Acquisitions - moving in the right direction.

[Interpolic]

Community Shield runners up ffs.

 

It was known as the Charity Shield in 1996!

 

What a horrible day that was. Got absolutely fucking battered, Man United fans were graceless cunts, it pissed it down as soon as the game ended, it took 4000 days to get home. My first trip to the dump that was/is Wembley.

 

I remember that it was one of the minor things that made the 5-0 special at the time, the fact that we'd been humped 4-0 months earlier and bettered that result in a more meaningful game.  Because the 4-0 did hurt like, they pissed all over us.

[Disco]

Community Shield runners up ffs.

 

It was known as the Charity Shield in 1996!

 

What a horrible day that was. Got absolutely fucking battered, Man United fans were graceless cunts, it pissed it down as soon as the game ended, it took 4000 days to get home. My first trip to the dump that was/is Wembley.

 

I remember that it was one of the minor things that made the 5-0 special at the time, the fact that we'd been humped 4-0 months earlier and bettered that result in a more meaningful game.  Because the 4-0 did hurt like, they pissed all over us.

 

It did, probably wasn't the worst thing to happen to us in the end but it was crushing on my first experience of Wembley, although it prepared me our other trips that followed that were equally as shit.

[Guest BooBoo]

Community Shield runners up ffs.

 

It was known as the Charity Shield in 1996!

 

What a horrible day that was. Got absolutely fucking battered, Man United fans were graceless cunts, it pissed it down as soon as the game ended, it took 4000 days to get home. My first trip to the dump that was/is Wembley.

 

Pretty much same here. We were fucking atrocious and it absolutely pissed it down afterwards soaking everyone to the skin. Trip was canny but we were stuck in a very uncomfortable mini bus for ten hours which was hardly ideal. Old Wembley was an absolute dump.

[quayside]

It was an interesting OP, it would be good to hear from some of the more rabid Ashley haters on whether they think there has been a move in the right direction.

 

I actually think that the change in strategy with transfers was not so much to do with Xisco but came from what Ashley thought of some of the dross that Allardyce brought into the club. The first attempts to do it better and differently were fairly disastrous in terms of where it took the club in the season Keegan left, but I do think it was Allardyce that sparked the strategy change.

[Disco]

It was an interesting OP, it would be good to hear from some of the more rabid Ashley haters on whether they think there has been a move in the right direction.

 

I actually think that the change in strategy with transfers was not so much to with Xisco but came from what Ashley thought of some of the dross that Allardyce brought into the club. The first attempts to do it better and differently were fairly disastrous in terms of where it took the club in the season Keegan left, but I do think it was at Allardyce that sparked the strategy change.

 

Totally agree. It was the likes of being lumbered with what was left from earlier managers Smith, Geremi, etc that we couldn't/struggled to shift in the Championship who had no value and were on ridiculous wages but it didn't take a rocket scientist to tell us not to buy shit players.

[Guest BooBoo]

It was so obvious that the dying days of the Shepherd era were choking the club. Too many over the hill wasters on massive wages and no motivation. Ashley did have the right idea in re-assessing the transfer policy but to throw such a hopelessly imbalanced and conflicting group of KK/Wise/Jiminez together was hopelessly naive.

 

Whatever anyone thinks of Ashley/Llambias/Pards at least they are all pulling in the same direction and that can only help stabilise the club.

[Mr Logic]

Interesting thread Stu. A bit of perspective many wouldn't have fully appreciated (and I include myself) until presented with it.

[Cajun]

It's not just signing good players, it's the way they have settled quickly too

[Stu]

It was an interesting OP, it would be good to hear from some of the more rabid Ashley haters on whether they think there has been a move in the right direction.

 

I actually think that the change in strategy with transfers was not so much to with Xisco but came from what Ashley thought of some of the dross that Allardyce brought into the club. The first attempts to do it better and differently were fairly disastrous in terms of where it took the club in the season Keegan left, but I do think it was at Allardyce that sparked the strategy change.

 

Totally agree. It was the likes of being lumbered with what was left from earlier managers Smith, Geremi, etc that we couldn't/struggled to shift in the Championship who had no value and were on ridiculous wages but it didn't take a rocket scientist to tell us not to buy shit players.

