Dr Venkman Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Ba is only behind Suarez and Van Persie in the top goal scorer chart. That's a big enough reason for him staying where he is. We're absolutely f***ing s***, the TEAM is rubbish, that's a reason for him to play as part of an interchanging front 3. There's part of me wanting to see this 4-3-3 thing happen just so it gets put to bed and we don't have to read page after page of megaposts about it. It's unlikely to happen so why not just support/appreciate the player who's keeping us afloat? I support and appreciate him every week. What do you mean you want to see it happen? Didn't you see it last season? Have you seen it this season when we've played it? Our players suit it more by virtue of it being more about passing and moving and less about getting it wide and passing it long. Ba scoring goals isn't a good enough reason not to change a team that's under-performing this badly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Because he's taking the team down in the process? I don't think we can play 4-3-3 at the moment due to injuries anyway but earlier in the season we should have done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Ba is only behind Suarez and Van Persie in the top goal scorer chart. That's a big enough reason for him staying where he is. We're absolutely f***ing s***, the TEAM is rubbish, that's a reason for him to play as part of an interchanging front 3. There's part of me wanting to see this 4-3-3 thing happen just so it gets put to bed and we don't have to read page after page of megaposts about it. It's unlikely to happen so why not just support/appreciate the player who's keeping us afloat? I support and appreciate him every week. What do you mean you want to see it happen? Didn't you see it last season? Have you seen it this season when we've played it? Our players suit it more by virtue of it being more about passing and moving and less about getting it wide and passing it long. Ba scoring goals isn't a good enough reason not to change a team that's under-performing this badly. The players we had last season during that run are not the players we have now. They're massively unmotivated and have no confidence which is the exact opposite of that time last year. Just switching to for-free-free isn't magically going to turn them into what we had (briefly) last year. This might confuse the Football Manager players but football isn't just about tactics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 It's basically sacrificing all attacking play in order for Ba to get goals. His individual ability and tendency to score goals from shit long balls saved us for a while. Not any longer. Shift. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 It's basically sacrificing all attacking play in order for Ba to get goals. His individual ability and tendency to score goals from s*** long balls saved us for a while. Not any longer. Shift. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 It's basically sacrificing all attacking play in order for Ba to get goals. No team has every won a game playing 4-4-2? Krul continually smashing it long is as big a problem as any tactical problem we have. Change that and other things will change. Or just blame Ba for everything? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Way too trigger happy. His decision making in the final third has been poor at best. At worst worryingly single minded for a guy playing in a struggling team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Or just blame Ba for everything? Eh yeah, Ba out!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 It's basically sacrificing all attacking play in order for Ba to get goals. No team has every won a game playing 4-4-2? Krul continually smashing it long is as big a problem as any tactical problem we have. Change that and other things will change. Or just blame Ba for everything? 4-4-2 is very much about partnerships isn't? We have a few problems there. The front 2 aren't an effective partnership, the midfield 2 aren't an effective partnership. Bit of width in a 4-4-2 is essential, are we getting crosses in from the left? No, are we getting crosses in from the right? No. If the above was working, if the players were making it work there would be no debate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Think that's a pretty good point about partnerships Lotus. There's generally little-to-no understanding in most areas of the team and the two strikers seem to best exemplify this. As well as we did last season in terms of being an entire unit, I do think there's a lot to be said for having "key zones" where you've got a couple of players or more who work particularly well together. The obvious one in recent times would be Coloccini, Enrique and Jonas as a trio and as two separate pairs (Colo/Enrique - Enrique/Jonas), but there was a lot to be said for Carroll and Nolan as well. Could perhaps even throw Barton into with those two. There's fuck all like that now as far as I can see, we look more like a team of talented individuals doing their own thing at the best of times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Ba is the only real player in our team doing his job so yeah... lets put him wide or better still drop him or sell him. f***ing crazy! As for this apparent bad attitude I don't see it, the guy generally works as hard as anyone in the team and seems to get more upset than most when we lose or he misses the target. I don't see a selfish player at all and nor do I see a problematic one. As for him not wanting to play wide I don't blame him, he's a central striker and in that position all he has done is score goals. The fact him and Cisse is not working as a partnership has nowt to do with Ba playing central or even Cisse, its down to our shitty tactics and the form of the side. Cabaye and Tiote this season haven't played well together, shall we put Tiote wide? Colo at left-back to make Taylor stand out more? Its f***ing nonsense to suggest we need to or must move a player playing rather