KK - "Pardew Won't See A Penny Of It"

[magorific]

Pointless pop at Dave - a clearly lucid, reasonable bloke - there Magpie99, but ho hum.

In short, I'll ask you what proof - other than the word of self-confessed liars

(and that IS a fact) - do you have for the claim that KK was asking for silly money to spend and

that Ashley is trying to run Newcastle like Arsenal.

Sorry, one more (repeated) question: when has Arsene Wenger ever had a player sold against his will?

Facts please, not assumptions.

 

[Punk77]

Keegan and O'Neill have always been fantastic at spending other people's money. Unfortunately in this day and age it's not considered much of an asset unless the returns can justify it. MON spent a fortune with the blessing of an owner who was considered ideal on this board a couple of seasons ago. Where are Villa now after all their extravagant outlay?

 

 

 

 

 

And Magpie99: EPIC post! That's how I see the situation. MA has done his fair share of mistakes, but as you mentioned, he's learning from them. Also it should be mentioned that Fred left him a club with direct course for administration. I don't think MA knew how messy state was before he took over.  If he had, he probably would not have touched the club with an iron rod . The fact that MA is learning for each day is the most important thing. I think some fans are too focused on the past and the errors made instead of looking forwards. There's so much good going on in the club now and that could partly be ascribed to the work of MA. Shouldn't he get credit for that?  This summer could be the most exciting window since the bobby days. While so many other clubs overspend, making them completely owner dependent for years, we seemingly got everything under control. And that's so important when we know that the financial fair play rules will come into effect soon. Those rules could paralyze some of our closest competitors for the European spot, such as Everton and Villa. We could get a head start which they will struggle to recover.

 

 

[cp40]

'2.....A club on a sound financial footing, punching above their weight'

 

 

get the fuck off.

 

show me another club anywhere in the world that matches our turnover and crowd size, that has not won a pot to piss in for 50 years, and i will show you a club that is punching above its weight.

[NG32]

Ashley shouldn't have tried to pander to supporter sentiment by appointing Keegan. Keegan shouldn't have accepted the job when he knew there was going to be a DOF in the picture. Ashley and Wise shouldn't have tried to foist players on Keegan. Keegan shouldn't have walked out on the last day of the transfer window. And the Keegan fan-boys should accept that not every toon supporter is prone to adolescent hero worship.

 

 

Ok Captain Hindsight.

 

 

http://images.memegenerator.net/File/230820/LargeThumbnail.jpg

[NG32]

Keegan and O'Neill have always been fantastic at spending other people's money. Unfortunately in this day and age it's not considered much of an asset unless the returns can justify it. MON spent a fortune with the blessing of an owner who was considered ideal on this board a couple of seasons ago. Where are Villa now after all their extravagant outlay?

 

 

 

CACK.

[Cronky]

For what it's worth:

 

Why did you make the decision to go back there, and why didn't it last very long?

Well it's very easy to tell you why I made the decision to go back there, it's a club I love. I played for it, my father was a Geordie. It's a club that I then had the pleasure to manage once and although people see it as a failure we did quite well, won a lot of games, played a lot of good football. Certainly won a massive fanbase for Newcastle other than the Geordies. So I was just ecstatic when I got a phone call from Mike Ashley to go back but unfortunately - well I don't talk about it much now but I went to court to have the right to talk about it - I was surrounded by people who didn't tell me the truth, who deceived me. You don't have to take my word for it, read the evidence of the court case, I don't want to elaborate on it more than that. I could write a book - I've chosen not to - I could go on TV every day and tell you things that you wouldn't believe that happened there, but what's the point?

 

Newcastle's got to get on with it, Mike Ashley and the people around him have got to live with what they did and I suppose they'll be able to do that. We just move on, but it was disappointing. It's crucial at any football club, you do need as a manager the support of your chairman, owner and your board and you certainly have to have that backing and be truthful with each other if you're going to have any chance. The successful clubs have that and that's probably why unfortunately Newcastle got relegated that season. But they're back in the Premier League now, I'm delighted. Next time I go into football I'll look more closely not at the club but at the people who own it and run it.

 

That statement has several unconvincing moments, but to take one - is it really fair for Keegan to say that he doesn't want to talk about what went on with Ashley and then to go on and say that there were lots of incidents that would really shock us? If he's got something to say, he should say it and give Ashley the chance to defend himself.