 

wouldn't disagree with either of these, I think once Mort had overseen the in-depth review of the finances they realised that the 'competitive wages' Allardyce had requested in order to attract these 'established' players were unsustainable. Throw in the fact that they weren't even doing it on the pitch and the football was the very definition of dull (Man City away IIRC?) and the new strategy was being swiftly put into place.

 

Think they also looked at player turnover and the costs involved in selling/buying such a high % of the first team squad whenever a new manager had been brought in. Remember thinking at the time of Wise's appointment that they were trying to go down the route of a 'coach' to train and pick the players that the 'DoF' figure identified for transfer.

 

Might have been a half-decent strategy but only if they didn't balls up the personnel involved that then led to the 12months of freebies and loans while they sorted out the wage structure and identified suitable targets.

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

It was an interesting OP, it would be good to hear from some of the more rabid Ashley haters on whether they think there has been a move in the right direction.

 

I actually think that the change in strategy with transfers was not so much to with Xisco but came from what Ashley thought of some of the dross that Allardyce brought into the club. The first attempts to do it better and differently were fairly disastrous in terms of where it took the club in the season Keegan left, but I do think it was at Allardyce that sparked the strategy change.

 

Totally agree. It was the likes of being lumbered with what was left from earlier managers Smith, Geremi, etc that we couldn't/struggled to shift in the Championship who had no value and were on ridiculous wages but it didn't take a rocket scientist to tell us not to buy s*** players.

 

wouldn't disagree with either of these, I think once Mort had overseen the in-depth review of the finances they realised that the 'competitive wages' Allardyce had requested in order to attract these 'established' players were unsustainable. Throw in the fact that they weren't even doing it on the pitch and the football was the very definition of dull (Man City away IIRC?) and the new strategy was being swiftly put into place.

 

Think they also looked at player turnover and the costs involved in selling/buying such a high % of the first team squad whenever a new manager had been brought in. Remember thinking at the time of Wise's appointment that they were trying to go down the route of a 'coach' to train and pick the players that the 'DoF' figure identified for transfer.

 

Might have been a half-decent strategy but only if they didn't balls up the personnel involved that then led to the 12months of freebies and loans while they sorted out the wage structure and identified suitable targets.

 

Like Disco said, buying players that aren't s*** isn't rocket science and the strategy of having a lower wage bill and lower costs due to turnover is Ashley's wet dream. I think we've been very lucky in the improvement we've seen and the main priority was saving money for Ashley, hardly makes him a good person for the club. The players that are established in the team and are pushing us forward were nothing to do with his transfer policy and were the result of scouting he had nowt to do with and it could quite have easily gone a different way for us and the new players in these few games, we wouldn't have this thread if that was the case.

I still think the comparison in those '2 halves' is ridiculous, the time scale difference is beyond f***ing massive. Even if it all works out at the end of the season it's hardly that black and white (no pun). It's the guy's f***ing mindset and intentions that are the bone of contention and ultimately all that matters as long as he is our owner.

[CaliMag]

It's not just signing good players, it's the way they have settled quickly too

 

That is a good point. I would suppose there has been a significant shift in how players are "settled in."

 

Souness, Allardyce and JFK - you had the sense they did not even think about how "Johnny Foreigner" would feel coming to Newcastle.

 

On the old Communicata NUFC Forum there was a poster who claimed that he worked at a sports shop during Dalgleish's reign and when we signed Temuri Ketsbaia he went there to buy new boots, training gear, etc. because that's how it was done in Greece and Georgia (players were resopnsible for their own crap). He didn't know the town or any of the expectations they would have of him. He had a clerk explain to him that the club would probably buy him new gear, but Ketsy either didn't understand in his broken english or didn't believe him. The short of it was Ketsy was on his own from the day he gto here and had to adjust with no help from the club. He returned some time later (by himself) to return all of the gear he bought.

[Stu]

Like Disco said, buying players that aren't s*** isn't rocket science and the strategy of having a lower wage bill and lower costs due to turnover is Ashley's wet dream. I think we've been very lucky in the improvement we've seen and the main priority was saving money for Ashley, hardly makes him a good person for the club. The players that are established in the team and are pushing us forward were nothing to do with his transfer policy and were the result of scouting he had nowt to do with and it could quite have easily gone a different way for us and the new players in these few games, we wouldn't have this thread if that was the case.

