Twitter nonsense

[Chicken Dancer]

As much as if I've enjoyed reading this debate, I have, after much thought, came to the conclusion that I couldn't give a flying fuck how much as spent as long as there is steady progress on the pitch. Sell the lot for 100 mil and replace them with a team of Championship rejcts and come 10th for me. We can beat the strategy to death, call for Ashleys/Pardews head but that fact that we're being careful with the clubs finances pleases me. We've tried the other way, it didn't work and we payed the price in relegation. At least we have the security to know our club will be here in 10 years when other clubs probably fear liquidation every day. 

[Dave]

As usual, is the answer not somewhere in between what people are arguing here? I know that's a relatively boring conclusion, but I can see valid points on both sides.

 

For example, the £35m for Carroll should - in my opinion - be getting reinvested as transfer fees, signing on fees, wages and bonuses - but I have absolutely no complaints about the players we've brought in so far, despite their value - and I include Ben Arfa, Gosling and Tiote in that too. The six players are all very exciting to me, although I appreciate only one of them has proven his quality in our shirt for a sustained period so far.

 

Also, if the money isn't fully reinvested it's not like it will be going into Ashley's pockets at the expense of the club, but it may save him from dipping into his own funds again to keep the balance sheet in the black for another season. I'm sure we were getting close to "breaking even" anyway, though, without having to sell players to do so - but I'm not as in tune with our finances as some are, so I may be wrong on that.

 

No, no. If you were expecting the £35m to be spent that must mean you're not happy with the players we've got in. You need to rethink your post.

[Wullie]

As much as if I've enjoyed reading this debate, I have, after much thought, came to the conclusion that I couldn't give a flying fuck how much as spent as long as there is steady progress on the pitch. Sell the lot for 100 mil and replace them with a team of Championship rejcts and come 10th for me. We can beat the strategy to death, call for Ashleys/Pardews head but that fact that we're being careful with the clubs finances pleases me. We've tried the other way, it didn't work and we payed the price in relegation. At least we have the security to know our club will be here in 10 years when other clubs probably fear liquidation every day. 

 

Freddie Shepherd was ahead of his time when he only sanctioned Bowyer's free transfer in the summer of 2003 and blew our forthcoming Champions League campaign out of the water, a decision with such disastrous consequences that we are still suffering from it to this day.

 

"Keeping the powder dry" is the new "winning stuff".

 

In all seriousness, the day when my ambition for NUFC is simply to still exist, I'm packing it in. How fucking depressing.

[Dave]

Jack's been drafting a post no doubt slagging me off for about 15mins. I'm off to bed, this won't be pleasant.

[Chicken Dancer]

As much as if I've enjoyed reading this debate, I have, after much thought, came to the conclusion that I couldn't give a flying f*** how much as spent as long as there is steady progress on the pitch. Sell the lot for 100 mil and replace them with a team of Championship rejcts and come 10th for me. We can beat the strategy to death, call for Ashleys/Pardews head but that fact that we're being careful with the clubs finances pleases me. We've tried the other way, it didn't work and we payed the price in relegation. At least we have the security to know our club will be here in 10 years when other clubs probably fear liquidation every day. 

 

Freddie Shepherd was ahead of his time when he only sanctioned Bowyer's free transfer in the summer of 2003 and blew our forthcoming Champions League campaign out of the water, a decision with such disastrous consequences that we are still suffering from it to this day.

 

"Keeping the powder dry" is the new "winning stuff".

 

In all seriousness, the day when my ambition for NUFC is simply to still exist, I'm packing it in. How f***ing depressing.

 

Honestly I see both points of view and I agree with both, I love nothing more than a big money signing. Really want Charlie back. I don't even know what my point is to be honest. Trying to please everyones take on it I suppose.

[Jack Flash]

Jack's been drafting a post no doubt slagging me off for about 15mins. I'm off to bed, this won't be pleasant.

 

Forgot this window was open

 

Also forgot what I was going to say, so *generic twitter rumour*

[Cronky]

As much as if I've enjoyed reading this debate, I have, after much thought, came to the conclusion that I couldn't give a flying fuck how much as spent as long as there is steady progress on the pitch. Sell the lot for 100 mil and replace them with a team of Championship rejcts and come 10th for me. We can beat the strategy to death, call for Ashleys/Pardews head but that fact that we're being careful with the clubs finances pleases me. We've tried the other way, it didn't work and we payed the price in relegation. At least we have the security to know our club will be here in 10 years when other clubs probably fear liquidation every day. 

