Dogawful Officiating - Dave Coote suspended

[Kid Icarus]

It's rare that rules come in without widespread approval, even if it's delayed, let alone with widespread incredulity. 

 

Offside, the back pass rule, 3 points for a win, more than 1 sub on the bench, goal line technology. All of them came in to solve problems and solved them. 

 

Things like sin bins and adding more layers to VAR are just pure horsing around with problems that don't really exist and doubling down on something that fans increasingly hate about football, it's not progress for anyone other than advertisers and infinite growth marketing dead-enders. 

[mighty__mag]

1 hour ago, joeyt said:

 

 

 

 

Guaranteed if they were fined 1k plus their bonuses for an obvious wrong call, they'd 99.9% wouldn't be getting those decisions wrong.

 

 

[Froggy]

1 minute ago, mighty__mag said:

Guaranteed if they were fined 1k plus their bonuses for an obvious wrong call, they'd 99.9% wouldn't be getting those decisions wrong.

 

But who decides that something is an obvious wrong call? The way the rules are worded, even last nights horrendous call could be explained away by referees. 

[Displayname]

5 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

But who decides that something is an obvious wrong call? The way the rules are worded, even last nights horrendous call could be explained away by referees. 

Competent refs decides that. If we cant have that then fuck off with VAR.

[mighty__mag]

7 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

But who decides that something is an obvious wrong call? The way the rules are worded, even last nights horrendous call could be explained away by referees. 

 

Well they've decided he's been dropped, was it a wrong call Froggy? Be honest pal, 

 

Should be reviewed and a panel decide, I know there will be opinions and those that protect refs, because they have a tough job etc, but, they now have more at their disposal than ever before and still cock it up. Just feel that fines apply to every other part of the game except these lot, and the refs and var cause the most pain.

 

Players/managers/clubs/fans/ everywhere else there's punishment or fines for wrong doing. 

 

Refs there's nothing but a demotion for a game or two.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by mighty__mag

[Abacus]

Perhaps every match should have a second VAR to review the decisions of the first VAR.

 

Only if that goes wrong should we consider introducing a third VAR.

[Froggy]

Just now, mighty__mag said:

Well they've decided he's been dropped, was it a wrong call Froggy? Be honest pal, 

 

Oh it was a terrible decision in my opinion. I'm just saying people can have different interpretations of what aren't concrete black and white rules. There's even Newcastle fans on this forum who have stated that it could be the right decision.

 

2 minutes ago, Displayname said:

Competent refs decides that. If we cant have that then fuck off with VAR.

 

That referee last night is considered as one of the best of his generation. Herein lies the problem.

[Beren]

If you're a rubbish team, there's a good argument that there's more value in shooting at defender's arms than at the goal  Hit three arms a game you're likely to get at least one pen out of it.

[Unlucky Luque]

I'm only half serious, but relief at the goal standing replacing euphoria of a goal being scored is killing the "product".

[Displayname]

Just now, Froggy said:

 

Oh it was a terrible decision in my opinion. I'm just saying people can have different interpretations of what aren't concrete black and white rules. There's even Newcastle fans on this forum who have stated that it could be the right decision.

 

 

That referee last night is considered as one of the best of his generation. Herein lies the problem.

Dont have that much of a problem with the ref. When he gets called over he is getting put under a tremendous pressure to overturn the decision, especially when it is for the home team.

[Froggy]

1 minute ago, Unlucky Luque said:

I'm only half serious, but relief at the goal standing replacing euphoria of a goal being scored is killing the "product".

 

Don't think you'll find anyone who will argue with you. The Garnacho goal against Arsenal being ruled out completely bummed me out and I don't think I've properly celebrated a goal since.

[Froggy]

1 minute ago, Displayname said:

Dont have that much of a problem with the ref. When he gets called over he is getting put under a tremendous pressure to overturn the decision, especially when it is for the home team.

 

Aye, but in my opinion the best referees shouldn't give two shits what his assistants or the home crowd feel. It's their job to make the right decision regardless of what might come their way after.

 

As if Pierluigi Collina would be pressurised into making the wrong decision after looking at a monitor.

[mighty__mag]

4 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Oh it was a terrible decision in my opinion. I'm just saying people can have different interpretations of what aren't concrete black and white rules. There's even Newcastle fans on this forum who have stated that it could be the right decision. 

 

There's not pal, new sign ups and wum accounts don't count. 

 

It was a dreadful decision, and one I'd love to see trigger fines if proven incompetent from audio advising a wrong call, if audio reveals uncertainty, then it should still be regarded as no pen because its not clear obvious, or conclusive. 

 

If audio revealed the party saying it should categorically be awarded, then when reviewed/scrutinised, its revealed its the wrong call, fine the ref for being a useless twat, or otherwise corrupt fucker, or simply incompetent. 

 

 

[pubteam]

13 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Oh it was a terrible decision in my opinion. I'm just saying people can have different interpretations of what aren't concrete black and white rules. There's even Newcastle fans on this forum who have stated that it could be the right decision.

 

 

That referee last night is considered as one of the best of his generation. Herein lies the problem.

He had the opportunity to rise to god like status as a ref by sticking to his original decision.

