Mike Ashley

[Chris_R]

He knew the deal when he signed up and he's perfectly capable of delivering within our expectations.

 

 

I'll tell you now, he's not capable of delivering within my expectations. Ashley's, perhaps, but not mine.

 

And Wullie is spot on about Pardew. He's not a good man manager at all. Keegan was, he'd have players running through walls for him but if they crossed him they'd be out. He got the best from everyone, made them feel 10 feet tall going onto the pitch. We believed we could beat anyone, and because of that we often did.

 

Padew's a coward, he often has us beaten before the game even kicks off. Sure the players like him, but that's because there's no pressure on them and no expectations. I'd much rather we had a good manager the players feared than a weak and cowardly one that they liked.

[LucaAltieri]

He knew the deal when he signed up and he's perfectly capable of delivering within our expectations.

 

 

I'll tell you now, he's not capable of delivering within my expectations. Ashley's, perhaps, but not mine.

 

And Wullie is spot on about Pardew. He's not a good man manager at all. Keegan was, he'd have players running through walls for him but if they crossed him they'd be out. He got the best from everyone, made them feel 10 feet tall going onto the pitch. We believed we could beat anyone, and because of that we often did.

 

Padew's a coward, he often has us beaten before the game even kicks off. Sure the players like him, but that's because there's no pressure on them and no expectations. I'd much rather we had a good manager the players feared than a weak and cowardly one that they liked.

 

Complete conjecture.

 

But if we're looking at the mood of the players. Whether they're performing above or below their potential. We can say that they are definitely lacking in confidence right now - Cisse in particular - and they're not playing as well as they should be. But there have been periods where they have excellent under Pardew and played out of their skins. How much of that is down to the manager (either way) is open to debate.

 

If the players like him and want to play for him... and he likes the board and wants to work with them... can we really ask for more?

 

Here's the question... if Pardew is so bad and holding us back, let's say we sack him tomorrow, who do you want to replace him with and where do you think their Newcastle side would finish?

[Spudil]

You just like stand out by arguing against what you perceive to be the majority opinion, don't you LucaAltieri?

 

You are a special snowflake. You don't need to go through all this trouble to show everyone.

[LucaAltieri]

You just like stand out by arguing against what you perceive to be the majority opinion, don't you LucaAltieri?

 

You are a special snowflake. You don't need to go through all this trouble to show everyone.

 

I argue what I believe to be correct, whether popular or not.

 

If you fancy it you can take a crack at some of the actual points I made too, you know?

[OzzieMandias]

Unless you're a fan of finances, specifically who we owe money to (quite a bit more bothered about football myself) then I can't see how we're any better off. We're far less ambitious, far less prestigious, no more stable and suffer almost constant embarrassment including the ultimate shame of relegation. We were something, now we're nothing.

 

100% this. Our average league position in Ashley's tenure is lower than in the period before he took over. To suggest it isn't debatable if we have made progress is quite frankly laughable. Unfortunately our resident balance sheet fan has given up on trying to explain with arguments his opinions presented as fact.

 

Am interested in who you are referring to and why you say that.

 

Are you for real? I hardly ever see you post about anything other than finances. I like you as a poster, and I certainly value your contribution on those finance topics, as you are obviously knowledgeable about accounting/finance, but passing off some very subjective statements about Ashley as facts that cannot be debated has got my back up a bit. I apologise if an opinion that doesn't tally with your "objective" view of the world offends you.

 

Am for real. Thanks for the stuff about my financial posts, but I am at the end of the day a NUFC football fan believe it or not. This is a forum for opinions and I freely admit I have punted one or two out there tonight. But no one has really knocked back anything I have said. There have been worse Premiership owners than Ashley, our previous regime had reached a point where the 2006 intake of players can hardly be described as ambitious etc. Not offended btw.

 

I think you will find not many people agree with you on those statements, especially the second one. Look, the one thing that Ashley seems to gave sorted is not wasting huge sums of money on players without resale value, and even then, from a footballing perspective financial frugality only benefits us as supporters directly if these savings are invested more wisely in the playing squad, which they currently aren't. Other than that, I struggle to see how we are far better off than before he took over (your words) by any measure. We are worse off in terms of (average) league position, club reputation, non-TV revenue (in absolute terms, but certainly relative to our competitors) and to top it off we have a management structure and personnel that would make many Championship club blush with shame.