 

Freddie Shepherd was ahead of his time when he only sanctioned Bowyer's free transfer in the summer of 2003 and blew our forthcoming Champions League campaign out of the water, a decision with such disastrous consequences that we are still suffering from it to this day.

 

"Keeping the powder dry" is the new "winning stuff".

 

In all seriousness, the day when my ambition for NUFC is simply to still exist, I'm packing it in. How fucking depressing.

 

You're isolating one particular decision, and missing the bigger picture. We could of course, have spent £10m and still missed out on the Champions League and finished 5th.

 

A bigger problem around then was the failure to replace Shearer at the correct time. And we failed to do that because Shepherd was worried about the fans reaction. He also wanted to keep Shearer on board as the next manager.

 

Further down the line, we blew a lot of money on some poor transfer decisions (Owen, Luque) where Shepherd appeared to be having far too much say on judgements that should have been left to football professionals. Chairman and Manager weren't working together.

 

The problem wasn't that Shepherd was reluctant to take risks financially. The club was in debt up to its ears. It was that he thought too much like a fan, and not enough as a businessman. He ended up taking short-term decisions on players which didn't get us further forward, and there was no long-term strategy.

 

Ashley should not put himself under pressure to spend all the £35m this transfer window just to please the fans. He has to stay detached from all that, and stick to his strategy.

[Guest Wally_McFool]

Neil Taylor deal done and to be announced soon according to the ever reliable Mr CWarr07

[Fenham Mag]

Neil Taylor deal done and to be announced soon according to the ever reliable Mr CWarr07

 

Oh well. Should get Andrew Taylor in from Boro instead.

[adam1]

Neil Taylor deal done and to be announced soon according to the ever reliable Mr CWarr07

 

So that means the deal isnt done and there isnt going to be an announcement any time soon basically.

[Guest taps01]

Neil Taylor deal done and to be announced soon according to the ever reliable Mr CWarr07

 

Im assuming this Cwaar07 is just a kid?

[madras]

If only we'd spent £24m on the players we've signed so far, instead of £4.3m that we have spent.

 

Yeah that would be really clever. Paying for players available for free is ace.

 

What a stupid thing to say.

you know fine well he means that some would have been happier if we'd spent money instead of getting frees and cheapies so to speak.

 

As far as I'm concerned we'be signed 5 very good players by all accounts for £7.8m, yet people still fail to see the subjective nature of football transfer fees. I remember saying how I thought the £35m would be another noose for the club to hang itself with, looks like I may be right.

 

Five?

 

If I'm defending the transfer record in recent times I have ti include others transfers, including Ben arfa and tiote. (My bad maths is off, £12.8m). Fact is we don't seem to be signing utter s***, which for me would be an indication of no ambitions like wigan but genuine quality players who were sought by others. Quite how you can argue past that I'm not sure.

 

Would that be Wigan whose best player we sold to them and now apparently want back?

 

Our transfers in recent times have been just as much a mixed bag as they always have IMO.

 

Btw I got slaughtered in January for suggesting the Ben Arfa fee would be coming out of the summer transfer budget. Might be wrong but I can't remember madras sticking up for me then, which he should have based on his current viewpoint that it all goes in together. Money out then, less money out now.

quite possibly the case but thats the way of things, people are more likely to speak up against things they disagree with as opposed to saying "i agree" after everything. basically my whole point has been that clubs don't ringfence transfer spending like that and that too many knackers think the transfer fee is all thats involved.

[Guest Antec]

  LukeEdwardsTele  Luke Edwards

#nufc fans will be interested to see how Larsson does @ #safc given he turned down a move to SJP in Jan. Extra spice for derby day on Aug 20

 

[NG32]

  LukeEdwardsTele  Luke Edwards

#nufc fans will be interested to see how Larsson does @ #safc given he turned down a move to SJP in Jan. Extra spice for derby day on Aug 20

 

 

YAWN.

 

Not arsed in the slightest.

[Dokko]

  LukeEdwardsTele  Luke Edwards

#nufc fans will be interested to see how Larsson does @ #safc given he turned down a move to SJP in Jan. Extra spice for derby day on Aug 20

 

 

Edwards showing his lack of knowledge since brum pulled out of the deal not him.

[Guest Antec]

 LukeEdwardsTele  Luke Edwards

#nufc fans will be interested to see how Larsson does @ #safc given he turned down a move to SJP in Jan. Extra spice for derby day on Aug 20

 

 

Edwards showing his lack of knowledge since brum pulled out of the deal not him.