[NG32]

For what it's worth:

 

Why did you make the decision to go back there, and why didn't it last very long?

Well it's very easy to tell you why I made the decision to go back there, it's a club I love. I played for it, my father was a Geordie. It's a club that I then had the pleasure to manage once and although people see it as a failure we did quite well, won a lot of games, played a lot of good football. Certainly won a massive fanbase for Newcastle other than the Geordies. So I was just ecstatic when I got a phone call from Mike Ashley to go back but unfortunately - well I don't talk about it much now but I went to court to have the right to talk about it - I was surrounded by people who didn't tell me the truth, who deceived me. You don't have to take my word for it, read the evidence of the court case, I don't want to elaborate on it more than that. I could write a book - I've chosen not to - I could go on TV every day and tell you things that you wouldn't believe that happened there, but what's the point?

 

Newcastle's got to get on with it, Mike Ashley and the people around him have got to live with what they did and I suppose they'll be able to do that. We just move on, but it was disappointing. It's crucial at any football club, you do need as a manager the support of your chairman, owner and your board and you certainly have to have that backing and be truthful with each other if you're going to have any chance. The successful clubs have that and that's probably why unfortunately Newcastle got relegated that season. But they're back in the Premier League now, I'm delighted. Next time I go into football I'll look more closely not at the club but at the people who own it and run it.

 

That statement has several unconvincing moments, but to take one - is it really fair for Keegan to say that he doesn't want to talk about what went on with Ashley and then to go on and say that there were lots of incidents that would really shock us? If he's got something to say, he should say it and give Ashley the chance to defend himself.

 

He probs cant or just maybe has Newcastle best interests at heart by not mentioning the said incidents, especially since the club is back in the prem and doing well.

 

I dont think he'll want to rock the boat.

 

Seems on here, KK cant win.

 

Obviosuly some shit went on and was proven in tribunal but still this is not good enough.

[Guest magpie99]

Majorific............Like I said in the post, look at the global picture and not just what you want to see. You mention Wenger not haviing players sold behind his back. The answer to this is:

 

Arsenal have been the shining light in the PL regarding a well balanced and managed club. There has rarely been the need to sell star players in order to break even. We have had no alternative during the Ashley era due to the inherited massive debt incurred by the previous regime in order for us to just survive. Ashley is attempting to make us self sufficient by attracting youngsters from our own hotbed and world wide to the club in the hope we will nurture some stars ofthe future, much like Wenger does with his influx of youngsters into thne team.

 

The facvt that we have brought in and established such talents as Carroll, Enrique, Gosling, Ben Arfa, Ranger and Tiote and increased their value is clear evidence of this.

 

As for KK not asking for money, didnt he want to sign Schweinsteiger as a replacement for Milner but the club advised they couldnt afford him. Of course, there are the rumours as well, you know, Lampard, Beckham or Henry but these might have been over exaggerated.

 

I am not having a pop at Dave. If he feels offended, I apologise but I still have my own opinions on the matter.

 

 

[Dr Venkman]

For what it's worth:

 

Why did you make the decision to go back there, and why didn't it last very long?

Well it's very easy to tell you why I made the decision to go back there, it's a club I love. I played for it, my father was a Geordie. It's a club that I then had the pleasure to manage once and although people see it as a failure we did quite well, won a lot of games, played a lot of good football. Certainly won a massive fanbase for Newcastle other than the Geordies. So I was just ecstatic when I got a phone call from Mike Ashley to go back but unfortunately - well I don't talk about it much now but I went to court to have the right to talk about it - I was surrounded by people who didn't tell me the truth, who deceived me. You don't have to take my word for it, read the evidence of the court case, I don't want to elaborate on it more than that. I could write a book - I've chosen not to - I could go on TV every day and tell you things that you wouldn't believe that happened there, but what's the point?

 

Newcastle's got to get on with it, Mike Ashley and the people around him have got to live with what they did and I suppose they'll be able to do that. We just move on, but it was disappointing. It's crucial at any football club, you do need as a manager the support of your chairman, owner and your board and you certainly have to have that backing and be truthful with each other if you're going to have any chance. The successful clubs have that and that's probably why unfortunately Newcastle got relegated that season. But they're back in the Premier League now, I'm delighted. Next time I go into football I'll look more closely not at the club but at the people who own it and run it.

 

That statement has several unconvincing moments, but to take one - is it really fair for Keegan to say that he doesn't want to talk about what went on with Ashley and then to go on and say that there were lots of incidents that would really shock us? If he's got something to say, he should say it and give Ashley the chance to defend himself.