I still think the comparison in those '2 halves' is ridiculous, the time scale difference is beyond f***ing massive. Even if it all works out at the end of the season it's hardly that black and white (no pun). It's the guy's f***ing mindset and intentions that are the bone of contention and ultimately all that matters as long as he is our owner.

 

I think you might have missed the point I made in the OP:

 

...this touches upon another point, when you say no-one knew how Cabaye (insert name of another NUFC signing in the past 12 months) would turn out. It would appear that Mr Carr (and by default, the powers that be at the club) are actively signing players that they feel have the right mental attributes to be a success at NUFC (in addition to having the right physical and technical attributes).

 

You can only connect the dots looking backwards, but of the signings made in the past year or so compare much more favourably than our previous transfer history.

 

Not quite sure if that was an oversight on your part or if you chose to ignore it. When you say that "not buying shit players isn't rocket science" - why did we persist in doing it for 6 years+? Why do other Premiership teams continue to struggle by doing it (e.g. Sunderland this summer: Brown, O'Shea, etc., Liverpool last summer: Konchesky, Poulsen, etc.)??

[Guest BooBoo]

Really can't recall which foreign flop it was (might have been Maric) but I remember an interview after the said player had left saying the club had done nothing to help him settle other than telling him which house to rent.

[CaliMag]

Really can't recall which foreign flop it was (might have been Maric) but I remember an interview after the said player had left saying the club had done nothing to help him settle other than telling him which house to rent.

 

I remember something along those lines as well. Apparently during Gullit and Dalglish that was standard operating procedure. When SBR got here he noticed the payers didn't eat together and hardly even knew eachother.

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

Like Disco said, buying players that aren't s*** isn't rocket science and the strategy of having a lower wage bill and lower costs due to turnover is Ashley's wet dream. I think we've been very lucky in the improvement we've seen and the main priority was saving money for Ashley, hardly makes him a good person for the club. The players that are established in the team and are pushing us forward were nothing to do with his transfer policy and were the result of scouting he had nowt to do with and it could quite have easily gone a different way for us and the new players in these few games, we wouldn't have this thread if that was the case.

I still think the comparison in those '2 halves' is ridiculous, the time scale difference is beyond f***ing massive. Even if it all works out at the end of the season it's hardly that black and white (no pun). It's the guy's f***ing mindset and intentions that are the bone of contention and ultimately all that matters as long as he is our owner.

 

I think you might have missed the point I made in the OP:

 

 

Not sure I have. Even if I'm adding something to it, I think it's a bit of a pointless post without those additions. You've said that it "Definitely looks like the new owners have become more and more successful in identifying players who 'turn out' OK or better" under this 'new transfer policy' which, really, only came fully in to effect this summer, yet like I said, the likes of Gutierrez, Colo, Ben Arfa weren't bought under 'this policy. You could even argue that the likes of Simpson, Williamson, Routledge and Best were not purchased under this policy. Yes they were cheap but probably the best in those positions we could have hoped for at the time we bought them.

All in all you're making a comparison between 2 apparent transfer policies that contain so much more than you are claiming. To clump those 2 lists together like that is just a bit silly. This summer is an Ashley gamble that is paying off 7 games in to a season, contrasted to the several other gambles he has made that certainly have not. To jump up and shout 'he's got it!" now is a bit of a gamble itself, going on the guy's track record. 7 games in and it sounds like this new policy is being hailed as a stroke of genius almost. Its cynical, but he was very lucky to nab well known good players like Cabaye, Marveux and Santon on the cheap.

[madras]

Like Disco said, buying players that aren't s*** isn't rocket science and the strategy of having a lower wage bill and lower costs due to turnover is Ashley's wet dream. I think we've been very lucky in the improvement we've seen and the main priority was saving money for Ashley, hardly makes him a good person for the club. The players that are established in the team and are pushing us forward were nothing to do with his transfer policy and were the result of scouting he had nowt to do with and it could quite have easily gone a different way for us and the new players in these few games, we wouldn't have this thread if that was the case.

I still think the comparison in those '2 halves' is ridiculous, the time scale difference is beyond f***ing massive. Even if it all works out at the end of the season it's hardly that black and white (no pun). It's the guy's f***ing mindset and intentions that are the bone of contention and ultimately all that matters as long as he is our owner.

