relámpago blanco Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 no , the holding company that owns the club owes Ashley x amount of money But doesn't Ashley also own the holding company? So in essence he owes himself that amount? I'm confused. Bottom line. If Ashley leaves then he can ask for that money back which is putting off potential suitors? Correct? Yes. What does the club owe him I forget 250 million or something, so he's looking for the value of the club plus what hes owed, probably putting the price at 350-400 million, which is obviously no where near what we are worth. If some Billionaire wants to buy a club, he buy a shit one for 50 million quid invest 300 million and they'll be challenging for the title or at least champions league. Buy us have to invest another 200 million to get us challenging for the league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 no , the holding company that owns the club owes Ashley x amount of money But doesn't Ashley also own the holding company? So in essence he owes himself that amount? I'm confused. Bottom line. If Ashley leaves then he can ask for that money back which is putting off potential suitors? Correct? Pretty much. 'Interest free loan' is how it's usually spun. Last couple of accounting years and we (the club) have started paying it back to the holding company but that's usually spun as the extra that Ashley had to put it in when we were in the Championship. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 no , the holding company that owns the club owes Ashley x amount of money But doesn't Ashley also own the holding company? So in essence he owes himself that amount? I'm confused. Bottom line. If Ashley leaves then he can ask for that money back which is putting off potential suitors? Correct? Yes. What does the club owe him I forget 250 million or something, so he's looking for the value of the club plus what hes owed, probably putting the price at 350-400 million, which is obviously no where near what we are worth. If some Billionaire wants to buy a club, he buy a shit one for 50 million quid invest 300 million and they'll be challenging for the title or at least champions league. Buy us have to invest another 200 million to get us challenging for the league. 250? Thought it was 135? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J7 Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 At the moment nobody will buy us. We're basically floating along doing the bare minimum until something changes. Clubs like Norwich and Swansea are showing the ambition we should be. We're rotten top to bottom. Virtually nothing at the club is done to its maximum potential. As a club we don't even try to succeed so we don't deserve anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Thought the total amount including the Ashley "debt" is about 135-150 + 100M so roughly 235-250 all-in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 At the moment nobody will buy us. We're basically floating along doing the bare minimum until something changes. Clubs like Norwich and Swansea are showing the ambition we should be. We're rotten top to bottom. Virtually nothing at the club is done to its maximum potential. As a club we don't even try to succeed so we don't deserve anything. I sort of agree but it's all relative. I mean, Swansea and Norwich are arguably progressing more - but they also have pretty much the exact ambition we do, to stay PL teams. Do you think they'll be risking their stability on a push for the Champions League any time soon? I don't. I find this jealously of those clubs from NUFC fans hard to come to terms with. All they've done is sign a couple of promising players, like everyone does at some point. We have a team packed with players they would take in a second. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 At the moment nobody will buy us. We're basically floating along doing the bare minimum until something changes. Clubs like Norwich and Swansea are showing the ambition we should be. We're rotten top to bottom. Virtually nothing at the club is done to its maximum potential. As a club we don't even try to succeed so we don't deserve anything. I sort of agree but it's all relative. I mean, Swansea and Norwich are arguably progressing more - but they also have pretty much the exact ambition we do, to stay PL teams. Do you think they'll be risking their stability on a push for the Champions League any time soon? I don't. I find this jealously of those clubs from NUFC fans hard to come to terms with. All they've done is sign a couple of promising players, like everyone does at some point. We have a team packed with players they would take in a second. Swansea have won a trophy, play great football, have an eminently affable manager, are run well by fans of the club and are in Europe next season. Don't see what's not too like tbh, regardless of who they bought/buy. Long term yes we're bigger/better but football is rarely a LT game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Nah, I like them and I agree with all that. But it's temporary, probably. I know we're badly run at the moment but I just dislike this idealisation of the way other clubs operate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Nah, I like them and I agree with all that. But it's temporary, probably. I know we're badly run at the moment but I just dislike this idealisation of the way other clubs operate. Grass