 

Without doubt our current management structure is embarrassing, probably worse than that tbh. Your point about the average league position is statistically accurate. But imo we were f*cked in the summer of 2007, I have explained why elsewhere on this forum. And I have (I hope) explained my frustrations with what Ashley is doing and especially the utter rubbish that was the last transfer window. The trouble is if anyone puts anything up on here that doesn't conform to the "Ashley is Satan and anyone who doesn't agree is beyond belief " view you get trashed unfortunately. He is Satan but there are other factors.

 

 

You consistently talk good sense. Don't let the lynch mob grind you down.

[Wullie]

He knew the deal when he signed up and he's perfectly capable of delivering within our expectations.

 

 

I'll tell you now, he's not capable of delivering within my expectations. Ashley's, perhaps, but not mine.

 

And Wullie is spot on about Pardew. He's not a good man manager at all. Keegan was, he'd have players running through walls for him but if they crossed him they'd be out. He got the best from everyone, made them feel 10 feet tall going onto the pitch. We believed we could beat anyone, and because of that we often did.

 

Padew's a coward, he often has us beaten before the game even kicks off. Sure the players like him, but that's because there's no pressure on them and no expectations. I'd much rather we had a good manager the players feared than a weak and cowardly one that they liked.

 

Complete conjecture.

 

But if we're looking at the mood of the players. Whether they're performing above or below their potential. We can say that they are definitely lacking in confidence right now - Cisse in particular - and they're not playing as well as they should be. But there have been periods where they have excellent under Pardew and played out of their skins. How much of that is down to the manager (either way) is open to debate.

 

If the players like him and want to play for him... and he likes the board and wants to work with them... can we really ask for more?

 

Here's the question... if Pardew is so bad and holding us back, let's say we sack him tomorrow, who do you want to replace him with and where do you think their Newcastle side would finish?

 

When have they been "excellent under Pardew and played out of their skins"? When we finished fifth, other than half a dozen games in March/April, the football was fucking stinking.

[Wullie]

 

Ozzie and quayside, six years now living by the same mantra.

 

"Anyone will do, as long as it's not Shepherd"

[merlin]

We also need someone with £200m at the very very least who is just prepared to buy us.

 

I know you said £200m at the very least, but I honestly think it would need to be someone with many times more than that. Buying the club is one thing, you then have to be able to fund it to a higher level than it is now. Someone who can just about buy the club isn't what we need, it needs to be small change to them. An extreme example I know but I really shudder to think where we'd be if Ashley had sold out to Barry Moat - an enthusiastic owner no doubt but that "pieced together" finance package of his was so small time.

 

 

I've said this before but it remains the case - it took a man with millions to get rid of McKeag but it will take a

man with billions to get rid of Ashley.

People like that ARE out there, but they won't deal with Ashley until he is on a weaker wicket, i.e. the club starts struggling either at the turnstiles or on the field. One could follow the other..

Remember, Ashley went to Dubai and played Roulette instead of meeting Mansour...people interested in the club will not have forgotten about that.....

[Vinny Green Balls]

Yes, things could be worse.  That does not mean at all that they should be considered acceptable.  Don't use this stability nonsense either.  Maybe if the game was played on a fucking spreadsheet.  But here's a gentle reminder:

 

1) Hire Keegan, then undermine him with that poison dwarf

2) Replace him with Kinnear.  Yes.  Fucking Kinnear!

3) After that failure, give Shearer 8 games to turn it around.

4) Jettison Hughton unceremoniously.

5) Bring in Pardew.  Yes, you read it correctly.  Fucking Pardew.

6) Sports Direct Stadium, officially making a 120 year old club a vehicle for his business

7) Not bring in anybody after we finished 5th.  A wonderful opportunity blown.

8) Not jettison Pardew when he almost got this team relegated, and a pall seemed to be over everything associated with this club.

9) Bring in Joe Fucking Kinnear!  Again!

10) One loan signing.

