Hanshithispantz Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Simpson, and Ryan Taylor (other than the few games he went mental) were both very good at keeping defensive shape though which is something we excelled in for large parts of that season, because that's what kind of manager Pardew is. You're not going to get the same rigid defensive structure with the players we have now. So although the players we have now are far more talented, as a team they look a lot worse. Wow, quite a claim that! I agree they might need to be a bit more disciplined at times, but I can't agree that a team with Santon/Debuchy can possibly be "a lot worse" than a team with Simpson/Raylor. Both are bang average players at best. They're a lot worse because they're not suited to Pardew's style. We don't have Leon Best to bring on now and then as an outlet which Pardew often relies on, we have a Shola. Tiote turned to complete shite and he lost his destroyer in the centre. He relied massively on Jonas putting a shift in on the left too but his legs have pretty much gone now, Ryan Taylor played almost every game that season either at left back or on the wing which helped. None of this was any good to watch, it was fucking painful in all honesty, but it was compact and it stifled the opposition. You cannot really do that with players who signed up to play football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Simpson, and Ryan Taylor (other than the few games he went mental) were both very good at keeping defensive shape though which is something we excelled in for large parts of that season, because that's what kind of manager Pardew is. You're not going to get the same rigid defensive structure with the players we have now. So although the players we have now are far more talented, as a team they look a lot worse. Wow, quite a claim that! I agree they might need to be a bit more disciplined at times, but I can't agree that a team with Santon/Debuchy can possibly be "a lot worse" than a team with Simpson/Raylor. Both are bang average players at best. So is this - "I don't think our squad is worse than the one that finished fifth. Ba is a big miss but Cisse benefits from his leaving and we also have Remy if he doesn't go down. Our midfield and defence is better now." I haven't seen anything form last season that proves this point. Just because the Ba and Cisse partnership didn't work it doesn't mean that Cisse (or the team) is playing any better now. Yep, it's my opinion that Cisse benefits from Ba leaving. Cisse wasn't playing that great, but he was doing much better than when he was on the right wing! Obviously if you just use last season as an example, then everyone is shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Simpson, and Ryan Taylor (other than the few games he went mental) were both very good at keeping defensive shape though which is something we excelled in for large parts of that season, because that's what kind of manager Pardew is. You're not going to get the same rigid defensive structure with the players we have now. So although the players we have now are far more talented, as a team they look a lot worse. Wow, quite a claim that! I agree they might need to be a bit more disciplined at times, but I can't agree that a team with Santon/Debuchy can possibly be "a lot worse" than a team with Simpson/Raylor. Both are bang average players at best. They're a lot worse because they're not suited to Pardew's style. We don't have Leon Best to bring on now and then as an outlet which Pardew often relies on, we have a Shola. Tiote turned to complete shite and he lost his destroyer in the centre. He relied massively on Jonas putting a shift in on the left too but his legs have pretty much gone now, Ryan Taylor played almost every game that season either at left back or on the wing which helped. None of this was any good to watch, it was fucking painful in all honesty, but it was compact and it stifled the opposition. I agree with most of that, but we were talking about the fullbacks. Which, IMO, we've massively upgraded. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Simpson, and Ryan Taylor (other than the few games he went mental) were both very good at keeping defensive shape though which is something we excelled in for large parts of that season, because that's what kind of manager Pardew is. You're not going to get the same rigid defensive structure with the players we have now. So although the players we have now are far more talented, as a team they look a lot worse. Wow, quite a claim that! I agree they might need to be a bit more disciplined at times, but I can't agree that a team with Santon/Debuchy can possibly be "a lot worse" than a team with Simpson/Raylor. Both are bang average players at best. So is this - "I don't think our squad is worse than the one that finished fifth. Ba is a big miss but Cisse benefits from his leaving and we also have Remy if he doesn't go down. Our midfield and defence is better now." I haven't seen anything form last season that proves this point. Just because the Ba and Cisse partnership didn't work it doesn't mean that Cisse (or the team) is playing any better now. Yep, it's my opinion that Cisse benefits from Ba leaving. Cisse wasn't playing that great, but he was doing much better than when he was on the right wing! Obviously if you just use last