Demba Ba (now retired)

[Jack Flash]

It doesn't matter how many goals he's scored or not if we keep drawing/loosing. We need to play him where it's best for the team to keep shape and get results, even if it means sacrificing his goals for that reason. Generally the team looked better and played better with BA on the left. Of course that means Cisse would need to score more, but playing him on the wing is a waste of his talent. At least BA has some experience of playing as a wing forward for both us and in germany.

 

Like we're losing because Ba isn't being played on the wing ffs. Ba is making lemonade from lemons and it's keeping us up at present.

[The College Dropout]

Of course we haven't seen anything from Cisse

 

He's a finisher who relies on service but instead we hoof to him expecting to him be Drogba 2.0 or play him on the wing

 

As a said before players can only perform as much as the system and style of play will allow them to.

 

Case in point: Messi best player in the world under Barca's system.... goes to World Cup under Maradona's awful tactics and looks average by comparison.

 

Your comparing the best team in the world to a team coached by Diego Maradona. Apples and Oranges mate.

 

He's more or less the EXACT same type of player Ba is. Ba's not Drogba either but he's managed to BE A GOALSCORER this season. Ba's a finisher and he's finished chances, Cisse hasn't. Ba hasn't had great service either but he's scored goals. He's scored from the scraps we've given him and he'll score as long he's played centrally in any system atm. I can't say the same for Cisse.

 

I'll repeat. Cisse was scoring freely in a 4-4-2 last season. I can think of 3 goals off the top of my head. His confidence is gone and that will only return once he starts putting a few away.

[taxfree]

Get this cunt out on the wing.

[The College Dropout]

People have this notion that Pardew plays a 4-4-2 for Ba. No, one of the reasons he plays a 4-4-2 is that he wants both his goalscorers in goalscoring positions at all times.

 

Pardew is wrong for that because it's not working. If one of the strikers should be sacrificed it should be Cisse. And by sacrificed I mean the bench. Ba looks knackered by 60 minutes anyway so Cisse would have his opportunities. If Maybe he's scoring, then we can talk about moving Ba wide.

[Ronaldo]

Get this c*** out on the wing.

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

People have this notion that Pardew plays a 4-4-2 for Ba. No, one of the reasons he plays a 4-4-2 is that he wants both his goalscorers in goalscoring positions at all times.

 

Pardew is wrong for that because it's not working. If one of the strikers should be sacrificed it should be Cisse. And by sacrificed I mean the bench. Ba looks knackered by 60 minutes anyway so Cisse would have his opportunities. If Maybe he's scoring, then we can talk about moving Ba wide.

 

The problem is that if we're playing 4-4-2 we don't have any other striking options. And if we play 4-3-3 then only Ba can function out wide, so it answers itself again.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Of course we haven't seen anything from Cisse

 

He's a finisher who relies on service but instead we hoof to him expecting to him be Drogba 2.0 or play him on the wing

 

As a said before players can only perform as much as the system and style of play will allow them to.

 

Case in point: Messi best player in the world under Barca's system.... goes to World Cup under Maradona's awful tactics and looks average by comparison.

 

Your comparing the best team in the world to a team coached by Diego Maradona. Apples and Oranges mate.

 

He's more or less the EXACT same type of player Ba is. Ba's not Drogba either but he's managed to BE A GOALSCORER this season. Ba's a finisher and he's finished chances, Cisse hasn't. Ba hasn't had great service either but he's scored goals. He's scored from the scraps we've given him and he'll score as long he's played centrally in any system atm. I can't say the same for Cisse.

 

I'll repeat. Cisse was scoring freely in a 4-4-2 last season. I can think of 3 goals off the top of my head. His confidence is gone and that will only return once he starts putting a few away.

 

Ba is more suited to long ball and 4-4-2 than Cisse is and it's not even close.....

 

Cisse never scored freely in 4-4-2 last season either....

 

Cisse has had no service at all this season......

 

Also you talk about his confidence.... that's hardly going to improve being shafted out till the wing, williamson flinging the ball to his head expecting him to outmuscle giant CB's and being subbed off constantly....

[Wullie]

TCD, you've answered your own question by saying that he was scoring in a 4-4-2 against Villa and Chelsea... aye, with twenty and thirty yard volleys. He clearly wasn't getting the insane amount of chances we created for him in the 4-3-3, nor was he generally getting them in the other games we played 4-4-2 in.

