AlanSkÃrare Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 There are other formations than 4-4-2 and 4-3-3 though. One of our strikers doesn't have to be on the wing to win games, despite what we all read constantly on here. Can't believe we're in a situation where having TWO 20 goal a season strikers is a burden ffs. Absolutely insane that this is considered a valid excuse to defend the manager. I'd love to know what an attack minded manager would do with them. He'd have a plan when buying the second one. He'd then stick to that plan. Not have the team suffer to accomodate one individual. What Pardew did when he moved Demba to the left was benefitial for the team. We're all clinging on to the thought of how we played when he was out there. We haven't played as well with him being in the middle, no matter how good he's been. And he's been fantastic in spells. I genuinely can't believe we reverted from the system used in March/April. I'm all for playing more direct in certain games. But the signing of Anita and the way Cabaye, Cissé and Ben Arfa were performing in that period pointed so much towards the plan being to stick with three midfielders and three fowards. I'd love us to settle for that system. I'd love for us to choose between Ba and Cissé. I think they both offer us so much when deployed correctly. I'd love for us to use Anita as the dynamic link in midfield, for the old Tioté to hammer people by his side, for Cabaye to construct our attacks. For Coloccini to have a CB worthy of partnering him. Frustration is setting in more than any real worry. We have the foundations of a brilliant side here. Full of confidence coming from last season. Had we bolstered things with 2-3 more players and kept focusing on our strengths instead of convulsivley trying to please individuals and stick to an approach that worked because of Coloccini/Krul's individual brilliance last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Very confident that if Keegan had Ba and Cisse at his disposal, they'd both get 20 goals no bother. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The manager's been working with them both for nearly a year, why do they still occupy the same space in his preferred formation? It's hilarious how they both run to the center of the box. Lemmings. I'd imagine in training at a PL football club one might be instructed to come to the near post or come short/drift to the edge of the box. Not on your nelly! Straight to the middle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Very confident that if Keegan had Ba and Cisse at his disposal, they'd both get 20 goals no bother. And Ben Arfa would be tearing the league a new arse AND Marveaux would be starting most games AND Cabaye would be transformed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Very confident that if Keegan had Ba and Cisse at his disposal, they'd both get 20 goals no bother. And Ben Arfa would be tearing the league a new arse AND Marveaux would be starting most games AND Cabaye would be transformed. And the deficit would be history by now, and the eurozone would be completely sorted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The manager's been working with them both for nearly a year, why do they still occupy the same space in his preferred formation? It's hilarious how they both run to the center of the box. Lemmings. I'd imagine in training at a PL football club one might be instructed to come to the near post or come short/drift to the edge of the box. Not on your nelly! Straight to the middle. Shouldn't they already know this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Cisse has played a fair bit in the middle this year. s***. Yes he has, as part of a 4-4-2, with a right footer on the left wing and a left footer on the right wing so they can't cross properly to him and the rest of the team just hoofing the ball up front. Baffled as to what you think that proves. He needs to play in the middle of a 4-3-3, or in a 4-4-2 with the wingers on the correct wings. Sadly we lack the personnel to do the latter, and the manager lacks the balls to do the former. Honestly, have you ever heard of a striker that can't play in a 4-4-2? Seriously? It's the same formation Ba has scored 10 goals in. Ba could do with some crosses too. Yes the service has been poor for Cisse (and Ba) but he HAS had chances. I just want people to admit Cisse has legitimately been poor and some of the blame lays with the player himself. He has the same amount of goals as Hatem & Cabaye. It's not good enough. Being offside all the time is nobody's fault but his own. The fact he's probably been offside more than any other player shows he's been in goal scoring positions and messed it up. Not always his fault for being off side. It can also be caused by not anticipating the striker's run quickly and releasing the ball too late where the strike is now in an offside position. This is exactly what happened to Cisse at Stoke when he made a great run but Tiote or whoever he was took seconds longer than they should have before they released the ball which was too late and obviously very frustrating for Cisse. being offside is largely the strikers fault. He has a history of consistently being offside as have the likes of Pippo Inzaghi, it's not the other players fault. As a striker you are taught to keep yourself onside and wait for the pass. You can't control when the other player releases the ball but you can control your position. This is football fundamentals. Yes, sometimes the players should look for him earlier I agree but moreso he often kills the momentum of moves by clearly being a yard or This is my problem with this board. Some players constantly have excuses made for them. Especially Colo & Cisse who, had they done their jobs properly would've got us some points yesterday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I think they've been linking up a little better of late but I think that's been aided by having someone occupying an attacking midfielder's space. Anita, Marveaux and HBA have all had periods of the game playing just behind them, in recent matches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Very confident that if Keegan had Ba and Cisse at his disposal, they'd both get 20 goals no bother. And Ben Arfa would be tearing the league a new arse AND Marveaux would be starting most games AND Cabaye would be transformed. Keegler would do a bit of five a side, talk positive to a couple of younguns and get Asprilla in to work with the strikers. He would get a couple of CD's who love coming forward with the ball and in the evenings they'd all settle down to fish and chips and a good movie. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The manager's been working with them both for nearly a year, why do they still occupy the same space in his preferred formation? It's hilarious how they both run to the center of the box. Lemmings. I'd imagine in training at a PL football club one might be instructed to come to the near post or come short/drift to the edge of the box. Not on your nelly! Straight to the middle. Shouldn't they already know this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The manager's been working with them both for nearly a year, why do they still occupy the same space in his preferred formation? It's hilarious how they both run to the center of the box. Lemmings. I'd imagine in training at a PL football club one might be instructed to come to the near post or come short/drift to the edge of the box. Not on your nelly! Straight to the middle. I can't see how it can't be too hard not to simply watch what the other is doing and make sure your not standing on top of each other. One goes short, one goes long etc. The fact Pardew hasn't sorted it out is a farce. How can this be solely attributed to the manager? Should the players themselves not know they need to do that? Or do they simply do it because the manager, supposedly, hasn't said otherwise? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The manager's been working with them both for nearly a year, why do they still occupy the same space in his preferred formation? It's hilarious how they both run to the center of the box. Lemmings. I'd imagine in training at a PL football club one might be instructed to come to the near post or come short/drift to the edge of the box. Not on your nelly! Straight to the middle. It simply adds to the evidence that we don't focus much on attacking and expressing ourselves as a team. Almost every manager that has beaten us has mentioned how it was such an achievement because of the striking firepower we can field, and yet there seems to be little or no progression in their partnership over the last 11 months. That's on the management team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The manager's been working with them both for nearly a year, why do they still occupy the same space in his preferred formation? It's hilarious how they both run to the center of the box. Lemmings. I'd imagine in training at a PL football club one might be instructed to come to the near post or come short/drift to the edge of the box. Not on your nelly! Straight to the middle. I can't see how it can't be too hard not to simply watch what the other is doing and make sure your not standing on top of each other. One goes short, one goes long etc. The fact Pardew hasn't sorted it out is a farce. How can this be solely attributed to the manager? Should the players themselves not know they need to do that? Or do they simply do it because the manager, supposedly, hasn't said otherwise? These two are Ronin if I've ever clapped eyes on one. These here are renegade Samurai who have broken with the training. They shoot from anywhere with either foot on instinct. They need harnessing to the cause. The manager simply either doesn't know how to or doesn't think it's important. It's being going on for so long it's ridiculous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 PS it's not just the strikers, it's the balls we put in and the overall pattern of play when we're trying to score. Aside from the floated ball to Williamson, expecting Ben Arfa to do something special or expecting Simpson to morph into Gary Neville, I'm struggling to think of what ours is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Oh no, wait. Run fast and win headers, that's it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 PS it's not just the strikers, it's the balls we put in and the overall pattern of play when we're trying to score. Aside from the floated ball to Williamson, expecting Ben Arfa to do something special or expecting Simpson to morph into Gary Neville, I'm struggling to think of what ours is. Was just about to broaden it to that. It's generally accepted that you can't really play two out and out strikers these days in the PL. One has to be a withdrawn striker like a Michu or a Dempsey who can move around in the space in front of the back four and link moves and add cohesion. I still think Hatem could do that if he was strated centrally and with a license to play it as he sees it. When he starts on the left he's too far away from the dangerous areas and when he starts on the right often 2/3 are at his legs. He should be where the space is in the grey zone where the likes of Michu and Ruiz are thriving. The Pl over the last decade has become far more techinical and this hitting stuff over the top or generally into the box just doesn't cut it anymore. Ba and Hatem are good friends and have an understanding they should start for now with a compact and battling mf behind them keeping it tight with short passes and perhaps Cabaye pulling the strings in that zone. Jol and strangely Rodgers break the pitch up into three or four zones and they have a ball player in each one who is given the ball to move it up into the next zone. With Liv it's Joe Allen and with Fulham it's Ruiz. Jol said in the post match how much Ruiz was missed as they went on their bad run. Our nominated zone masters should be Collo > Cabaye > Hatem. Willo should never be playing the pass out of defence and the same for Tiote in the next zone. They should just give the ball to Collo and Cabaye or Hatem if an early ball is on. This should be drilled on the training ground in 7 v 9 games every fukin day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The crossing at Fulham was laughable, more than usual tbh. We got into so many positions and produced absolutley nothing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Have we scored from a cross this season that wasn't put in by Ferguson? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocker Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The crossing at Fulham was laughable, more than usual tbh. We got into so many positions and produced absolutley nothing. Don't think I've ever seen Simpson cross a ball that hasn't been pennyfloatered through the air. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Very confident that if Keegan had Ba and Cisse at his disposal, they'd both get 20 goals no bother. And Ben Arfa would be tearing the league a new arse AND Marveaux would be starting most games AND Cabaye would be transformed. And the deficit would be history by now, and the eurozone would be completely sorted. they are talking about Keegan being manager not PM, but yeah if he was it would. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I still think Hatem could do that if he was strated centrally(...) and with a license to play it as he sees it. (...) He should be where the space is in the grey zone(...) Our nominated zone masters should be Collo > Cabaye > Hatem. (I thought Hatem was very good at Fulham when he played centrally in the second half. Seriously, I think Jol was happy to see him be replaced. ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smal Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Have we scored from a cross this season that wasn't put in by Ferguson? Cabaye's stunner vs Liverpool was crossed in by HBA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoot Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Have we scored from a cross this season that wasn't put in by Ferguson? Nope. There was a stat out a few weeks ago that we had scored just 1 goal out of our last 270 corners. That total number of corners will be greater now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The manager's been working with them both for nearly a year, why do they still occupy the same space in his preferred formation? It's hilarious how they both run to the center of the box. Lemmings. I'd imagine in training at a PL football club one might be instructed to come to the near post or come short/drift to the edge of the box. Not on your nelly! Straight to the middle. Neville was stating it as a plus point how they follow each other on Monday iirc, pointing out the goal against Wigan where 'if Ba didn't put it in Cisse would have' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 He said cross, not corner.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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