they weren't that big a loss (Barry and Young too, to be honest), however the point is that the club, at the time, wanted to keep them, but couldn''t.

 

As soon as Milner knew Man City were interested, they were always going to get him, because they were going to pay him stupid money.  I felt for you lot when you lost AC but there is not a club in the country, bar Man City and Chelsea, who would have turned down that money.

 

What is depressing is the thought that, really, that's as good as it gets. We finished sixth three years on the bounce, but still couldnt push on, and still couldn't hold on to Milner. It really does make you wonder what the point is.

 

Incidentally, obviously for every Milner we lose to Man City, or Carroll you lose to Liverpool, there are players clubs like us, you and Everton poach from clubs further down the pecking order as well. The difference is that the point at which the cherry picking really happens now is choking the entire remainder of the premier league.

 

What gets my goat more than anything is the suggestion in the media that, actually, the fans don't have a right to complain or to feel short changed by it all. When we bought Darren Bent, we got slaughtered in the press. What for? Because we're not supposed to spend up to 24 million on a striker. When Liverpool spent 35m on Carroll - let's face it, a very good player, but over a short period of time in the top flight - barely a murmur of "maybe that's too much money", barely a hint of surprise.

 

Why was that? Because, beyond the usual suspects the media favour, the rest of us aren't supposed to do much other than take what we're given, and be grateful for it. We're supposed to be grateful for having had Martin O'Neill as our manager, and the reason he f***ed off MUST be something we did because, well .... well, we should have just been grateful to have him.

 

As for short termism, I don't think it is really possible to do anything long term these days - as I said, you get a good selection of players together, they get bought by the usual suspects, you're back at square one. Interesting that someone posted that Lambias quote from a while back, about wanting to be an Aston Villa, ie well run, competitive etc etc but without daft investment. The very idea that we - after 200 million plus investment by Lerner - might be seen as the "sensible" financial option to follow is utterly insane.

 

I still think it's possible: I have to, otherwise I'd cry. We've put together our best squad in years, perfectly placed to break into the CL regularly and then Man City win the lottery. Everything now rests on how the new financial regulations pan out. If they fail to do what they promise to, then we're screwed.

 

We've seen the centrepieces of two teams whisked away from us. Carrick and Berbatov (and Keane), for silly money and silly wages. If Chelsea and City keep on keeping on then the only way we could hope to compete is with a major stadium expansion, and can we afford that?

 

We've managed that push on past 6th through hard work, luck, good management and a wodge of cash. Without changes in Chelsea and City though, we're just going to be a flash in the pan.