Demba Ba (now retired)

[Mick]

You failed to mention how you'd react as a fan to the hypothetical scenario I presented you with. Nor have you said what you'd do in Pardew's position should our worst fears about Ba's self-preserving stipulations be a reality - which they are in all likelyhood.

 

 

As a fan I'm convinced that Ba would be happy playing left of centre as long as he was getting goals and hogging the limelight.  He loves being the star player and loves getting goals and I don't have a problem with that because most forwards are the same in that respect.

 

Goals bring him confidence and I don’t think for one minute that it would bother him where he was getting them from, as long as he was getting them, something which didn't happen last season after he was moved.

 

As for what I would do in Pardew’s position, I wouldn’t let a player dictate to me where he did or didn’t play, if that is what’s happening.  I’ve managed people for many years and don’t let people tell me what they are or aren’t going to do because if one person can do it then they all can.

 

If you give one person preferential treatment is usually pisses off others and affects the performance of others.  Is Cisse pissed off because he’s been moved away from a position which he made a success of last season?  My guess is that he probably is and it’s preventing him from performing to the best of his ability. 

 

Keeping one player happy looks to be causing another player to underperform, the other player is just as good at doing his job as Ba is but he doesn’t moan about it.  So in that case keeping Ba happy is being cancelled out by pissing off Cisse.

 

[Zero]

I am not being sarcastic, fyi.  Some people like me accepted the cuurent environment under Ashley and gave Pardew the benefit of the doubt for handling the situation hand-tied. Some people like you refuse to accept because traditionally what you said is right the manager should take responsibility for those decisions. The point is nowadays the manager job is becoming ridiculously hard to do, and nearly all managers failed to keep up the good work (if there is) initially and being sacked 2-3 years later. I can't think of any managers that could guarantee a better result under Ashley given the restrictions, which makes the job even harder to work.

[Mick]

 

 

Which Pardew did last season, by the way.

 

I agree, we're not talking about last season though.  I know we did well last season in finishing 5th and that can never be taken away from Pardew but it's not doing anything for us this season.  Nobody can live forever because of what they've done in the past and while that might not be fair, it's the way it is.

 

We simply can't look back and give people in a competitive sport too long, the costs are too high.

 

I really do hope that he can turn things around because it will be better for all of us but I'm not sure that he can.

[Mick]

i sincerely suggest u to support another team, Mick. I can't see any manager can work out well enough for you under Ashley, and I can't see Ashley selling the club in the short term. Probably what you should do is to restart the Ashley out campaign and start riot outside the stadium. Thata probably helps to get what u want,more likely then hoping Ashley to get the Right man.

 

 

I can't suggest to you what I would like to, so we'll leave it at that.

[Ronaldo]

You failed to mention how you'd react as a fan to the hypothetical scenario I presented you with. Nor have you said what you'd do in Pardew's position should our worst fears about Ba's self-preserving stipulations be a reality - which they are in all likelyhood.

 

 

As a fan I'm convinced that Ba would be happy playing left of centre as long as he was getting goals and hogging the limelight.  He loves being the star player and loves getting goals and I don't have a problem with that because most forwards are the same in that respect.

 

Goals bring him confidence and I don’t think for one minute that it would bother him where he was getting them from, as long as he was getting them, something which didn't happen last season after he was moved.

 

As for what I would do in Pardew’s position, I wouldn’t let a player dictate to me where he did or didn’t play, if that is what’s happening.  I’ve managed people for many years and don’t let people tell me what they are or aren’t going to do because if one person can do it then they all can.

 

If you give one person preferential treatment is usually pisses off others and affects the performance of others.  Is Cisse p*ssed off because he’s been moved away from a position which he made a success of last season?  My guess is that he probably is and it’s preventing him from performing to the best of his ability. 

 

Keeping one player happy looks to be causing another player to underperform, the other player is just as good at doing his job as Ba is but he doesn’t moan about it.  So in that case keeping Ba happy is being cancelled out by pissing off Cisse.