 

This fails to really encapsulate the soul-destroying number he's put on this club during his stewardship.  Every time there is a bit of optimism, you know his next action is going to cancel it out.  How could anyone defend the indefensible?  One step removed from defending Alistair Crowley as a decent, misunderstood visionary.

 

The whole mantra "better the devil you know..." is utter bullshit imo.  It leaves no room for any type of growth.  Happy with Mubarak because you never know when a Pol Pot might come along.  Absurd.  Absurd, and let me stress, absurd.

[merlin]

There have been a FEW worse owners than Ashley but only Liverpool's duo of Hicks and Gillett bear real comparison because NUFC and Liverpool are similar clubs in their support, both actual and potential...perhaps Randy Lerner also, because Villa also have decent support potential.

 

In my view, neither Hicks/Gillett or Lerner have been anywhere NEAR as bad as Ashley at running a major football club ; you can punt Ashley's financial stats until you are blue in the face because despite their handling of Liverpool in that respect, they won things and Liverpool was snapped up by a consortium who are now seeing the benefits of their player investment strategy coupled with ambition. Lerner also has, in a lesser way, shown more ambition than Ashley and stuck by Lambert after giving MON enough rope to hang himself, unlike Ashley who bulleted Hughton when the club was mid-table in its first season back in the PL and appointed a manager with a proven record of failure at 3 other clubs.

 

A PL football club is NOT - repeat, NOT - about finances...sensible running of the club, yes(unlike Shepherd) but the product of a successful club is judged by its performances on the field ; in that respect, NUFC is LIGHT YEARS away from its standing in the game even 10 years ago and despite some of the decline being due to Shepherd's decisions, Ashley is the major culprit...

 

Performances on the field - FAIL

Attractiveness of football - FAIL

Commercial performance - FAIL when compared to 15 years ago

Attractiveness of club to Top players - FAIL

Happiness of Fans - FAIL(far less people now interested in having STs)

Status of the club nationally - FAIL(we are a laughing stock)

 

I could go on, but this is the situation - how anyone can say that we shouldn't change owners because we might get a worse one is like saying you shouldn't re-marry after a bitter divorce because you might get a worse partner. Life is a lottery and for every BAD football club owner, there are several good ones ; Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal(yes, even them too)Spurs, Villa, Norwich, Southampton, Swansea etc etc...all have better owners than NUFC because they CARE about their clubs. Ashley doesn't give 2 stuffs and that alone makes him the worst owner in the PL. He may have run a tight ship, but even tight ships needed a dose of fruit to stop the sailors dying.....

 

For me, he's got to go because its no worse than a 50/50 chance we would get a worse owner and probably at least a 60/40 that we would get a better one.

 

Until anyone finally sticks the money down, though, Ashley and the fans are like a married couple who want to divorce but can't because they can't sell the house...mainly because they are asking too much for it..!

[ATB]

[Guest icemanblue]

When he put the £30m loan in after relegation, which went to help us keep the likes of Colo he has since took back £12m of that and left in £18m.

 

That came from Lee at tonights Fansunited meeting when he was answering the questions that were in tonights chronicle

 

Any other interesting bits from that meeting, mate? I'd have thought there would have been more take up from here, considering how many are wanting to 'take action' against Ashley. Anyone else go?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Unless you're a fan of finances, specifically who we owe money to (quite a bit more bothered about football myself) then I can't see how we're any better off. We're far less ambitious, far less prestigious, no more stable and suffer almost constant embarrassment including the ultimate shame of relegation. We were something, now we're nothing.

 

100% this. Our average league position in Ashley's tenure is lower than in the period before he took over. To suggest it isn't debatable if we have made progress is quite frankly laughable. Unfortunately our resident balance sheet fan has given up on trying to explain with arguments his opinions presented as fact.

 

Am interested in who you are referring to and why you say that.

 

Are you for real? I hardly ever see you post about anything other than finances. I like you as a poster, and I certainly value your contribution on those finance topics, as you are obviously knowledgeable about accounting/finance, but passing off some very subjective statements about Ashley as facts that cannot be debated has got my back up a bit. I apologise if an opinion that doesn't tally with your "objective" view of the world offends you.