 

I think you might have missed the point I made in the OP:

 

 

Not sure I have. Even if I'm adding something to it, I think it's a bit of a pointless post without those additions. You've said that it "Definitely looks like the new owners have become more and more successful in identifying players who 'turn out' OK or better" under this 'new transfer policy' which, really, only came fully in to effect this summer, yet like I said, the likes of Gutierrez, Colo, Ben Arfa weren't bought under 'this policy. You could even argue that the likes of Simpson, Williamson, Routledge and Best were not purchased under this policy. Yes they were cheap but probably the best in those positions we could have hoped for at the time we bought them.

All in all you're making a comparison between 2 apparent transfer policies that contain so much more than you are claiming. To clump those 2 lists together like that is just a bit silly. This summer is an Ashley gamble that is paying off, contrasted to the several other gambles he has made that certainly have not. To jump up and shout 'he's got it!" now is a bit of a gamble itself, going on the guy's track record. 7 games in and it sounds like this new policy is being hailed as a stroke of genius almost. Its cynical, but he was very lucky to nab well known good players like Cabaye, Marveux and Santon on the cheap.

does that mean clubs likie man utd and real madrid are lucky in that other clubs realise that when they come sniffing round their players they'll naturally want to go so have a mega bargaining tool to start with........or maybe we were in the same market as everyone else  and we were better at getting those players and luck had very little to do with it ?

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

Like Disco said, buying players that aren't s*** isn't rocket science and the strategy of having a lower wage bill and lower costs due to turnover is Ashley's wet dream. I think we've been very lucky in the improvement we've seen and the main priority was saving money for Ashley, hardly makes him a good person for the club. The players that are established in the team and are pushing us forward were nothing to do with his transfer policy and were the result of scouting he had nowt to do with and it could quite have easily gone a different way for us and the new players in these few games, we wouldn't have this thread if that was the case.

I still think the comparison in those '2 halves' is ridiculous, the time scale difference is beyond f***ing massive. Even if it all works out at the end of the season it's hardly that black and white (no pun). It's the guy's f***ing mindset and intentions that are the bone of contention and ultimately all that matters as long as he is our owner.

 

I think you might have missed the point I made in the OP:

 

 

Not sure I have. Even if I'm adding something to it, I think it's a bit of a pointless post without those additions. You've said that it "Definitely looks like the new owners have become more and more successful in identifying players who 'turn out' OK or better" under this 'new transfer policy' which, really, only came fully in to effect this summer, yet like I said, the likes of Gutierrez, Colo, Ben Arfa weren't bought under 'this policy. You could even argue that the likes of Simpson, Williamson, Routledge and Best were not purchased under this policy. Yes they were cheap but probably the best in those positions we could have hoped for at the time we bought them.

All in all you're making a comparison between 2 apparent transfer policies that contain so much more than you are claiming. To clump those 2 lists together like that is just a bit silly. This summer is an Ashley gamble that is paying off, contrasted to the several other gambles he has made that certainly have not. To jump up and shout 'he's got it!" now is a bit of a gamble itself, going on the guy's track record. 7 games in and it sounds like this new policy is being hailed as a stroke of genius almost. Its cynical, but he was very lucky to nab well known good players like Cabaye, Marveux and Santon on the cheap.

does that mean clubs likie man utd and real madrid are lucky in that other clubs realise that when they come sniffing round their players they'll naturally want to go so have a mega bargaining tool to start with........or maybe we were in the same market as everyone else  and we were better at getting those players and luck had very little to do with it ?

 

No, because if teams like Man Utd or Real couldn't identify those quality players for cheap they will spend more to acquire a good enough player. Ashley wouldn't, that's my point.

[madras]

Like Disco said, buying players that aren't s*** isn't rocket science and the strategy of having a lower wage bill and lower costs due to turnover is Ashley's wet dream. I think we've been very lucky in the improvement we've seen and the main priority was saving money for Ashley, hardly makes him a good person for the club. The players that are established in the team and are pushing us forward were nothing to do with his transfer policy and were the result of scouting he had nowt to do with and it could quite have easily gone a different way for us and the new players in these few games, we wouldn't have this thread if that was the case.