 

 

Once again failing to explicitly say what you'd actually do with the team in Pardew's situation if Ba had made such threats. I'm out.

[Mick]

 

 

Once again failing to explicitly say what you'd actually do with the team in Pardew's situation if Ba had made such threats. I'm out.

 

I thought that I'd made is obvious, I'd play him on the left of a front 3 not that I’d want our front 3 to be too rigid in where they play.  I certainly wouldn’t have him playing in a front 2 and trying to hit balls to him from the back which has been the story of our season so far.

 

If I was going to play a front 2 I’d have made sure that we had wingers capable of getting past defenders and putting balls into the box and giving them something to feed off.

[Hhtoon]

I'm not sure about this whole Ba throwing a strop about playing left of a 4-3-3.

Don't get me wrong, it is possible/likely and maybe during the summer he said that if he wasn't given chances in the middle he would re-evaluate his position. But surely Pardew, after such a s*** run, could have put his arm round him and said "Dembs, look how s*** we are. Could we just have a few games trying the 4-3-3 from the end of last season? It's not your fault, it's the other players and injuries and I would really appreciate it. Wouldn't you rather be winning games?"

 

Players must have a desire to win or else they wouldn't make it so I fail to believe that Ba wouldn't agree to that. If he did refuse then get rid. More worryingly is that Pards isn't asking.

[The College Dropout]

Cisse has played a fair bit in the middle this year. s***.

 

Yes he has, as part of a 4-4-2, with a right footer on the left wing and a left footer on the right wing so they can't cross properly to him and the rest of the team just hoofing the ball up front. Baffled as to what you think that proves.

 

He needs to play in the middle of a 4-3-3, or in a 4-4-2 with the wingers on the correct wings. Sadly we lack the personnel to do the latter, and the manager lacks the balls to do the former.

 

Honestly, have you ever heard of a striker that can't play in a 4-4-2? Seriously?

 

It's the same formation Ba has scored 10 goals in. Ba could do with some crosses too.

 

Yes the service has been poor for Cisse (and Ba) but he HAS had chances. I just want people to admit Cisse has legitimately been poor and some of the blame lays with the player himself.

 

He has the same amount of goals as Hatem & Cabaye. It's not good enough.

 

Being offside all the time is nobody's fault but his own. The fact he's probably been offside more than any other player shows he's been in goal scoring positions and messed it up.

[SLK]

Cisse has played a fair bit in the middle this year. s***.

 

Yes he has, as part of a 4-4-2, with a right footer on the left wing and a left footer on the right wing so they can't cross properly to him and the rest of the team just hoofing the ball up front. Baffled as to what you think that proves.

 

He needs to play in the middle of a 4-3-3, or in a 4-4-2 with the wingers on the correct wings. Sadly we lack the personnel to do the latter, and the manager lacks the balls to do the former.

 

Honestly, have you ever heard of a striker that can't play in a 4-4-2? Seriously?

 

It's the same formation Ba has scored 10 goals in. Ba could do with some crosses too.

 

Yes the service has been poor for Cisse (and Ba) but he HAS had chances. I just want people to admit Cisse has legitimately been poor and some of the blame lays with the player himself.

 

He has the same amount of goals as Hatem & Cabaye. It's not good enough.

 

Being offside all the time is nobody's fault but his own. The fact he's probably been offside more than any other player shows he's been in goal scoring positions and messed it up.

Not always his fault for being off side. It can also be caused by not anticipating the striker's run quickly and releasing the ball too late where the strike is now in an offside position. This is exactly what happened to Cisse at Stoke when he made a great run but Tiote or whoever he was took seconds longer than they should have before they released the ball which was too late and obviously very frustrating for Cisse.

[Dave]

There are other formations than 4-4-2 and 4-3-3 though. One of our strikers doesn't have to be on the wing to win games, despite what we all read constantly on here.

 

Can't believe we're in a situation where having TWO 20 goal a season strikers is a burden ffs. Absolutely insane that this is considered a valid excuse to defend the manager. I'd love to know what an attack minded manager would do with them.