 

you mean like he would in court?

[magorific]

Ffs, the Henry, Beckham and Lampard rumours were fed to the press by the club. The same club who'd have you believe they are folowing the Arsenal way. As rumours, they are no more valid than the rumours last month that your forward-thinking club tried to sign Henry on deadline day.

The same forward-thinking ckub who tried to re-sign Charles N'Zogbia on the same deadline day.

Arsenal have had one manager since 1996. The people you believe are following their lead have had six in barely three years.

How is buying Hatem Ben Arfa - hardly an unknown, great talent, serious baggage - any different from

KK buying Ginola? KK

Was KK not entitled to expect to buy a quality replacement for a player he was promised would not be sold?

Instead, he had a total donkey - an unscouted donkey - forced upon him. You talk about KK and money, yet that donkey (Xisco) cost £5.7m. And that's without mentioning Nacho G.

I'm under no illusions about Kevin Keegan. He's no saint. But in this instance, he was treated disgracefully by clueless liars.

 

 

[Wullie]

I'd love to see some evidence of this Arsenal model seeing as some people actually fall for it, and it shouldn't include basic stuff like 'producing players', which is something every club has tried to do since football clubs started. Developing players and selling them on sounds more like the Crewe Alexandra model to me.

[magorific]

I'd love to see some evidence of this Arsenal model seeing as some people actually fall for it, and it shouldn't include basic stuff like 'producing players', which is something every club has tried to do since football clubs started. Developing players and selling them on sounds more like the Crewe Alexandra model to me.

 

Exactly this.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I don't think any Newcastle fan believes we are Arsenal, I don't understand this over-simplistic argument.

 

And I don't think any Newcastle fan enjoys us selling players, in fact Mike Ashley gets slammed for potentially selling players that are still here.

 

We need to move past this deliberate simplification of other peoples' opinions, it's stupid.

 

(And yeah, obviously every club 'tries' to produce players, the question is what do they do and how successful is it?)

[Punk77]

I'd love to see some evidence of this Arsenal model seeing as some people actually fall for it, and it shouldn't include basic stuff like 'producing players', which is something every club has tried to do since football clubs started. Developing players and selling them on sounds more like the Crewe Alexandra model to me.

 

It's very easy too see the difference? Before, the talent development was non existing. Every reinforcement had to be bought.  We didn't produce one single player. Now the club is abound with talent, and we have done some seriously good bargains. Tiote, Gosling and HBA are all proof of the new policy.  And look at the players we developed or are developing: Ranger, Vukic, Ferguson and Carroll. After Blackpool we have the highest concentration of british players in our team. This is exactly what Arsenal has been doing for years:scout Europe, finding cheap players and turning them into stars.

 

And MA has previously stated that he had to deal some players to balance the books. But the huge sum we got for Carroll probably saved us from selling more players than him. Now we're able to keep all our assets, as long as they want to stay.

[cfcmagpies]

I'd love to see some evidence of this Arsenal model seeing as some people actually fall for it, and it shouldn't include basic stuff like 'producing players', which is something every club has tried to do since football clubs started. Developing players and selling them on sounds more like the Crewe Alexandra model to me.

 

It's very easy too see the difference? Before, the talent development was non existing. Every reinforcement had to be bought.  We didn't produce one single player. Now the club is abound with talent, and we have done some seriously good bargains. Tiote, Gosling and HBA are all proof of the new policy.  And look at the players we developed or are developing: Ranger, Vukic, Ferguson and Carroll. After Blackpool we have the highest concentration of british players in our team. This is exactly what Arsenal has been doing for years:scout Europe, finding cheap players and turning them into stars.

 

And MA has previously stated that he had to deal some players to balance the books. But the huge sum we got for Carroll probably saved us from selling more players than him. Now we're able to keep all our assets, as long as they want to stay.

 

Jumping the gun a little with those examples. Gosling has barely kicked a ball in anger, and HBA hasn't done much more. Of the youngsters, I'm sure Carroll was here before MA, and the other three are nothing more than kids with potential- at this stage.

[Guest TheSummerOf69]

Keegan... like a lot of other managers, Martin O'Neill included, he needs to spend highly to succeed.

 

Not that old guff again.