 

Am for real. Thanks for the stuff about my financial posts, but I am at the end of the day a NUFC football fan believe it or not. This is a forum for opinions and I freely admit I have punted one or two out there tonight. But no one has really knocked back anything I have said. There have been worse Premiership owners than Ashley, our previous regime had reached a point where the 2006 intake of players can hardly be described as ambitious etc. Not offended btw.

 

I think you will find not many people agree with you on those statements, especially the second one. Look, the one thing that Ashley seems to gave sorted is not wasting huge sums of money on players without resale value, and even then, from a footballing perspective financial frugality only benefits us as supporters directly if these savings are invested more wisely in the playing squad, which they currently aren't. Other than that, I struggle to see how we are far better off than before he took over (your words) by any measure. We are worse off in terms of (average) league position, club reputation, non-TV revenue (in absolute terms, but certainly relative to our competitors) and to top it off we have a management structure and personnel that would make many Championship club blush with shame.

 

Without doubt our current management structure is embarrassing, probably worse than that tbh. Your point about the average league position is statistically accurate. But imo we were f*cked in the summer of 2007, I have explained why elsewhere on this forum. And I have (I hope) explained my frustrations with what Ashley is doing and especially the utter rubbish that was the last transfer window. The trouble is if anyone puts anything up on here that doesn't conform to the "Ashley is Satan and anyone who doesn't agree is beyond belief " view you get trashed unfortunately. He is Satan but there are other factors.

 

 

You consistently talk good sense. Don't let the lynch mob grind you down.

 

[Lotus]

Not quite understanding the glorious point that Ozzie seems to think he's highlighting out of Quayside's analysis that we all seem to be missing.

 

We all know the finances looked unsustainable under the last regime towards the end. WE ALL KNOW THAT.

 

Quayside then goes on to say that our current management structure is worse than embarrassing and that, and this is ENTIRELY factual, we have a worse average league position under Ashley than the Halls.

 

 

[Unbelievable]

Lynch mob..

 

I'm genuinely intrigued what arguments quayside, Ozzie et al have for saying we are far better off since Ashley took over. They seem to be notably missing in the discussion..?

[Lotus]

Lynch mob..

 

I'm genuinely intrigued what arguments quayside, Ozzie et al have for saying we are far better off since Ashley took over. They seem to be notably missing in the discussion..?

 

The arguement is that our debt is now manageable.

 

What i'd be interested in knowing is what state we'd be in if our debt was still to banks/financial institutions. Has Mashley improved the financial running of the club to the extent that, comparing apples with apples, our balance sheet would we significantly improved.

 

Because, if all he's done is make the debt attributable to himself and therefore reduce the interest payments but has not in anyway improved our means of increasing revenues i'd say his financial management hasn't been as magnificent as prothletised. He's no Daniel Levy

[BottledDog]

Daniel Levy is the one true God.

[Hanshithispantz]

We've been relegated once, were inches away from being relegated again last season, and in failing to strengthen our squad we'll be in danger of it again should our luck with injuries continue the way it has been. Ashley's doing just fine.

[quayside]

Lynch mob..

 

I'm genuinely intrigued what arguments quayside, Ozzie et al have for saying we are far better off since Ashley took over. They seem to be notably missing in the discussion..?

 

The arguement is that our debt is now manageable.

 

What i'd be interested in knowing is what state we'd be in if our debt was still to banks/financial institutions. Has Mashley improved the financial running of the club to the extent that, comparing apples with apples, our balance sheet would we significantly improved.

 

Because, if all he's done is make the debt attributable to himself and therefore reduce the interest payments but has not in anyway improved our means of increasing revenues i'd say his financial management hasn't been as magnificent as prothletised. He's no Daniel Levy

 

Yes the point about the debt being manageable is partly it, and quite simply that it is owed to the owner of the club rather than a bank who could foreclose. The club lost £45 million in Shepherd's final two years so your question about what would have happened if the debt remained in the hands of a bank is an interesting one. Contrary to popular belief the bulk of the debt owed to the bank was not a mortgage on the stadium, it was secured on season ticket sales. The credit crunch was just around the corner, when banks got the sh*ts about lending money to any businesse, let alone one racking up huge losses.