well in his current role, out wide, in order to make Cisse better or to get him amongst the goals. By the way, when we reverted to 4-3-3 last season, Cisse spent most of the game in wide positions but because we were fluid in attack he also managed to get into the box a lot as well, as did Ba who could have scored a few goals in the 4-3-3 or in the so-called wide berth he was supposedly playing in that system. He was still getting chances but wasn't putting them away. Ba and Cisse can play together but we need to give them more service and as a team need to attack the opposition more. Both spend most of the game battling for a high ball with defenders and when they do somehow manage to win the ball, there is f*** all around them to get an attacking going. The gap between them and midfield is huge and they are so close together up front because the ball is often hit down the middle, we have no width in the very final 3rd. There is no golden rule in football that states a striker combination must dovetail perfectly in order to work, that's bull s***. Its all about the service, form and attacking. Both Ba and Cisse have enough attributes and qualities to get amongst the goals as a pair or even in a forward three, but they need service first and foremost. As things stand with the bull s*** football we 'play' Ba is the better option with Cisse just a waste of a shirt really be it alongside Ba or wide or wherever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Who wants him dropped or sold? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 It's basically sacrificing all attacking play in order for Ba to get goals. No team has every won a game playing 4-4-2? Krul continually smashing it long is as big a problem as any tactical problem we have. Change that and other things will change. Or just blame Ba for everything? 4-4-2 is very much about partnerships isn't? We have a few problems there. The front 2 aren't an effective partnership, the midfield 2 aren't an effective partnership. Bit of width in a 4-4-2 is essential, are we getting crosses in from the left? No, are we getting crosses in from the right? No. If the above was working, if the players were making it work there would be no debate. Almost any formation or game plan is rendered pointless when long balls are played to players who can't deal with them so that's eliminating our midfield and our strikers in 1 kick. We could have Xavi and Iniesta in the middle and they wouldn't be effective at all with this "routine". Krul playing it short would solve so many problems. We'd be forced to build from the back which would heavily involve the midfield and then hopefully lead to a chance for our predatory strikers, who are both in the middle and not wasted out on the touchline. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 It's basically sacrificing all attacking play in order for Ba to get goals. No team has every won a game playing 4-4-2? Krul continually smashing it long is as big a problem as any tactical problem we have. Change that and other things will change. Or just blame Ba for everything? 4-4-2 is very much about partnerships isn't? We have a few problems there. The front 2 aren't an effective partnership, the midfield 2 aren't an effective partnership. Bit of width in a 4-4-2 is essential, are we getting crosses in from the left? No, are we getting crosses in from the right? No. If the above was working, if the players were making it work there would be no debate. I actually think playing two strikers centrally in the 4-4-2 system doesn't require there to be any kind of 'partnership', not as much is as required in a 4-3-3 or a 4-5-1 for example. Pairing two strikers up top is all about the service from wide and through the middle. Shearer and Sir Les both scored goals and got involved aplenty despite both playing up there in the number 9 position basically and that's because there was enough service for both to get some action if you like. 4-4-2 is such a basic system/formation you could put any two players together up front and both would get amongst the goals if crosses were coming in thick and fast or through balls were being played aplenty. 4-4-2 is in many ways is all about percentages which is why Pardew favours it but we are getting the percentages all wrong. How many crosses? How many through balls? Fire in 20 crosses a game from either flank and your two front men will score or get a chance to score and when the ball breaks loose a midfielder is more than likely to get a goal or a chance to score too. Play a ball behind or through 20 times a game and likewise. We just hoof it and that's about it. Ba has done amazingly well to score as many as he has. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Ba is the only real player in our team doing his job so yeah... lets put him wide or better still drop him or sell him. f***ing crazy! Because he's the only one that suits this style of football and we are playing this way because of him... No one wants him dropped or sold, it's not a coincidence that he's the only attacker that looks comfortable under this system and style of play it's because it's built for HIM and thus restricting everyone else around him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Ba is the only real player in our team doing his job so yeah... lets put him wide or better still drop him or sell him. f***ing crazy! Because he's the only one that suits this style of football and we are playing this way because of him... No one wants him dropped or sold, it's not a coincidence that he's the only attacker that looks comfortable under this system and style of play it's because it's built for HIM and thus restricting everyone else around him. Ba doesn't suit this style in the slightest He's playing as a target man when he's blatantly not one. Why do you think he drops deep for half the game? merle pls Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Ba is the only real player in our team doing his job so yeah... lets put him wide or better still drop him or sell him. f***ing crazy! Because he's the only one that suits this style of football and we are playing this way because of him... No one wants him dropped or sold, it's not a coincidence that he's the only attacker that looks comfortable under this system and style of play it's because it's built for HIM and thus restricting everyone else around him. Absolute bull s***, we do not play this way because of Ba and he does not look comfortable under this style of play in any way shape or form, none of them do. Its actually embarrassing to see him toil away like some kind of f***ing battering ram type forward getting by on scraps or his own individual ability get a goal when we know he is such a good all-round footballer capable of brilliance. We play this way because the manager wants to play this way and for no other reason, as he has demonstrated throughout his career with all of his sides. Ba, Cisse, Shola it doesn't matter who is up top, that ball will go long. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenham Mag Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Who wants him dropped or sold? Me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Yeah it has nothing to do with Ba moaning about playing on the left and Pardew succumbing to his every command and promising he will play up front even if it is detriment to the team..... Restricting Cabaye, Cisse and Ben Arfa to the extent that they are useless..... Ben Arfa is so deep he might as well be a wing back, Cabaye is so deep he might as well be standing on Coloccini toes and Cisse is never in the box anymore due to playing to Ba. This is whole system is designed to get the best out of Ba even if it's a detriment to the team as a whole it's no coincidence at all that he's scoring while the rest of the team is struggling. Ba is scoring but we are going down in the process so whats the point. Build the team around Ba and the overall football suffers as a whole, build the team around Cabaye, Ben Arfa and Cisse like we did at the end of last season and the football is fantastic even if it means Ba not scoring. Ba might score like this but the team plays like shit and i for one don't accept one individual being bigger than the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Ba is the only real player in our team doing his job so yeah... lets put him wide or better still drop him or sell him. f***ing crazy! Because he's the only one that suits this style of football and we are playing this way because of him... No one wants him dropped or sold, it's not a coincidence that he's the only attacker that looks comfortable under this system and style of play it's because it's built for HIM and thus restricting everyone else around him. Absolute bull s***, we do not play this way because of Ba and he does not look comfortable under this style of play in any way shape or form, none of them do. Its actually embarrassing to see him toil away like some kind of f***ing battering ram type forward getting by on scraps or his own individual ability get a goal when we know he is such a good all-round footballer capable of brilliance. We play this way because the manager wants to play this way and for no other reason, as he has demonstrated throughout his career with all of his sides. Ba, Cisse, Shola it doesn't matter who is up top, that ball will go long. Eh? People are suggesting we play a different way and moving Ba wide would be key to that. If we want Cisse and Ba on the pitch together (which is when we will be most potent) then Ba going wide, or dropping deep, is really the only way it will work if we're going to go with 3 in the centre. You cannot critisise people for wanting to change things AND Pardew for not changing things at the same time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Cisse HAS to be the main striker, he's totally useless if he isn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Mole Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Mole I'm sorry for Ba being Premier League Golden Boot winner is more important to you than us staying up i really am. But don't be so short sighted, there's more to football than just who scores the goals and we are suffering as a team due to Ba being the central figure. It is possible to be a crap team and still have someone scoring goals you know? Darren Bent has made a career out of scoring and dragging teams down with him. At the moment we are a crap team and as long as Ba is the central figure and we restrict the rest of our star players we will remain one. But hey if we go down you can console yourself with Ba's golden boot award. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 4-4-2 for Ba means Cabaye, HBA, Cisse and Jonas suffer in their game but Ba gets goals. 4-3-3 means the team plays better, we have multiple goalscoring threats and look a much more potent side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Mole I'm sorry for Ba being Premier League Golden Boot winner is more important to you than us staying up i really am. But don't be so short sighted, there's more to football than just who scores the goals and we are suffering as a team due to Ba being the central figure. It is possible to be a crap team and still have someone scoring goals you know? Darren Bent has made a career out of scoring and dragging teams down with him. At the moment we are a crap team and as long as Ba is the central figure and we restrict the rest of our star players we will remain one. But hey if we go down you can console yourself with Ba's golden boot award. at the bit in bold. You're the most short sighted person on here over this clichéd 4-3-3 nonsense. It's all you've talked about all season. You assume it'll transform us into a wondrous passing and free flowing attacking team but it just won't. Life isn't a computer game. Blaming Ba for managerial ineptness is also hugely short sighted but whatevz innit. You stick with your dreams and fantasies of 4-3-3 and I'll live in the real world of Pardew being an idiot and Ba keeping us in the league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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