 

Keegan kept up the worst ever NUFC team (the one that nearly took us into the unchartered mackemlands of the 3rd Division) before the very next season winning the first 11 games on the trot to launch our successful promotion and the boom years. And he did it by spending only about £1m, money which should be covered by the full houses he brought to the Toon from day one of his management.

 

The money that John Hall put in to buy Rob Lee, Andy Cole and all the rest came later, when he could see how sound an investment a successful Toon was. Hall went on to take about £100m out of the club. Before all this, and when we desperately needed it, Hall put next to nowt in - it was all Keegan's magic.

 

 

You also mention Martin O'Neill - he started his career very succesfully at Wycombe and Leicester without having cash to splash.

[BlueStar]

Are the 'good' things Ashley's done by accident or design?  We cut back our wage structure because we got catastrophically relegated and a load of players wanted to/had to leave.  We're 'developing' talent because for large portions of Ashley's reign we haven't had anyone else to put on the field.  We're 'developing' Ranger by giving him game time because we sold out best centre forward on deadline day and didn't bring in a replacement.

[magorific]

Keegan... like a lot of other managers, Martin O'Neill included, he needs to spend highly to succeed.

 

Not that old guff again.

 

Keegan brought full houses to the Toon and kept up the worst ever NUFC team (the one that nearly took us into the unchartered mackemlands of the 3rd Division) before the very next season winning the first 11 games on the trot to launch our succesful promotion and the boom years. And he did it by spending only about £1m.

 

The money that John Hall put in to buy Rob Lee, Andy Cole and all the rest came later, when he could see how sound an investment a successful Toon was. Hall went on to take about £100m out of the club. Before all this, and when we desperately needed it, Hall did nowt - it was all Keegan's magic.

 

No, you're wrong. There's no way KK could have bought Cole - a richly talented but raw and unproven youngster - and made him a superstar while eventually making a handsome profit on him. KK doesn't do things like that. No, no way, never.

[Punk77]

I'd love to see some evidence of this Arsenal model seeing as some people actually fall for it, and it shouldn't include basic stuff like 'producing players', which is something every club has tried to do since football clubs started. Developing players and selling them on sounds more like the Crewe Alexandra model to me.

 

It's very easy too see the difference? Before, the talent development was non existing. Every reinforcement had to be bought.  We didn't produce one single player. Now the club is abound with talent, and we have done some seriously good bargains. Tiote, Gosling and HBA are all proof of the new policy.  And look at the players we developed or are developing: Ranger, Vukic, Ferguson and Carroll. After Blackpool we have the highest concentration of british players in our team. This is exactly what Arsenal has been doing for years:scout Europe, finding cheap players and turning them into stars.

 

And MA has previously stated that he had to deal some players to balance the books. But the huge sum we got for Carroll probably saved us from selling more players than him. Now we're able to keep all our assets, as long as they want to stay.

 

Jumping the gun a little with those examples. Gosling has barely kicked a ball in anger, and HBA hasn't done much more. Of the youngsters, I'm sure Carroll was here before MA, and the other three are nothing more than kids with potential- at this stage.

 

Oh come on, just to prove your point, you're actually saying that HBA is not a bargain! Blame De Jong. Second if it wasn't for the focus on talents, it's likely that Carroll never would have gotten a chance, because the club had not the competence to spot his potential.

[ToonTastic]

I'd love to see some evidence of this Arsenal model seeing as some people actually fall for it, and it shouldn't include basic stuff like 'producing players', which is something every club has tried to do since football clubs started. Developing players and selling them on sounds more like the Crewe Alexandra model to me.

 

It's very easy too see the difference? Before, the talent development was non existing. Every reinforcement had to be bought.  We didn't produce one single player. Now the club is abound with talent, and we have done some seriously good bargains. Tiote, Gosling and HBA are all proof of the new policy.  And look at the players we developed or are developing: Ranger, Vukic, Ferguson and Carroll. After Blackpool we have the highest concentration of british players in our team. This is exactly what Arsenal has been doing for years:scout Europe, finding cheap players and turning them into stars.

 

And MA has previously stated that he had to deal some players to balance the books. But the huge sum we got for Carroll probably saved us from selling more players than him. Now we're able to keep all our assets, as long as they want to stay.

 

Jumping the gun a little with those examples. Gosling has barely kicked a ball in anger, and HBA hasn't done much more. Of the youngsters, I'm sure Carroll was here before MA, and the other three are nothing more than kids with potential- at this stage.