season as an example, then everyone is shit. Cisse, when Ba was around, only played minimal amount of minutes out on the wing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Simpson, and Ryan Taylor (other than the few games he went mental) were both very good at keeping defensive shape though which is something we excelled in for large parts of that season, because that's what kind of manager Pardew is. You're not going to get the same rigid defensive structure with the players we have now. So although the players we have now are far more talented, as a team they look a lot worse. Wow, quite a claim that! I agree they might need to be a bit more disciplined at times, but I can't agree that a team with Santon/Debuchy can possibly be "a lot worse" than a team with Simpson/Raylor. Both are bang average players at best. They're a lot worse because they're not suited to Pardew's style. We don't have Leon Best to bring on now and then as an outlet which Pardew often relies on, we have a Shola. Tiote turned to complete shite and he lost his destroyer in the centre. He relied massively on Jonas putting a shift in on the left too but his legs have pretty much gone now, Ryan Taylor played almost every game that season either at left back or on the wing which helped. None of this was any good to watch, it was fucking painful in all honesty, but it was compact and it stifled the opposition. I agree with most of that, but we were talking about the fullbacks. Which, IMO, we've massively upgraded. The fullbacks go hand in hand with the rest of the team though. Having 2 attacking fullbacks in a system which relies on keeping a rigid shape could be counter-productive, look at Stoke who can go as far as playing 4 centre backs. The same with playing the likes of Williamson and Simpson amongst a group of players who like to keep the ball on the ground. Simpson and Ryan Taylor suited the 4-4-2 we were picking back then* far more than they would in the squad we're hoping to pick now. *before the return of Ben Arfa and the purchase of Cisse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 How can we compete for 6th or 7th with the current options in the forward positions and this manager? We finished 5th with similar. That team had far more goals and options than what we have now. It's not similar. No it doesn't its just more suited to Pardew was. The team is astronomically stronger than it was then. We lost Ba but gained Remy, Gouffran, Sissoko, Debuchy, Yanga-Mbiwa , Haidara and Anita. Not to mention Ben Arfa and Cisse hardly played that year. How anyone can argue any differently is beyond me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 The individuals to choose from are stronger now but the 'team' was working better then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 The individuals to choose from are stronger now but the 'team' was working better then. Is true but that comes back to the manager again. This group of players is highly unsuited to him and the team that finished 5th were prototype Pardew players to perfection. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 The individuals to choose from are stronger now but the 'team' was working better then. Is true but that comes back to the manager again. This group of players is highly unsuited to him and the team that finished 5th were prototype Pardew players to perfection. That's what happens when there is no proper recruitment plan in place to match what is needed by the manager/club to take things forward or if there was (who knows there may be?) then Pardew has failed wildly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Simpson, and Ryan Taylor (other than the few games he went mental) were both very good at keeping defensive shape though which is something we excelled in for large parts of that season, because that's what kind of manager Pardew is. You're not going to get the same rigid defensive structure with the players we have now. So although the players we have now are far more talented, as a team they look a lot worse. Wow, quite a claim that! I agree they might need to be a bit more disciplined at times, but I can't agree that a team with Santon/Debuchy can possibly be "a lot worse" than a team with Simpson/Raylor. Both are bang average players at best. So is this - "I don't think our squad is worse than the one that finished fifth. Ba is a big miss but Cisse benefits from his leaving and we also have Remy if he doesn't go down. Our midfield and defence is better now." I haven't seen anything form last season that proves this point. Just because the Ba and Cisse partnership didn't work it doesn't mean that Cisse (or the team) is playing any better now. Yep, it's my opinion that Cisse benefits from Ba leaving. Cisse wasn't playing that great, but he was doing much better than when he was on the right wing! Obviously if you just use last season as an example, then everyone is s***. Cisse, when Ba was around, only played minimal amount of minutes out on the wing. Something like 3 games Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 From what i've seen so far, we aren't any stronger anywhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Bent having medical at Fulham. Bent-Berbatov-Taraabt-Ruiz in one team .... immense off the ball work rate If they play well then I don't think Jol will give 2 shits about off the ball work rate and nor should he. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trumpet Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Bent having medical at Fulham. Bent-Berbatov-Taraabt-Ruiz in one team .... immense off the ball work rate If they play well then I don't think Jol will give 2 s***s about off the ball work rate and nor should he. That's true, but it will make it easier for opposition team to find space when they have the ball vs. Fulham. Reckon they could struggle this year. They are shit away from home and Craven Cottage isn't exactly the scariest and most hostile place to go to. A bad start and Jol could go IMO. I remember our game vs Fulham at Anfield last season, which was by far the easiest game of the season and zero fight was shown by their team due to their lax attitude and total lack of pressing of opposition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 One of Fulham's biggest problems last year was when Ruiz was injured they had nobody else with a little guile except Berba. Ruiz was inconsistent too. Now they've loosened the burden/reliance on Berbatov/Ruiz. There's another player there for goals and another for creativity. They now have serious options. All out attack and play all of them, conservatively away only play 2.. or anything in the middle. The biggest thing in a relegation scrap is quality in the final third, and they have it in abundance now. They might flirt with relegation but they really have too much fire power not to get 25-35 points at home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 They are an old team so I don't think they can afford to press heavily away from home. Have they added any legs in midfield? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Bent having medical at Fulham. Bent-Berbatov-Taraabt-Ruiz in one team .... immense off the ball work rate If they play well then I don't think Jol will give 2 s***s about off the ball work rate and nor should he. That's true, but it will make it easier for opposition team to find space when they have the ball vs. Fulham. Reckon they could struggle this year. They are shit away from home and Craven Cottage isn't exactly the scariest and most hostile place to go to. A bad start and Jol could go IMO. I remember our game vs Fulham at Anfield last season, which was by far the easiest game of the season and zero fight was shown by their team due to their lax attitude and total lack of pressing of opposition. Fulham tend to be associated with being pretty shite travellers mind. Dunno, it's the classic "oh, it's only Fulham" when you see you're at home to them on the fixture list. I know that sounds disrespectful but I think every team in the league would think at home to them they could win. I thought they'd struggle a lot this year but my mind is changing. That's some excellent attacking options and what defensive fragility should be more than compensated for. If they don't have an awful start, mind. Because I agree, if they do start shit, something tells me Jol will be off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 They are an old team so I don't think they can afford to press heavily away from home. Have they added any legs in midfield? Dekka Boateng. Got Frei and that Swedish young chap with the tough to remember name who can play out wide too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiemag Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 They are an old team so I don't think they can afford to press heavily away from home. Have they added any legs in midfield? Dekka Boateng. Got Frei and that Swedish young chap with the tough to remember name who can play out wide too. Kaciniciilic? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 A team with Bent & Berba up top for 25-30 games won't get relegated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Dejagah looks a good player from what I've seen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiemag Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 A team with Bent & Berba up top for 25-30 games won't get relegated. It's a very good strike force. They've got a top 10 side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Dejagah looks a good player from what I've seen. Good moves apparently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hithere Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Bent having medical at Fulham. Bent-Berbatov-Taraabt-Ruiz in one team .... immense off the ball work rate When he played for us Bent worked his arse off apart from near the end when he decided he wanted away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Luiz Gustavo close to signing with Wolfsburg now. Arsenal would be stupid not to make an extremely late move and hijack that deal. Although I do understand Wenger not wanting to splash £18m of the little cash he uses on someone like Luiz Gustavo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Luiz Gustavo close to signing with Wolfsburg now. Arsenal would be stupid not to make an extremely late move and hijack that deal. Although I do understand Wenger not wanting to splash £18m of the little cash he uses on someone like Luiz Gustavo. They were talking about him on the Guardian podcast this week. Apparently he's class but a bit mental? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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