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

There are other formations than 4-4-2 and 4-3-3 though. One of our strikers doesn't have to be on the wing to win games, despite what we all read constantly on here.

 

Can't believe we're in a situation where having TWO 20 goal a season strikers is a burden ffs. Absolutely insane that this is considered a valid excuse to defend the manager. I'd love to know what an attack minded manager would do with them.

 

 

Very true, but getting the best out of them both is a problem nonetheless. In a 4-4-2 they both seem to occupy exactly the same position, in a 4-3-3 Cisse is useless if wide.

 

Having them is a massive benefit to us, but it's pointless to deny that getting the best out of them is a bit of a dilemma.

[Dave]

The manager's been working with them both for nearly a year, why do they still occupy the same space in his preferred formation?

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

The manager's been working with them both for nearly a year, why do they still occupy the same space in his preferred formation?

 

 

Good question, I don't know. I doubt he's telling them to go for the same ball like.

[AlanSkÃrare]

There are other formations than 4-4-2 and 4-3-3 though. One of our strikers doesn't have to be on the wing to win games, despite what we all read constantly on here.

 

Can't believe we're in a situation where having TWO 20 goal a season strikers is a burden ffs. Absolutely insane that this is considered a valid excuse to defend the manager. I'd love to know what an attack minded manager would do with them.

 

 

He'd have a plan when buying the second one. He'd then stick to that plan. Not have the team suffer to accomodate one individual. What Pardew did when he moved Demba to the left was benefitial for the team. We're all clinging on to the thought of how we played when he was out there. We haven't played as well with him being in the middle, no matter how good he's been. And he's been fantastic in spells.

 

I genuinely can't believe we reverted from the system used in March/April. I'm all for playing more direct in certain games. But the signing of Anita and the way Cabaye, Cissé and Ben Arfa were performing in that period pointed so much towards the plan being to stick with three midfielders and three fowards.

 

I'd love us to settle for that system. I'd love for us to choose between Ba and Cissé. I think they both offer us so much when deployed correctly. I'd love for us to use Anita as the dynamic link in midfield, for the old Tioté to hammer people by his side, for Cabaye to construct our attacks. For Coloccini to have a CB worthy of partnering him.

 

Frustration is setting in more than any real worry. We have the foundations of a brilliant side here. Full of confidence coming from last season. Had we bolstered things with 2-3 more players and kept focusing on our strengths instead of convulsivley trying to please individuals and stick to an approach that worked because of Coloccini/Krul's individual brilliance last season.

 

[Wullie]

Very confident that if Keegan had Ba and Cisse at his disposal, they'd both get 20 goals no bother.

[Parky]

The manager's been working with them both for nearly a year, why do they still occupy the same space in his preferred formation?

 

 

It's hilarious how they both run to the center of the box. Lemmings.

 

I'd imagine in training at a PL football club one might be instructed to come to the near post or come short/drift to the edge of the box. Not on your nelly! Straight to the middle.

[NG32]

Very confident that if Keegan had Ba and Cisse at his disposal, they'd both get 20 goals no bother.

 

And Ben Arfa would be tearing the league a new arse AND Marveaux would be starting most games AND Cabaye would be transformed.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Very confident that if Keegan had Ba and Cisse at his disposal, they'd both get 20 goals no bother.

 

And Ben Arfa would be tearing the league a new arse AND Marveaux would be starting most games AND Cabaye would be transformed.

 

And the deficit would be history by now, and the eurozone would be completely sorted.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

The manager's been working with them both for nearly a year, why do they still occupy the same space in his preferred formation?

 

 

It's hilarious how they both run to the center of the box. Lemmings.

 

I'd imagine in training at a PL football club one might be instructed to come to the near post or come short/drift to the edge of the box. Not on your nelly! Straight to the middle.

 

Shouldn't they already know this?

[The College Dropout]

Cisse has played a fair bit in the middle this year. s***.