I still think the comparison in those '2 halves' is ridiculous, the time scale difference is beyond f***ing massive. Even if it all works out at the end of the season it's hardly that black and white (no pun). It's the guy's f***ing mindset and intentions that are the bone of contention and ultimately all that matters as long as he is our owner.

 

I think you might have missed the point I made in the OP:

 

 

Not sure I have. Even if I'm adding something to it, I think it's a bit of a pointless post without those additions. You've said that it "Definitely looks like the new owners have become more and more successful in identifying players who 'turn out' OK or better" under this 'new transfer policy' which, really, only came fully in to effect this summer, yet like I said, the likes of Gutierrez, Colo, Ben Arfa weren't bought under 'this policy. You could even argue that the likes of Simpson, Williamson, Routledge and Best were not purchased under this policy. Yes they were cheap but probably the best in those positions we could have hoped for at the time we bought them.

All in all you're making a comparison between 2 apparent transfer policies that contain so much more than you are claiming. To clump those 2 lists together like that is just a bit silly. This summer is an Ashley gamble that is paying off, contrasted to the several other gambles he has made that certainly have not. To jump up and shout 'he's got it!" now is a bit of a gamble itself, going on the guy's track record. 7 games in and it sounds like this new policy is being hailed as a stroke of genius almost. Its cynical, but he was very lucky to nab well known good players like Cabaye, Marveux and Santon on the cheap.

does that mean clubs likie man utd and real madrid are lucky in that other clubs realise that when they come sniffing round their players they'll naturally want to go so have a mega bargaining tool to start with........or maybe we were in the same market as everyone else  and we were better at getting those players and luck had very little to do with it ?

 

No, because if teams like Man Utd or Real couldn't identify those quality players for cheap they will spend more to ascertain a good enough player. Ashley wouldn't, that's my point.

but they have took many players on the cheap, and worse they have took many youth players purely by bullying because of who they are. they use their strengths, we are finding a one to use, why knock it ?

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

Like Disco said, buying players that aren't s*** isn't rocket science and the strategy of having a lower wage bill and lower costs due to turnover is Ashley's wet dream. I think we've been very lucky in the improvement we've seen and the main priority was saving money for Ashley, hardly makes him a good person for the club. The players that are established in the team and are pushing us forward were nothing to do with his transfer policy and were the result of scouting he had nowt to do with and it could quite have easily gone a different way for us and the new players in these few games, we wouldn't have this thread if that was the case.

I still think the comparison in those '2 halves' is ridiculous, the time scale difference is beyond f***ing massive. Even if it all works out at the end of the season it's hardly that black and white (no pun). It's the guy's f***ing mindset and intentions that are the bone of contention and ultimately all that matters as long as he is our owner.

 

I think you might have missed the point I made in the OP:

 

 

Not sure I have. Even if I'm adding something to it, I think it's a bit of a pointless post without those additions. You've said that it "Definitely looks like the new owners have become more and more successful in identifying players who 'turn out' OK or better" under this 'new transfer policy' which, really, only came fully in to effect this summer, yet like I said, the likes of Gutierrez, Colo, Ben Arfa weren't bought under 'this policy. You could even argue that the likes of Simpson, Williamson, Routledge and Best were not purchased under this policy. Yes they were cheap but probably the best in those positions we could have hoped for at the time we bought them.

All in all you're making a comparison between 2 apparent transfer policies that contain so much more than you are claiming. To clump those 2 lists together like that is just a bit silly. This summer is an Ashley gamble that is paying off, contrasted to the several other gambles he has made that certainly have not. To jump up and shout 'he's got it!" now is a bit of a gamble itself, going on the guy's track record. 7 games in and it sounds like this new policy is being hailed as a stroke of genius almost. Its cynical, but he was very lucky to nab well known good players like Cabaye, Marveux and Santon on the cheap.

does that mean clubs likie man utd and real madrid are lucky in that other clubs realise that when they come sniffing round their players they'll naturally want to go so have a mega bargaining tool to start with........or maybe we were in the same market as everyone else  and we were better at getting those players and luck had very little to do with it ?

 

No, because if teams like Man Utd or Real couldn't identify those quality players for cheap they will spend more to ascertain a good enough player. Ashley wouldn't, that's my point.

but they have took many players on the cheap, and worse they have took many youth players purely by bullying because of who they are. they use their strengths, we are finding a one to use, why knock it ?

