loki679 Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 We're making £50m profit a year at the moment. Investing £50m a year into the first team would make a massive difference and that's without sending the club into debt, without borrowing, without stupid installments. Simply investing our profits would see us competing at the right end of the table (including a proper salary for a real manager). We haven't reported a profit before player trading yet. Operating profit for the last 7 years has been... -29.0m -24.7m -37.7m -33.5m -3.9m -5.1m -0.6m I'd expect us to spend in Summer. Conveniently ignoring the mahoosive tv deal Why discount player trading btw? Does that money not count? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallsendmag Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Maybe if he allowed some other sponsors some coverage inside the stadium at the expense of some of his sports direct adverts the club may well make a profit before player trading. Every other club in the PL has grown their commercial revenue massively in the past 7 years except us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_R Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 We're making £50m profit a year at the moment. Investing £50m a year into the first team would make a massive difference and that's without sending the club into debt, without borrowing, without stupid installments. Simply investing our profits would see us competing at the right end of the table (including a proper salary for a real manager). We haven't reported a profit before player trading yet. Operating profit for the last 7 years has been... -29.0m -24.7m -37.7m -33.5m -3.9m -5.1m -0.6m I'd expect us to spend in Summer. Conveniently ignoring the mahoosive tv deal Why discount player trading btw? Does that money not count? I struggle to trust these numbers. Remember that Starbucks reported a profit of £1.05m last year. They have 791 stores and that's the first profit they've reported in 17 years. Never underestimate the importance of a decent accountant. I'd be amazed if the numbers NUFC report are anywhere near indicative of the financial performance of the club and everything associated with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 We're making £50m profit a year at the moment. Investing £50m a year into the first team would make a massive difference and that's without sending the club into debt, without borrowing, without stupid installments. Simply investing our profits would see us competing at the right end of the table (including a proper salary for a real manager). We haven't reported a profit before player trading yet. Operating profit for the last 7 years has been... -29.0m -24.7m -37.7m -33.5m -3.9m -5.1m -0.6m I'd expect us to spend in Summer. Conveniently ignoring the mahoosive tv deal Why discount player trading btw? Does that money not count? I struggle to trust these numbers. Remember that Starbucks reported a profit of £1.05m last year. They have 791 stores and that's the first profit they've reported in 17 years. Never underestimate the importance of a decent accountant. I'd be amazed if the numbers NUFC report are anywhere near indicative of the financial performance of the club and everything associated with it. That cant be right surely? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymc1 Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 We're making £50m profit a year at the moment. Investing £50m a year into the first team would make a massive difference and that's without sending the club into debt, without borrowing, without stupid installments. Simply investing our profits would see us competing at the right end of the table (including a proper salary for a real manager). We haven't reported a profit before player trading yet. Operating profit for the last 7 years has been... -29.0m -24.7m -37.7m -33.5m -3.9m -5.1m -0.6m I'd expect us to spend in Summer. Conveniently ignoring the mahoosive tv deal Why discount player trading btw? Does that money not count? I struggle to trust these numbers. Remember that Starbucks reported a profit of £1.05m last year. They have 791 stores and that's the first profit they've reported in 17 years. Never underestimate the importance of a decent accountant. I'd be amazed if the numbers NUFC report are anywhere near indicative of the financial performance of the club and everything associated with it. That cant be right surely? Pre-Tax "profits" for starbucks in the last three accounts. 2012: -30,403,907 2013: -20,465,123 2014: 1,056,196 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_R Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 They'd have carried on the charade if it wasn't for the uproar in the media when someone noticed they'd paid NO tax at all for nearly 2 decades. So they sheepishly announced a tiny, token profit so they would pay a tiny bit of tax. I'm highlighting Starbucks, but every company uses legal and not so legal means to minimise their tax exposure. I'm sure Newcastle United are no different in that regard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 How is the summer spend relevant? I couldn't give a shit when the money is spent.. Discussion started with someone laughing at me for thinking we would spend in the summer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Always easier to look like we spend when you ignore the £70M+ we made over various January windows But the point I was laughed at for was that we will spend in Summer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 We're making £50m profit a year at the moment. Investing £50m a year into the first team would make a massive difference and that's without sending the club into debt, without borrowing, without stupid installments. Simply investing our