 

I also believe the squad in 2007 contained too many overrpaid underperforming players (eg Duff, Luque, Owen, Butt). After allowing Allardyce (who is another thing Ashley inherited) to carry on pretty much the same way the player buying policy changed causing a lot of pain along the way. But, until the arrival of JFK, I think that the new policy had become more efficient. I can't pretend that I know what our policy on player buying is right now, if we have one. I think there was a will to bring players in this summer but JFK cocked it up. Not everyone will agree with that.

 

I am well aware of what Ashley has done wrong and continues to do wrong, I honestly don't think I have tried to defend that, and in fact I couldn't if I tried. This all sprang out of a fairly simple observation on here that if Ashley sells up there is no guarantee it would be to someone better. 

 

And you are correct Daniel Levy is streets ahead of our owner.

[hoppaz]

Wow people seem upset. Myself I hate Ashley but I balance it with with a range of facts. We are 3 quality players away from being a good side on paper aside from the manager.

 

We need three quality players and a new manager to be a good side on paper? And that's a good thing?

 

Well considering most teams could do with an extra player or two I think we could be worse off. On paper I meant we could be a top 6 or 7 team which is realistic imo.

 

The manager has been tanked many times but also gave us the 4-4 Arsenal comeback, the Chelski drubbing and games where we played Man United off the park.

 

Back on the subject of Mike, the one thing I am grateful to him for was buying us when he did as we could have ended up like Rangers, Leeds or a Coventry otherwise.

[merlin]

Wow people seem upset. Myself I hate Ashley but I balance it with with a range of facts. We are 3 quality players away from being a good side on paper aside from the manager.

 

We need three quality players and a new manager to be a good side on paper? And that's a good thing?

 

Well considering most teams could do with an extra player or two I think we could be worse off. On paper I meant we could be a top 6 or 7 team which is realistic imo.

 

The manager has been tanked many times but also gave us the 4-4 Arsenal comeback, the Chelski drubbing and games where we played Man United off the park.

 

Back on the subject of Mike, the one thing I am grateful to him for was buying us when he did as we could have ended up like Rangers, Leeds or a Coventry otherwise.

 

Pathetic - if most of the fans are like you, they deserve the crap set up they have now.

 

Grateful..!!! Grow a pair.

[Rosenrot]

Grateful? 

[hoppaz]

Wow people seem upset. Myself I hate Ashley but I balance it with with a range of facts. We are 3 quality players away from being a good side on paper aside from the manager.

 

We need three quality players and a new manager to be a good side on paper? And that's a good thing?

 

Well considering most teams could do with an extra player or two I think we could be worse off. On paper I meant we could be a top 6 or 7 team which is realistic imo.

 

The manager has been tanked many times but also gave us the 4-4 Arsenal comeback, the Chelski drubbing and games where we played Man United off the park.

 

Back on the subject of Mike, the one thing I am grateful to him for was buying us when he did as we could have ended up like Rangers, Leeds or a Coventry otherwise.

 

Pathetic - if most of the fans are like you, they deserve the crap set up they have now.

 

Grateful..!!! Grow a pair.

 

Why not? Would you like to be a fan of Leeds, Rangers or Coventry at the moment?

[Lotus]

Quayside.

 

I haven't said you are defending Ashley's idiocy. Ozzie quoting your posts to defend it though so it was directed at him.

 

Things got out of shape under the Halls.

 

Things are not going well under Ashley.

 

I'd like to revisit a question i raised. I assume most clubs have their debt held by banks/financial insitutions (clearly not Chelsea and Mancity). If our debt was placed similarly to those other clubs. Would we be in good shape financially? Would we be in profit as we are now? Because, if not then the obvious conclusion is that Ashley is not running the club optimally. Or even close to it. All he would have done would be to shield the club from that kind of exposure but not set any means in place whereby it could operate free of him.

[TRon]

I think it's pretty clear we have an owner that isn't really committed to making Newcastle United the club it should be by rights and is effectively running it on a skeleton crew. But when comparing other club owners favourably, please don't mention Gillett and Hicks of Liverpool. They were mis-managed so badly they were effectively up shit creek without a paddle with a mounting debt racked up against Liverpool FC rather than the owners themselves. Their fans were protesting and they only got out of that because the club was sold over their heads by the bank to another buyer. If there hadn't been another buyer what then?