 

Oh come on, just to prove your point, you're actually saying that HBA is not a bargain! Blame De Jong. Second if it wasn't for the focus on talents, it's likely that Carroll never would have gotten a chance, because the club had not the competence to spot his potential.

 

Give over, relegation and the removal of so called "top players" from our wage bill got Carroll his chance nothing else.

[Guest TheSummerOf69]

No, you're wrong. There's no way KK could have bought Cole - a richly talented but raw and unproven youngster - and made him a superstar while eventually making a handsome profit on him. KK doesn't do things like that. No, no way, never.

 

Yeah, and he destroyed the youth production line that Ossie Ardiles put in place that gave us Lee Clarke, Steve Watson, Steve Howey etc etc.

 

It's one that would have been the envy of the 3rd Division, which was where we were headed.

 

[Oh, and Clarke and Watson were handed debuts by Jim Smith (known as a buyer of aging players); and Howey was a failed centre forward before KK moved him to defence, iirc. But Ardilles didn't just pick the young'uns who would make it. He picked all of them!]

[Cronky]

For what it's worth:

 

Why did you make the decision to go back there, and why didn't it last very long?

Well it's very easy to tell you why I made the decision to go back there, it's a club I love. I played for it, my father was a Geordie. It's a club that I then had the pleasure to manage once and although people see it as a failure we did quite well, won a lot of games, played a lot of good football. Certainly won a massive fanbase for Newcastle other than the Geordies. So I was just ecstatic when I got a phone call from Mike Ashley to go back but unfortunately - well I don't talk about it much now but I went to court to have the right to talk about it - I was surrounded by people who didn't tell me the truth, who deceived me. You don't have to take my word for it, read the evidence of the court case, I don't want to elaborate on it more than that. I could write a book - I've chosen not to - I could go on TV every day and tell you things that you wouldn't believe that happened there, but what's the point?

 

Newcastle's got to get on with it, Mike Ashley and the people around him have got to live with what they did and I suppose they'll be able to do that. We just move on, but it was disappointing. It's crucial at any football club, you do need as a manager the support of your chairman, owner and your board and you certainly have to have that backing and be truthful with each other if you're going to have any chance. The successful clubs have that and that's probably why unfortunately Newcastle got relegated that season. But they're back in the Premier League now, I'm delighted. Next time I go into football I'll look more closely not at the club but at the people who own it and run it.

 

That statement has several unconvincing moments, but to take one - is it really fair for Keegan to say that he doesn't want to talk about what went on with Ashley and then to go on and say that there were lots of incidents that would really shock us? If he's got something to say, he should say it and give Ashley the chance to defend himself.

 

you mean like he would in court?

 

I don't know why you're introducing the idea of a court. In any walk of life, you don't go around saying in public that a person has done some terrible things but you'd rather not talk about them.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Are the 'good' things Ashley's done by accident or design?  We cut back our wage structure because we got catastrophically relegated and a load of players wanted to/had to leave.  We're 'developing' talent because for large portions of Ashley's reign we haven't had anyone else to put on the field.  We're 'developing' Ranger by giving him game time because we sold out best centre forward on deadline day and didn't bring in a replacement.

 

I'd say the wage structure as at least as much due to the rank financial position the club was in when Ashley bought it.

[ToonTastic]

Are the 'good' things Ashley's done by accident or design?  We cut back our wage structure because we got catastrophically relegated and a load of players wanted to/had to leave.  We're 'developing' talent because for large portions of Ashley's reign we haven't had anyone else to put on the field.  We're 'developing' Ranger by giving him game time because we sold out best centre forward on deadline day and didn't bring in a replacement.

 

I'd say the wage structure as at least as much due to the rank financial position the club was in when Ashley bought it.

 

Which he kindly topped up a bit with some crazy wages for ageing players.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Are the 'good' things Ashley's done by accident or design?  We cut back our wage structure because we got catastrophically relegated and a load of players wanted to/had to leave.  We're 'developing' talent because for large portions of Ashley's reign we haven't had anyone else to put on the field.  We're 'developing' Ranger by giving him game time because we sold out best centre forward on deadline day and didn't bring in a replacement.

 

I'd say the wage structure as at least as much due to the rank financial position the club was in when Ashley bought it.

 

Which he kindly topped up a bit with some crazy wages for ageing players.

 

Agreed, I've never disputed he's made a load of mistakes. He's correcting that particular one now though.