Shak Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Wasn't entirely aimed at you Mole, there have been plenty of similar posts from people who seem to think Carroll isn't even in the same league as Ba, which is nonsense IMO. Carroll at his best was a player that teams (not just Liverpool btw, Spurs also bid over 20m) were willing to pay tremendous amounts of money for. He's decent technically and is one of the most physically dominant centre forwards I've ever seen play football. Having an outlet like that up top is nothing to be sneezed at. Chelsea won a lot of trophies with a gameplan that involved plenty of long balls towards Drogba, when you have a player that wins it that often why wouldn't you? If we had all three of them at the club my money would be on Carroll and Cisse emerging as the preferred partnership tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Archie Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Ba doesnt really offer anything Cisse doesnt, Carroll does. For all the stick Carroll gets, Daniel Levy sanctioned a 25 million pound ( or thereabouts) offer. Clearly the Mike Ashley of London saw something in him. Comparisons to Drogba is taking it a bit too far, but with Andy firing on all cylinders it really doesnt matter if you stick 2 or even 3 defenders on him in the box. He will get to that ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Wasn't entirely aimed at you Mole, there have been plenty of similar posts from people who seem to think Carroll isn't even in the same league as Ba, which is nonsense IMO. Carroll at his best was a player that teams (not just Liverpool btw, Spurs also bid over 20m) were willing to pay tremendous amounts of money for. He's decent technically and is one of the most physically dominant centre forwards I've ever seen play football. Having an outlet like that up top is nothing to be sneezed at. Chelsea won a lot of trophies with a gameplan that involved plenty of long balls towards Drogba, when you have a player that wins it that often why wouldn't you? If we had all three of them at the club my money would be on Carroll and Cisse emerging as the preferred partnership tbh. Yeah it's fine, just the whole my posts words getting twisted to the opposite end of what i'm saying so i have to explain myself 5 times over is a bit annoying. For it's worth i agree with what you say, my point was Ba is a much better overall footballer while Carroll is better at holding the ball up and better in the air. I have no problem with Carroll's ability, he clearly has the ability if used right. I have said before that Carroll's technique isn't an issue its fine for someone his size and i don't think hoof ball would reign supreme if we signed him. My issue for Carroll's signing is and always been financial and tactical, not for ability reasons. Lastly there's a lot of people who say people have forgot how good Carroll was before he left for Liverpool, but on that same token i feel people have forgot how good Ba was before Cisse joined. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Daniel Levy also sanctioned £15 million for David Bentley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Archie Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 The point is that with the arrival of Cisse Ba no longer has his old position, he has become more of a Rooney-esque hold up player. In that role Im not as big a fan of him. That being said, should Cisse become injured Ba will be a perfect backup - I just dont see the two of them complimenting eachother that well while on the pitch. Rather see Marveaux and Ben Arfa out wide tbh... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Daniel Levy also sanctioned £15 million for David Bentley. What the hell happened there? I know he got a bad injury last season, but Spurs had already shipped him out on loan by then. That was one rapid decline. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 The sheer variety of the goals we've seen from Ba makes him the better striker. Him and Cisse can score in the blink of an eye and that's near impossible to defend against. Putting Carroll up front could make us too predictable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Assumed Bentley just got carried away with the London lifestyle? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 One season wonder. Didn't help that Bentley was an enormous bell end who fancied himself as the next Beckham. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 The point is that with the arrival of Cisse Ba no longer has his old position, he has become more of a Rooney-esque hold up player. In that role Im not as big a fan of him. That being said, should Cisse become injured Ba will be a perfect backup - I just dont see the two of them complimenting eachother that well while on the pitch. Rather see Marveaux and Ben Arfa out wide tbh... As talented as Marveaux is we can't count on him at the moment due to his injury problems. Ba had a handful of poor games but generally played well out wide and was very unlucky in front of goal a number of times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Archie Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 The sheer variety of the goals we've seen from Ba makes him the better striker. Him and Cisse can score in the blink of an eye and that's near impossible to defend against. Putting Carroll up front could make us too predictable. Variety dried up after Cisse arrived though, because Ba no longer find himself in those positions. Also, predictability means little if you cant do anything about it. Tell a centreback there is a cross coming and ask him to clear it on his head. Oh and btw you have to fight Andy Carroll for that one. Kevin Nolan was of the opinion there isnt a player in the Prem better than him in the air. Nice accolade even from a mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Archie Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 The point is that with the arrival of Cisse Ba no longer has his old position, he has become more of a Rooney-esque hold up player. In that role Im not as big a fan of him. That being said, should Cisse become injured Ba will be a perfect backup - I just dont see the two of them complimenting eachother that well while on the pitch. Rather see Marveaux and Ben Arfa out wide tbh... As talented as Marveaux is we can't count on him at the moment due to his injury problems. Ba had a handful of poor games but generally played well out wide and was very unlucky in front of goal a number of times. I agree re: Marveaux, it was just an example. Ba is still a decent player out wide but lets be honest, it wasnt just a