 

Quite clear to me which is the formation that benefits the team most, rather than one player. Our wide players simply aren't good enough as wide forwards right now to enable us to play Ba on his own.

[High Five o]

Dont talk about Cisse in the first half season with any relevance to formations guys.

He scored from everywhere, anytime, 100% of the time.

It was shit crazy. no one could expect it to continue.

 

(I did (hoped)  )

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mole_Toonfan]

Dont talk about Cisse in the first half season with any relevance to formations guys.

He scored from everywhere, anytime, 100% of the time.

It was s*** crazy. no one could expect it to continue.

 

(I did (hoped)  )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not really most of the goals came in 4-3-3 ( the normal goals anyway )

[madras]

TCD, you've answered your own question by saying that he was scoring in a 4-4-2 against Villa and Chelsea... aye, with twenty and thirty yard volleys. He clearly wasn't getting the insane amount of chances we created for him in the 4-3-3, nor was he generally getting them in the other games we played 4-4-2 in.

 

Quite clear to me which is the formation that benefits the team most, rather than one player. Our wide players simply aren't good enough as wide forwards right now to enable us to play Ba on his own.

tbf he scored from around the pen spot in both games.

[madras]

It doesn't matter how many goals he's scored or not if we keep drawing/loosing. We need to play him where it's best for the team to keep shape and get results, even if it means sacrificing his goals for that reason. Generally the team looked better and played better with BA on the left. Of course that means Cisse would need to score more, but playing him on the wing is a waste of his talent. At least BA has some experience of playing as a wing forward for both us and in germany.

 

the problem is Cisse HAS been playing up front. Not by himself but he's been up front and has not been scoring. He was scoring in a 4-4-2 last season. Ba should stay in the middle and someone else should go wide.

 

Cisse's general play won't improve, neither will his finishing if we play him central of a 3. If you play a 4-3-3 and the middle striker is not scoring, most likely you'll have poor results. We can't carry that with Cisse.

why do we have to put one on the wing ? it sounds like netball or american football with designated positions. is there any reason why we can't play with ba, cisse and ben arfa up front and allowed to roam and play off and with each other ? does van persie stay central all game ? did henri ? did cabaye win a double playing rightish in a middle 3 ? do we get the best from ben arfa sticking him out wide in a middle 4 ?

 

why can't we have movement and awareness ?

[Mole_Toonfan]

It doesn't matter how many goals he's scored or not if we keep drawing/loosing. We need to play him where it's best for the team to keep shape and get results, even if it means sacrificing his goals for that reason. Generally the team looked better and played better with BA on the left. Of course that means Cisse would need to score more, but playing him on the wing is a waste of his talent. At least BA has some experience of playing as a wing forward for both us and in germany.

 

the problem is Cisse HAS been playing up front. Not by himself but he's been up front and has not been scoring. He was scoring in a 4-4-2 last season. Ba should stay in the middle and someone else should go wide.

 

Cisse's general play won't improve, neither will his finishing if we play him central of a 3. If you play a 4-3-3 and the middle striker is not scoring, most likely you'll have poor results. We can't carry that with Cisse.

why can't we have movement and awareness ?

 

Because Pardew is manager.

[Jack Flash]

It doesn't matter how many goals he's scored or not if we keep drawing/loosing. We need to play him where it's best for the team to keep shape and get results, even if it means sacrificing his goals for that reason. Generally the team looked better and played better with BA on the left. Of course that means Cisse would need to score more, but playing him on the wing is a waste of his talent. At least BA has some experience of playing as a wing forward for both us and in germany.

 

the problem is Cisse HAS been playing up front. Not by himself but he's been up front and has not been scoring. He was scoring in a 4-4-2 last season. Ba should stay in the middle and someone else should go wide.

 

Cisse's general play won't improve, neither will his finishing if we play him central of a 3. If you play a 4-3-3 and the middle striker is not scoring, most likely you'll have poor results. We can't carry that with Cisse.

why do we have to put one on the wing ? it sounds like netball or american football with designated positions. is there any reason why we can't play with ba, cisse and ben arfa up front and allowed to roam and play off and with each other ? does van persie stay central all game ? did henri ? did cabaye win a double playing rightish in a middle 3 ? do we get the best from ben arfa sticking him out wide in a middle 4 ?

 

why can't we have movement and awareness ?