 

Yes he has, as part of a 4-4-2, with a right footer on the left wing and a left footer on the right wing so they can't cross properly to him and the rest of the team just hoofing the ball up front. Baffled as to what you think that proves.

 

He needs to play in the middle of a 4-3-3, or in a 4-4-2 with the wingers on the correct wings. Sadly we lack the personnel to do the latter, and the manager lacks the balls to do the former.

 

Honestly, have you ever heard of a striker that can't play in a 4-4-2? Seriously?

 

It's the same formation Ba has scored 10 goals in. Ba could do with some crosses too.

 

Yes the service has been poor for Cisse (and Ba) but he HAS had chances. I just want people to admit Cisse has legitimately been poor and some of the blame lays with the player himself.

 

He has the same amount of goals as Hatem & Cabaye. It's not good enough.

 

Being offside all the time is nobody's fault but his own. The fact he's probably been offside more than any other player shows he's been in goal scoring positions and messed it up.

Not always his fault for being off side. It can also be caused by not anticipating the striker's run quickly and releasing the ball too late where the strike is now in an offside position. This is exactly what happened to Cisse at Stoke when he made a great run but Tiote or whoever he was took seconds longer than they should have before they released the ball which was too late and obviously very frustrating for Cisse.

 

 

being offside is largely the strikers fault. He has a history of consistently being offside as have the likes of Pippo Inzaghi, it's not the other players fault.

 

As a striker you are taught to keep yourself onside and wait for the pass. You can't control when the other player releases the ball but you can control your position. This is football fundamentals. Yes, sometimes the players should look for him earlier I agree but moreso he often kills the momentum of moves by clearly being a yard or

 

This is my problem with this board. Some players constantly have excuses made for them. Especially Colo & Cisse who, had they done their jobs properly would've got us some points yesterday.

[Gallowgate Toon]

I think they've been linking up a little better of late but I think that's been aided by having someone occupying an attacking midfielder's space. Anita, Marveaux and HBA have all had periods of the game playing just behind them, in recent matches.

[hakka]

The manager's been working with them both for nearly a year, why do they still occupy the same space in his preferred formation?

 

 

It's hilarious how they both run to the center of the box. Lemmings.

 

I'd imagine in training at a PL football club one might be instructed to come to the near post or come short/drift to the edge of the box. Not on your nelly! Straight to the middle.

 

I can't see how it can't be too hard not to simply watch what the other is doing and make sure your not standing on top of each other. One goes short, one goes long etc.

 

The fact Pardew hasn't sorted it out is a farce.

[Parky]

Very confident that if Keegan had Ba and Cisse at his disposal, they'd both get 20 goals no bother.

 

And Ben Arfa would be tearing the league a new arse AND Marveaux would be starting most games AND Cabaye would be transformed.

 

Keegler would do a bit of five a side, talk positive to a couple of younguns and get Asprilla in to work with the strikers. He would get a couple of CD's who love coming forward with the ball and in the evenings they'd all settle down to fish and chips and a good movie.

[Parky]

The manager's been working with them both for nearly a year, why do they still occupy the same space in his preferred formation?

 

 

It's hilarious how they both run to the center of the box. Lemmings.

 

I'd imagine in training at a PL football club one might be instructed to come to the near post or come short/drift to the edge of the box. Not on your nelly! Straight to the middle.

 

Shouldn't they already know this?

 

[Guest icemanblue]

The manager's been working with them both for nearly a year, why do they still occupy the same space in his preferred formation?

 

 

It's hilarious how they both run to the center of the box. Lemmings.

 

I'd imagine in training at a PL football club one might be instructed to come to the near post or come short/drift to the edge of the box. Not on your nelly! Straight to the middle.

 

I can't see how it can't be too hard not to simply watch what the other is doing and make sure your not standing on top of each other. One goes short, one goes long etc.

 

The fact Pardew hasn't sorted it out is a farce.

 

How can this be solely attributed to the manager? Should the players themselves not know they need to do that? Or do they simply do it because the manager, supposedly, hasn't said otherwise?