handful of games. It was month after month without goals, poor games and playing in a position where he looks breathless. Ba is a striker, a finisher. He doesnt have the legs to play in a wide position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 The point is that with the arrival of Cisse Ba no longer has his old position, he has become more of a Rooney-esque hold up player. In that role Im not as big a fan of him. That being said, should Cisse become injured Ba will be a perfect backup - I just dont see the two of them complimenting eachother that well while on the pitch. Rather see Marveaux and Ben Arfa out wide tbh... As talented as Marveaux is we can't count on him at the moment due to his injury problems. Ba had a handful of poor games but generally played well out wide and was very unlucky in front of goal a number of times. Agree with that, the problem though seems to be that Ba doesn't want to play out wide, Pardew has pretty much said as much. That's a concern for me like. Last night Ba played almost in the hole at times, wonder if that's the plan? Cabaye Tiote Ben Arfa. Ba. Marveaux Cisse With Jonas able to play out left or in CM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I still think Pards sees Jonas as a starter (I agree). Marveaux will likely have to bide his time before he starts in the legue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I still think Pards sees Jonas as a starter (I agree). Marveaux will likely have to bide his time before he starts in the legue. I think it's more likely Marv will be fighting with Ben Arfa for a start rather than Jonas, still not convinced Pardew has fully committed with Ben Arfa yet. Can see him replaced most games and missing a fair few as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Really wish we had the defender to play 3 at the back in order to accommodative all of our attacking players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 3 at the back? This is not 1995. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 The point is that with the arrival of Cisse Ba no longer has his old position, he has become more of a Rooney-esque hold up player. In that role Im not as big a fan of him. That being said, should Cisse become injured Ba will be a perfect backup - I just dont see the two of them complimenting eachother that well while on the pitch. Rather see Marveaux and Ben Arfa out wide tbh... As talented as Marveaux is we can't count on him at the moment due to his injury problems. Ba had a handful of poor games but generally played well out wide and was very unlucky in front of goal a number of times. Agree with that, the problem though seems to be that Ba doesn't want to play out wide, Pardew has pretty much said as much. That's a concern for me like. Last night Ba played almost in the hole at times, wonder if that's the plan? Cabaye Tiote Ben Arfa. Ba. Marveaux Cisse With Jonas able to play out left or in CM. Looks so like the way City line up, not just in system but personnel too. 2 wide players that come inside, strikers that take turns in dropping deep, fullbacks provide the width etc etc. We could actually use 4-4-2 and keep possession well just because of the personnel in the team in this scenario, although we would rely on keeping Marveaux fit which is unlikely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 3 at the back? This is not 1995. Many City played it vs Gooners in their friendly in China but they have Kompany Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 3 at the back? This is not 1995. Many City played it vs Gooners in their friendly in China but they have Kompany But we have Captain Colo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spiria Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I still think Pards sees Jonas as a starter (I agree). Marveaux will likely have to bide his time before he starts in the legue. I think it's more likely Marv will be fighting with Ben Arfa for a start rather than Jonas, still not convinced Pardew has fully committed with Ben Arfa yet. Can see him replaced most games and missing a fair few as well. I think that too. Jonas will be a starter and Marveaux and Ben Arfa will fight for the other spot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Archie Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I still think Pards sees Jonas as a starter (I agree). Marveaux will likely have to bide his time before he starts in the legue. I think it's more likely Marv will be fighting with Ben Arfa for a start rather than Jonas, still not convinced Pardew has fully committed with Ben Arfa yet. Can see him replaced most games and missing a fair few as well. I dont think Ben arfa will ever be benched again. Pardew probably realises now what he has to offer. In terms of going forward as a team a better fullback behind Jonas diminishing the need for graft and someone more dangerous offensively is the way to go imo. More often than not the best you get out of Jonas is a freekick, which is not bad I guess but ever since ben arfa has arrived you do wonder what you miss out on when you see him on the other flank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I still think Pards sees Jonas as a starter (I agree). Marveaux will likely have to bide his time before he starts in the legue. I think it's more likely Marv will be fighting with Ben Arfa for a start rather than Jonas, still not convinced Pardew has fully committed with Ben Arfa yet. Can see him replaced most games and missing a fair few as well. Jonas on the wing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I still think Pards sees Jonas as a starter (I agree). Marveaux will likely have to bide his time before he starts in the legue. I think it's more likely Marv will be fighting with Ben Arfa for a start rather than Jonas, still not convinced Pardew has fully committed with Ben Arfa yet. Can see him replaced most games and missing a fair few as well. I think that too. Jonas will be a starter and Marveaux and Ben Arfa will fight for the other spot. Should depend on opposition IMO. Home games against the weaker sides there's no good reason to start Jonas, Marveaux looks like he'd give you a lot more in the final third. Tougher fixtures you start Jonas though. Ben Arfa should always be one of the first names on the team sheet, regardless of opposition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 ----------------Krul ------Tayls----Colo-----Doug Debu--------------------------Sant ---------Cab----------Tiote ----------------HBA --------Cisse-----------BA Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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