 

It's become a cliché to think putting Ba on the wing will immediately improve results and performances. It won't because it's not that simple.

[Wullie]

TCD, you've answered your own question by saying that he was scoring in a 4-4-2 against Villa and Chelsea... aye, with twenty and thirty yard volleys. He clearly wasn't getting the insane amount of chances we created for him in the 4-3-3, nor was he generally getting them in the other games we played 4-4-2 in.

 

Quite clear to me which is the formation that benefits the team most, rather than one player. Our wide players simply aren't good enough as wide forwards right now to enable us to play Ba on his own.

tbf he scored from around the pen spot in both games.

 

He scored two bang on the edge of the area, not from around the penalty spot.

[Guest sicko2ndbest]

Ba dosnt really react to either of Cisses goals. I think he is genuinely jealous that his 'mate' is getting all the attention

 

I genuinely think, regardless of how well he is playing, that he is p*ssed off about playing on the left

 

I hope i am wrong, but if he starts being all sulky and thinking about individual glory he will go right down in my estimations.

Honestly think people make things up just to stir s*** at times.

 

 

Ba was one of the first to congratulate Cisse.

 

That being said, i really hope Ba gets a goal soon, it will do him a very good.

 

Hope im wrong, but watch the highlights

 

I hope im reading too much into it

 

Watch this space

 

BTW, if Pardew reverts back to 4-4-2 because of this he wants shooting!

 

Without trying to come across as I told you so(which I know some of you will jump on) I called this 9 months ago and Pardew has given in

 

I think Pardew is scared stiff to move Ba for fear of him activating his clause because he is unhappy. Ba maybe scoring but he is detracting from the team as a whole.

 

As long as we get a suitable replacement ie someone who can play wide or thought the middle (Remy) I would be too disappointed to see him fuck off

[Chris_R]

I think its obvious that Pardew is scared of Ba upping and leaving. Problem is, who's going to stay if we continue playing 4-4-2 and getting no results and playing utterly shite? Even if we scrape 17th doing that and Ba stays, I assure you that Ben Arfa, Cabaye, Tiote, Coloccini and Cisse won't exactly be chuffed to bits to stay here another year.

 

I'd rather keep the majority happy, which we'll only do by winning games. And we simply do not have the personnel to win games consistently and play well under a 4-4-2. Also, there's no way in hell Ben Arfa is a right-winger in a 4-4-2, he's half the player he was last season playing wide right in a 4-3-3.

 

Therefore we MUST go 4-3-3. That means Cisse plays centrally, and Ba plays on the left. If he leaves, he leaves. Shit happens, replace him and move on.

[Mole_Toonfan]

For 4-3-3 to work we need to be playing Marveaux in Cabaye's position and Ben Arfa needs to get back fit.....

 

So it wouldn't work at the moment anyway but long term i agree i don't think Cisse would continue not scoring any if we went back to the same system and playing style as last year.

 

Cisse's suffering is due to playing style and system IMO which attributes to a lack of service, of course it's not as easy as change the system because the playing style and mentality needs to be sorted out as well and players need to be moving off the ball and passing.

 

Knick a win against Wigan and after that start playing 4-2-3-1 with Anita-Tiote; Ben Arfa-Marveaux-Ba; Cisse until January and hopefully we get some reinforcements and some players come back and save the season from a total disaster.

 

Won't happen but we can hope.

[madras]

TCD, you've answered your own question by saying that he was scoring in a 4-4-2 against Villa and Chelsea... aye, with twenty and thirty yard volleys. He clearly wasn't getting the insane amount of chances we created for him in the 4-3-3, nor was he generally getting them in the other games we played 4-4-2 in.

 

Quite clear to me which is the formation that benefits the team most, rather than one player. Our wide players simply aren't good enough as wide forwards right now to enable us to play Ba on his own.

tbf he scored from around the pen spot in both games.

 

He scored two bang on the edge of the area, not from around the penalty spot.

both from inside the box and both after having time to control the ball and not so much as a push by way of a challenge. looked more spectacular but not as good or difficuilt as his goals v norwich and stoke which were from a bit closer but first touch under challenges.

 

anyway it's getting away from the point that we don't have to play 4-4-2 or 4-3-3, quite often you can look at man utd and arsenal and you can't pigeon hole them that way. we have the attacking (throughout the team not just 'forwards) to be able to do that.