is always greener and all that but Swansea are definitely a (if not the) shining light in how run a PL club so IMO it's totally understandable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Nah, I like them and I agree with all that. But it's temporary, probably. I know we're badly run at the moment but I just dislike this idealisation of the way other clubs operate. Why should it be temporary though? Keep it up for another couple of seasons and they will be an established, trophy winning top half premiership side. A club of their size can pull that off too. A club of our size should really be aiming even higher than that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 no , the holding company that owns the club owes Ashley x amount of money But doesn't Ashley also own the holding company? So in essence he owes himself that amount? I'm confused. Bottom line. If Ashley leaves then he can ask for that money back which is putting off potential suitors? Correct? Its not so much about asking for any money owed, he can just ask any fee he wants for the club, I mean he owns it after all. What he paid for the club plus what he's invested (and hasn't yet been repaid) currently comes to somewhere around £250m. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 no , the holding company that owns the club owes Ashley x amount of money But doesn't Ashley also own the holding company? So in essence he owes himself that amount? I'm confused. Bottom line. If Ashley leaves then he can ask for that money back which is putting off potential suitors? Correct? Yes. What does the club owe him I forget 250 million or something, so he's looking for the value of the club plus what hes owed, probably putting the price at 350-400 million, which is obviously no where near what we are worth. If some Billionaire wants to buy a club, he buy a shit one for 50 million quid invest 300 million and they'll be challenging for the title or at least champions league. Buy us have to invest another 200 million to get us challenging for the league. It doesn't work like that. Al Fayed changing his loans to equity might have helped with FFP but it has no bearning on the ability to sell the club. And nor would any prospective purchaser consider the shareholder loans that Ashley has out to the club (at the holding company this loan is much bigger as he effectively lent his own company the funds to buy out the previous shareholders). If you were buying the club tomorrow you value it based on the business alone and not on any debt or excess cash in the business. Once those proceeds have satisfied any external debt that must be repaid, then Ashley can do what he likes, his debt and equity interest in the club would be extinguished. The real issue is that he has put such an amount of money into the club that it is difficult to see him getting it back with the club in the state it's in. It's his desire not to be seen to be taking a hit rather than our balance sheet which is the real obstacle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Nah, I like them and I agree with all that. But it's temporary, probably. I know we're badly run at the moment but I just dislike this idealisation of the way other clubs operate. Grass is always greener and all that but Swansea are definitely a (if not the) shining light in how run a PL club so IMO it's totally understandable. I can understand it to a degree. But then again a little over a year ago people were talking about us as one of the shining lights in how to run a Premier League club. Very little money spent on some exciting players picked up by our scouting network. Attacking Football and pushing for a Champions League spot with a manager being talked about as a potential England candidate. Thats what plenty saw and reported looking in from a distance anyway. Little did they know that while some of that was true it wasn't all rosy in the garden. Not suggesting Swansea will bring in a lunatic to undermine their manager or that Laudrup will suddenly become the Danish Pardew. Just that sometimes things aren't quite as amazing as they look from outside and things can also change fast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 At the moment nobody will buy us. We're basically floating along doing the bare minimum until something changes. Clubs like Norwich and Swansea are showing the ambition we should be. We're rotten top to bottom. Virtually nothing at the club is done to its maximum potential. As a club we don't even try to succeed so we don't deserve anything. I sort of agree but it's all relative. I mean, Swansea and Norwich are arguably progressing more - but they also have pretty much the exact ambition we do, to stay PL teams. Do you think they'll be risking their stability on a push for the Champions League any time soon? I don't. I find this jealously of those clubs from NUFC fans hard to come to terms with. All they've done is sign a couple of promising players, like everyone does at some point. We have a team packed with players they would take in a second. ...managed by a disaster of a manager who, despite all the January outlay in influx of these 'players other clubs would take in a second', struggled to avoid relegation until the last day of the season.. And you wonder why NUFC fans are jealous of the likes of Swansea.. At least they won some silverware last season...something that has been beyond our 'giant' of a club for over 40 years. Get real for heaven's sake... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bert Shaft Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Thought the total amount including the Ashley "debt" is about 135-150 + 100M so roughly 235-250 all-in. Funny that no matter how much money Ashley rakes in from transfers, we always seem to owe him £135m or so. Surely he's not creaming the profits off into his back pocket, he wouldn't do that to us would he? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chicken little Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Surely he's not creaming the profits off into his back pocket, he wouldn't do that to us would he? Why not read the accounts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Think he took about £11m last year, would imagine that would continue to happen while we're profitable. Woo hoo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Geordie Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Think he took about £11m last year, would imagine that would continue to happen while we're profitable. Woo hoo. This. Gonna take a while to pay him back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Dunno, he hasn't spent any of this TV money bounty last time I checked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Swansea have won a trophy, play great football, have an eminently affable manager, are run well by fans of the club and are in Europe next season. Don't see what's not too like tbh, regardless of who they bought/buy. Long term yes we're bigger/better but football is rarely a LT game. I’m curious to see how they not only cope in Europe but how they handle playing Thursday/Sunday on a regular basis, there squad is of a similar stature to ours so lets see if it affects there game which a lot on here think was irrelevant to Pardew and only an excuse so i think it will be very interesting to see how Laudrup copes with it. My guess is these could be in for an early exit and have another decent season or they go far and they have a poor league finish. Regardless of how the likes of Swansea/Southampton want to play/do play and who Norwich have signed, our first 11 is still far superior to there’s and I expect us to finish above all of said clubs with relative ease. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Dunno, he hasn't spent any of this TV money bounty last time I checked. We haven't received it have we, it's for this coming season? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ste Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 As things stand, we will struggle massively. No fresh faces, lack of depth up front, other teams have cottoned onto how we play and how to play against us... We need to see something new from Pardew if there aren't going to be many signings. He needs to have fresh ideas, and it can't be long ball, we're far better than using that as our plan A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Swansea have won a trophy, play great football, have an eminently affable manager, are run well by fans of the club and are in Europe next season. Don't see what's not too like tbh, regardless of who they bought/buy. Long term yes we're bigger/better but football is rarely a LT game. I’m curious to see how they not only cope in Europe but how they handle playing Thursday/Sunday on a regular basis, there squad is of a similar stature to ours so lets see if it affects there game which a lot on here think was irrelevant to Pardew and only an excuse so i think it will be very interesting to see how Laudrup copes with it. My guess is these could be in for an early exit and have another decent season or they go far and they have a poor league finish. Regardless of how the likes of Swansea/Southampton want to play/do play and who Norwich have signed, our first 11 is still far superior to there’s and I expect us to finish above all of said clubs with relative ease. How come? Our home form is a huge advantage as we don't lose many, and if Man City game doesn't have a negative affect if we get humped then i can see us start very well and away wins will come with confidence like they did season before last. I look at our team on paper and it excites me. Even if we signed nobody, which does sound a bit daunting, however if we kept our current squad and likes of Cisse/HBA/Cabaye all stayed, the team in terms of quality is still of a very high order. You can look at the other said clubs and point out well he's shit, he's bang average, he's lucky to be playing in the prem....that is far from the case with out starting 11 even as it stands. A good start is crucial, that's most important thing for us, it would take all negativity away from the fans towards JFK/Ashley/Pardew for a little while and it will help players build confidence and forget about last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Dunno, he hasn't spent any of this TV money bounty last time I checked. We haven't received it have we, it's for this coming season? Hasn't stopped Norwich or Sunderland has it ? The notion that billionaires have to wait for money before they spend it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Branko Strupar Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 40% increase in profits. http://www.nufcblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/mike-ashley-strips.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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