profits would see us competing at the right end of the table (including a proper salary for a real manager). We haven't reported a profit before player trading yet. Operating profit for the last 7 years has been... -29.0m -24.7m -37.7m -33.5m -3.9m -5.1m -0.6m I'd expect us to spend in Summer. Conveniently ignoring the mahoosive tv deal Why discount player trading btw? Does that money not count? Because people seem happy enough that we basically spend what we earn from player trading. My point is that there's been nothing in the kitty over and above that to spend. Until now. There were TV deals in place when those results were announced. We've increased outlay since moving into the current TV deal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Maybe if he allowed some other sponsors some coverage inside the stadium at the expense of some of his sports direct adverts the club may well make a profit before player trading. Every other club in the PL has grown their commercial revenue massively in the past 7 years except us. Spot on. That's where he deserves criticism. NUFC growth is restricted for the benefit of his shops retail operations and publicity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 They'd have carried on the charade if it wasn't for the uproar in the media when someone noticed they'd paid NO tax at all for nearly 2 decades. So they sheepishly announced a tiny, token profit so they would pay a tiny bit of tax. I'm highlighting Starbucks, but every company uses legal and not so legal means to minimise their tax exposure. I'm sure Newcastle United are no different in that regard. I'm told Newcastle have built up enough losses over the last 2 decades that paying tax on profits isn't really a concern. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I see where HF is coming from and agree with him to an extent. I think we will spend in the Summer simply because we need too. I've little faith of the amount being significant or the quality being good enough though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 We're making £50m profit a year at the moment. Investing £50m a year into the first team would make a massive difference and that's without sending the club into debt, without borrowing, without stupid installments. Simply investing our profits would see us competing at the right end of the table (including a proper salary for a real manager). We haven't reported a profit before player trading yet. Operating profit for the last 7 years has been... -29.0m -24.7m -37.7m -33.5m -3.9m -5.1m -0.6m I'd expect us to spend in Summer. Conveniently ignoring the mahoosive tv deal Why discount player trading btw? Does that money not count? I struggle to trust these numbers. Remember that Starbucks reported a profit of £1.05m last year. They have 791 stores and that's the first profit they've reported in 17 years. Never underestimate the importance of a decent accountant. I'd be amazed if the numbers NUFC report are anywhere near indicative of the financial performance of the club and everything associated with it. That cant be right surely? Pre-Tax "profits" for starbucks in the last three accounts. 2012: -30,403,907 2013: -20,465,123 2014: 1,056,196 Fucking Hell I'd heard little bits and bobs about the Tax Dodging but didnt really pay much attention. How'd they manage to get away with that for so long? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonTastic Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Wasnt it something daft like Starbucks don't actually own anything, they make there money basically like a franchise and each shop is an individual franchise. So despite all the profits the shops bring Starbucks as an entity didn't make anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Wasnt it something daft like Starbucks don't actually own anything, they make there money basically like a franchise and each shop is an individual franchise. So despite all the profits the shops bring Starbucks as an entity didn't make anything. Just had a quick google, looks like they were paying royalties to a Sister Company, also selling coffee beans to themselves at a higher price so made it look as though no profit was made. A couple of other sneaky tricks too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I see where HF is coming from and agree with him to an extent. I think we will spend in the Summer simply because we need too. I've little faith of the amount being significant or the quality being good enough though. I guess I'm trying to rally against the perceived wisdom that NUFC will always spend the minimum amount necessary to survive. The fact is that under Mike Ashley, NUFC has spent the maximum amount it can afford without having to borrow any more from Mike Ashley. That capacity takes a massive leap with every new TV deal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I see where HF is coming from and agree with him to an extent. I think we will spend in the Summer simply because we need too. I've little faith of the amount being significant or the quality being good enough though. I guess I'm trying to rally against the perceived wisdom that NUFC will always spend the minimum amount necessary to survive. The fact is that under Mike Ashley, NUFC has spent the maximum amount it can afford without having to borrow any more from Mike Ashley. That capacity takes a massive leap with every new TV deal. Fucking hell what absolute guff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 He also seems to allocate a wedge from the first year of a new TV deal to repaying the loan. Given that £11m was repaid a few years ago and we assume he'll take £18m from the 13/14 accounts, after taking nowt for a couple of years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonTastic Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 