 

I'm not knocking it, I just don't think you can praise it yet. I'm sure people thought signings like Owen were a great idea 3 months after we had bought him.

[ponsaelius]

Calling our signings this summer 'lucky' is ludicrous. In the hysteria of a transfer window there's always a number of bargains that slip under the radar and seemingly we've had the nouse to pluck a few of them. As much as people would like to discredit anything the club does, this is the result of good planning and business sense. Hopefully we'll continue in this manner and keep building rather than taking more steps back by selling what we've got.

 

Of course it could have been a better window and we are still players short, but to say it was just lucky is ridiculous IMO.

 

This is the way I've wanted us to go about business for years. Many English clubs outside the elite are excruciatingly myopic when it comes to transfer policy.

 

[Stu]

You've said that it "Definitely looks like the new owners have become more and more successful in identifying players who 'turn out' OK or better" under this 'new transfer policy' which, really, only came fully in to effect this summer, yet like I said, the likes of Gutierrez, Colo, Ben Arfa weren't bought under 'this policy. You could even argue that the likes of Simpson, Williamson, Routledge and Best were not purchased under this policy. Yes they were cheap but probably the best in those positions we could have hoped for at the time we bought them.

All in all you're making a comparison between 2 apparent transfer policies that contain so much more than you are claiming. To clump those 2 lists together like that is just a bit silly. This summer is an Ashley gamble that is paying off 7 games in to a season, contrasted to the several other gambles he has made that certainly have not. To jump up and shout 'he's got it!" now is a bit of a gamble itself, going on the guy's track record. 7 games in and it sounds like this new policy is being hailed as a stroke of genius almost. Its cynical, but he was very lucky to nab well known good players like Cabaye, Marveux and Santon on the cheap.

 

It's quite obvious that I am talking about the shift in direction post Xisco/Keegan. Look at the signings last summer under the same constraints as this season:

- young players with lots of potential (readas: re-sale value if they don't work out, profit when they do work out)

- clause in their contract/issue at their current club/from a market where our wage structure looks like a good deal (i.e. Holland, France)

- mentally capable or suited to the Premiership and life in Newcastle

 

Last year it was Ben Arfa and Tiote, this year Cabaye and Ba.

 

I point out in the OP that you can only connect the dots looking backwards, so of course we have more to judge the older transfers on, this doesn't make the observation pointless

[Stu]

I'm not knocking it, I just don't think you can praise it yet. I'm sure people thought signings like Owen were a great idea 3 months after we had bought him.

 

Like it's been pointed out, this summer isn't the first instance of the new transfer policy coming into effect (see the link in the OP for further details).

 

You're just ranting against a straw man.

[Guest BooBoo]

Agreed Sewelly.

 

It's the same with some saying that Pardew is due little credit for our start as we now have better players so thats the only reason we are now doing better. If only it was as easy as that!

 

Criticism is deserved at times but so is praise.

 

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

Well, it all depends on the very reason we bought those players and if we would have bought similar quality had they not been available. Ashley decides he wants to be very tight with the purse strings and we have a scout at the club who seems to be very good at spotting good players. After so many avenues he found going the wrong way, he turns to Carr and frugality to save money and bring in players under that can hopefully perform to see if that would work. If not we'd have been absolutely fucking livid. Like I said, for me at the minute it is another gamble he is taking. The more tennis balls you throw at a fucking coconut the better chance you have of winning one. If it turns out okay then fan fucking tastic. If it improves us enough and he fucks off then great, if it improves us enough and continues in the same vein he can stay as long as he is doing so.

Luck doesn't even exist I suppose, but if you win on a long bet you'd consider yourself lucky. His 100 -1 horse is ahead after the second hedge at the moment. After all the other trucks he's thrown his money at I'm not going to listen to any of his tips just yet.

[Cajun]

Agreed Sewelly.

 

It's the same with some saying that Pardew is due little credit for our start as we now have better players so thats the only reason we are now doing better. If only it was as easy as that!

 

Criticism is deserved at times but so is praise.

 

 

Spot on, sometimes feel like a leper if you dare suggest some good might have been done. It's a lot worse elsewhere though tbh.