[Ikon]

For 4-3-3 to work we need to be playing Marveaux in Cabaye's position and Ben Arfa needs to get back fit.....

 

So it wouldn't work at the moment anyway but long term i agree i don't think Cisse would continue not scoring any if we went back to the same system and playing style as last year.

 

Cisse's suffering is due to playing style and system IMO which attributes to a lack of service, of course it's not as easy as change the system because the playing style and mentality needs to be sorted out as well and players need to be moving off the ball and passing.

 

Knick a win against Wigan and after that start playing 4-2-3-1 with Anita-Tiote; Ben Arfa-Marveaux-Ba; Cisse until January and hopefully we get some reinforcements and some players come back and save the season from a total disaster.

 

Won't happen but we can hope.

 

That's the 4-2-3-1 i would like to see now as well (when HBA is fit) until january at least.

[Lotus]

I think our problem is don't have anyone who moves up into or drops deeper into the 'number 10' position when we're attacking. No one who's got the ball in between the CBs the midfield with their head up looking to play one of our forwards in. Whether it's Cabaye moving forward and either receiving the ball there and carrying it there or HBA drifting in or Ba dropping deep and looking to play Cisse in. It's that position that creates panic and indecision in the oppostion and once you've got them guessing then you can try an occasional direct approach or a long diagonal  or down the flanks and actually put a cross in but at the moment we're so one dimensional and what's more, we're pretty badf at it. It's like we've opted to rinse and repeat the one attacking tactic we're worst at.

[Cronky]

I think our problem is don't have anyone who moves up into or drops deeper into the 'number 10' position when we're attacking. No one who's got the ball in between the CBs the midfield with their head up looking to play one of our forwards in. Whether it's Cabaye moving forward and either receiving the ball there and carrying it there or HBA drifting in or Ba dropping deep and looking to play Cisse in. It's that position that creates panic and indecision in the oppostion and once you've got them guessing then you can try an occasional direct approach or a long diagonal  or down the flanks and actually put a cross in but at the moment we're so one dimensional and what's more, we're pretty badf at it. It's like we've opted to rinse and repeat the one attacking tactic we're worst at.

 

Yeah, we don't see enough of that pass into the feet of a player who's in between the opposition midfield and back four. Everything goes via the wings or direct to the strikers.

 

The Ba - Cisse combination, in whatever form, was never going to help matters. However, I can understand that there was pressure on Pardew to give it every chance. What puzzles me is that the strikers that we seemed to be going for in the summer - Carroll and De Jong - wouldn't particularly help either.

[Lotus]

I think our problem is don't have anyone who moves up into or drops deeper into the 'number 10' position when we're attacking. No one who's got the ball in between the CBs the midfield with their head up looking to play one of our forwards in. Whether it's Cabaye moving forward and either receiving the ball there and carrying it there or HBA drifting in or Ba dropping deep and looking to play Cisse in. It's that position that creates panic and indecision in the oppostion and once you've got them guessing then you can try an occasional direct approach or a long diagonal  or down the flanks and actually put a cross in but at the moment we're so one dimensional and what's more, we're pretty badf at it. It's like we've opted to rinse and repeat the one attacking tactic we're worst at.

 

Yeah, we don't see enough of that pass into the feet of a player who's in between the opposition midfield and back four. Everything goes via the wings or direct to the strikers.

 

The Ba - Cisse combination, in whatever form, was never going to help matters. However, I can understand that there was pressure on Pardew to give it every chance. What puzzles me is that the strikers that we seemed to be going for in the summer - Carroll and De Jong - wouldn't particularly help either.

 

There appears to be a distinct lack of strategy as to what he wants to do as it happens.

[Dr Venkman]

Ba is only behind Suarez and Van Persie in the top goal scorer chart. That's a big enough reason for him staying where he is.

 

We're absolutely fucking shit, the TEAM is rubbish, that's a reason for him to play as part of an interchanging front 3.

[Jack Flash]

Ba is only behind Suarez and Van Persie in the top goal scorer chart. That's a big enough reason for him staying where he is.

 

We're absolutely f***ing s***, the TEAM is rubbish, that's a reason for him to play as part of an interchanging front 3.

 

There's part of me wanting to see this 4-3-3 thing happen just so it gets put to bed and we don't have to read page after page of megaposts about it. It's unlikely to happen so why not just support/appreciate the player who's keeping us afloat?