 

Should be ashamed of himself but I doubt it

 

Update:  LukeEdwardsTele  Luke Edwards

#nufc fans not happy at suggestion Larsson turned them down so ducking for cover. Birmingham pulled plug, but Larsson also rejected terms

 

[NG32]

YAWN.

[Fenham Mag]

  LukeEdwardsTele  Luke Edwards

#nufc fans will be interested to see how Larsson does @ #safc given he turned down a move to SJP in Jan. Extra spice for derby day on Aug 20

 

 

Edwards showing his lack of knowledge since brum pulled out of the deal not him.

 

Should be ashamed of himself but I doubt it

 

Update:  LukeEdwardsTele  Luke Edwards

#nufc fans not happy at suggestion Larsson turned them down so ducking for cover. Birmingham pulled plug, but Larsson also rejected terms

 

 

Prick.

[Dokko]

Birmingham wouldn't need to pull the plug if he rejected terms. 

 

Dear me, this man gets paid for this shite.

 

Btw, glad were not paying him £50kpw+ that he is down there, criminal considering their silly wage/turnover ratio.

 

 

[Rebellious]

the more i read these threads the more it strikes me that for all people hate chelsea and citeh for they way they have achieved their current status, it's exactly what they themselves want whilst knowing it is no good for football.

 

Not the first time you've come out with this. Repeating the same rubbish doesn't make it become the truth.

maybe not for you but it's what many want. tell me dave, should we live within our means or get money from a benefactor ?

 

Generally the former is preferable to me wherever possible, including when we make £35m clear profit on a player that cost us nothing to bring to the club. Your question implies you believe we shouldn't spend a bean until the £150m Ashley has invested in his own business is paid back.

 

How is it clear profit ? There is 20% VAT to pay off that. Thats 7mill from the 35mill everyone keeps going on about. I can`t beleive how so many people think buying and selling players is like being at a car boot.

[Jack Flash]

the more i read these threads the more it strikes me that for all people hate chelsea and citeh for they way they have achieved their current status, it's exactly what they themselves want whilst knowing it is no good for football.

 

Not the first time you've come out with this. Repeating the same rubbish doesn't make it become the truth.

maybe not for you but it's what many want. tell me dave, should we live within our means or get money from a benefactor ?

 

Generally the former is preferable to me wherever possible, including when we make £35m clear profit on a player that cost us nothing to bring to the club. Your question implies you believe we shouldn't spend a bean until the £150m Ashley has invested in his own business is paid back.

 

How is it clear profit ? There is 20% VAT to pay off that. Thats 7mill from the 35mill everyone keeps going on about. I can`t beleive how so many people think buying and selling players is like being at a car boot.

 

Or playing computer games.

[Dokko]

When you buy goods irl who pays the tax? the buyer. Not saying its the same for football, but it's 50-50 that it could be

[madras]

When you buy goods irl who pays the tax? the buyer. Not saying its the same for football, but it's 50-50 that it could be

what is capital gains tax then ?

[Colos Short and Curlies]

When you buy goods irl who pays the tax? the buyer. Not saying its the same for football, but it's 50-50 that it could be

what is capital gains tax then ?

 

Has this really becoming a discussion on tax in football?

 

Player trading does not trigger any capital gain, it is a revenue transaction. The selling club would pay corporation tax on any profit on a sale (based on the players accounting/ammortised value). A loss could also be made, reducing the tax liability.

 

Not sure on whether player sales are outside of VAT scope or not, but if not then the ultimate purchaser would pay the VAT. Clubs will be VAT registered so would claim back any VAT paid so it is only a cashflow implication, ultimately any VAT flowing from football tansactions is picked up by the fans on ticket sales etc.

[Rebellious]

When you buy goods irl who pays the tax? the buyer. Not saying its the same for football, but it's 50-50 that it could be

what is capital gains tax then ?

 

Has this really becoming a discussion on tax in football?

 

Player trading does not trigger any capital gain, it is a revenue transaction. The selling club would pay corporation tax on any profit on a sale (based on the players accounting/ammortised value). A loss could also be made, reducing the tax liability.

 

Not sure on whether player sales are outside of VAT scope or not, but if not then the ultimate purchaser would pay the VAT. Clubs will be VAT registered so would claim back any VAT paid so it is only a cashflow implication, ultimately any VAT flowing from football tansactions is picked up by the fans on ticket sales etc.

 

VAT is charged on UK sales ie Carroll to Liverpool. Its different with sales and purchases outside the Uk. So where you could claim the VAT you paid on the profit/sale of Carroll against purchases of other players they have to come from the UK. Otherwise you can`t claim it against.