[Sima]

16 minutes ago, Unlucky Luque said:

I'm only half serious, but relief at the goal standing replacing euphoria of a goal being scored is killing the "product".

 

Agree.  The first instinct of celebrating a goal is "lightning in a bottle" stuff.  You can't recreate that 30-60 seconds later.

Used to be a quick glance over to the linesman to see if the flag isn't up and you were golden.

[Unlucky Luque]

Everyone associates football with the explosive celebration of a goal. Every advert, every promo. People are hugging and cheering and chucking beer everywhere.

How the fuck will they market this shit in the future?

[Unbelievable]

18 minutes ago, mighty__mag said:

 

There's not pal, new sign ups and wum accounts don't count. 

 

It was a dreadful decision, and one I'd love to see trigger fines if proven incompetent from audio advising a wrong call, if audio reveals uncertainty, then it should still be regarded as no pen because its not clear obvious, or conclusive. 

 

If audio revealed the party saying it should categorically be awarded, then when reviewed/scrutinised, its revealed its the wrong call, fine the ref for being a useless twat, or otherwise corrupt fucker, or simply incompetent. 

 

 

I’ve been here almost a decade longer than you and don’t think I’ve ever deliberately wound people up, at least not consistently. I think the decision can be defended under the current UCL rule, and that in itself is part of the problem.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Unbelievable

[Erikse]

2 minutes ago, Unlucky Luque said:

Everyone associates football with the explosive celebration of a goal. Every advert, every promo. People are hugging and cheering and chucking beer everywhere.

How the fuck will they market this shit in the future?

 

But hey, did you see how much celebration VAR gave to the PSG fans yesterday?

 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Erikse

[Yorkie]

It's pointless crowing about the abolition of VAR because it just isn't going to happen. However, if you're considering options to reduce its influence on the game (N.B. I'm putting my fingers in my ears re any murmurings about its influence increasing) - removing VAR's input on handball calls should be on the table. 

 

The problem with handball is that it was a complete mess of a rule before VAR, because any notion of 'deliberateness' had all but disappeared. Incidents like Henry vs Ireland or (to select an NUFC example) Jenas vs Arsenal happened once in a blue moon. That means most calls were considering the entirely subjective issues of unnatural positions and unfair advantages by virtue of the ball striking the arm. Decisions of that nature are entirely inappropriate for VAR to intervene in. 

 

I'd wager that, 99 times out of 100, it is obvious that a player has deliberately handballed it. If VAR must be used, have it flag-up those instances alone. But stuff like last night, and probably every single handball incident I've seen VAR intervene in, should just be left alone. It's the ref's call and that's that.  

 

Much like how being a toenail offside can happen (but ultimately have absolutely no bearing on the situation) - balls are going to nick off arms from time to time. The cross last night had already missed its target because it went straight into Tino's abdomen; there's no way that incident has unfairly denied a goalscoring opportunity. Just like being offside by an eyelash doesn't give an attacker an unfair advantage. 

 

This is the sort of tweaking any lobbyists should be calling for. Don't waste time calling for it to be removed altogether, it won't happen. It would be great if we could identify the instances where it is truly overzealous and try and eradicate that. 

[Erikse]

11 minutes ago, Unbelievable said:

I’ve been here almost a decade longer than you and don’t think I’ve ever deliberately wound people up, at least not consistently. I think the decision can be defended under the current UCL rule, and that in itself is part of the problem.

 

 

 

Quote

 

But in the Champions League, UEFA follow the rules set by IFAB, which states 'making a body unnaturally bigger' is an offence. The full handball rules used by UEFA state it is handball if a player 'deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball, or. Touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger.'

It is also deemed an office if: 'A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised.'

 

 

Honestly, even going by their rules, it doesn't seem right. Definetly not clear and obvious. Does he move his arm towards the ball? Is the movement of his arm not a consequence of his body movement for the specific situation?

 

And I'm usually the guy to point it out when referees do the right thing according to the rules, but they still get the blame.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Erikse

[Unbelievable]

I’m only on about the unnatural position part. I’ve watched football for over 3 decades and have seen penalties given (and not given) for such instances throughout that time, so it’s always been quite subjective and, as far as I know, the PL rule of deflection from another body part has only come in fairly recently and doesn’t (yet) apply in European competitions.

 

The VAR assistent intervening when there was nothing “clearly and obviously” wrong with the on-field referee’s decision I cannot condone.

[JCONA]

On 04/11/2023 at 19:58, JCONA said:

Delete VAR. Problem solved.

 

Delete VAR

[Groundhog63]

1 hour ago, mighty__mag said:

 

Guaranteed if they were fined 1k plus their bonuses for an obvious wrong call, they'd 99.9% wouldn't be getting those decisions wrong.

 

 

Glad ya not my gaffer

[El Prontonise]

1 hour ago, mighty__mag said:

 

Guaranteed if they were fined 1k plus their bonuses for an obvious wrong call, they'd 99.9% wouldn't be getting those decisions wrong.

 

 

 

You must be so perfect at your job.

[Interpolic]

59 minutes ago, Abacus said:

Perhaps every match should have a second VAR to review the decisions of the first VAR.

 

Only if that goes wrong should we consider introducing a third VAR.

 

Call it VAR-VAR-FUME