See I understand where HF is coming from. Despite all the sales the club was still not make a profit each season until very recently. Therefore without spreading costs of seasons and paying for everything upfront we have spent the maximum amount available. Why we don't spread the costs whilst allowing other clubs to spread the costs is beyond me though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Wasnt it something daft like Starbucks don't actually own anything, they make there money basically like a franchise and each shop is an individual franchise. So despite all the profits the shops bring Starbucks as an entity didn't make anything. Just had a quick google, looks like they were paying royalties to a Sister Company, also selling coffee beans to themselves at a higher price so made it look as though no profit was made. A couple of other sneaky tricks too. Its also growing really rapidly, its easy to 'lose' profit in a rapidly gorwing company whilst maintaining a good cashflow. I see where HF is coming from and agree with him to an extent. I think we will spend in the Summer simply because we need too. I've little faith of the amount being significant or the quality being good enough though. I guess I'm trying to rally against the perceived wisdom that NUFC will always spend the minimum amount necessary to survive. The fact is that under Mike Ashley, NUFC has spent the maximum amount it can afford without having to borrow any more from Mike Ashley. That capacity takes a massive leap with every new TV deal. Those amounts are probably the same Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I see where HF is coming from and agree with him to an extent. I think we will spend in the Summer simply because we need too. I've little faith of the amount being significant or the quality being good enough though. I guess I'm trying to rally against the perceived wisdom that NUFC will always spend the minimum amount necessary to survive. The fact is that under Mike Ashley, NUFC has spent the maximum amount it can afford without having to borrow any more from Mike Ashley. That capacity takes a massive leap with every new TV deal. Fucking hell what absolute guff Which unused money should the club have been spending more of? Has the clubs coffers been going up like Arsenal? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 See I understand where HF is coming from. Despite all the sales the club was still not make a profit each season until very recently. Therefore without spreading costs of seasons and paying for everything upfront we have spent the maximum amount available. Why we don't spread the costs whilst allowing other clubs to spread the costs is beyond me though. We do spread costs, we don't spread cashflow. Paying upfront was a good bargaining tool early on, shame the conduct of our negotiators have blunted the willingness of sellers to engage with us Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Wasnt it something daft like Starbucks don't actually own anything, they make there money basically like a franchise and each shop is an individual franchise. So despite all the profits the shops bring Starbucks as an entity didn't make anything. Just had a quick google, looks like they were paying royalties to a Sister Company, also selling coffee beans to themselves at a higher price so made it look as though no profit was made. A couple of other sneaky tricks too. Its also growing really rapidly, its easy to 'lose' profit in a rapidly gorwing company whilst maintaining a good cashflow. I see where HF is coming from and agree with him to an extent. I think we will spend in the Summer simply because we need too. I've little faith of the amount being significant or the quality being good enough though. I guess I'm trying to rally against the perceived wisdom that NUFC will always spend the minimum amount necessary to survive. The fact is that under Mike Ashley, NUFC has spent the maximum amount it can afford without having to borrow any more from Mike Ashley. That capacity takes a massive leap with every new TV deal. Those amounts are probably the same Absolutley, but the perception of Ashley changes massively depending on how you frame it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonTastic Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 He also seems to allocate a wedge from the first year of a new TV deal to repaying the loan. Given that £11m was repaid a few years ago and we assume he'll take £18m from the 13/14 accounts, after taking nowt for a couple of years. The original repayment was for the overdraft and small loan when we went down was it not ? Would this not be the first repayment from the original/big/his cock up debt ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 He also seems to allocate a wedge from the first year of a new TV deal to repaying the loan. Given that £11m was repaid a few years ago and we assume he'll take £18m from the 13/14 accounts, after taking nowt for a couple of years. The original repayment was for the overdraft and small loan when we went down was it not ? Would this not be the first repayment from the original/big/his cock up debt ? I don't think so. £140m debt when we came back up included £29m Ashley had put in after relegation to keep things ticking over. That's the last he put in. £11m was repaid in 2011 I think and £18m remains to be repaid. If he starts recouping the big wedge we have a more pain to come, but I think he wants that debt left in place. He runs SD with debt and he's incolved with 5 clubs all with a history of debt problems. Even if he sold NUFC, he could uyse the debt as leverage in retaining his existing retail/advertising deals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts