Dogawful Officiating - Dave Coote suspended

[Cf]

I think if I remember right that the reasons Isak's was chalked off against Liverpool was because the linesman raised his flag just as the shot went off so VAR can't do anything about it. So it was a linesman error because he should have let the play finish. He was onside. 

[Cf]

Hmm watching highlights I might be completely wrong there. 

[HaydnNUFC]

2 minutes ago, Cf said:

I think if I remember right that the reasons Isak's was chalked off against Liverpool was because the linesman raised his flag just as the shot went off so VAR can't do anything about it. So it was a linesman error because he should have let the play finish. He was onside. 

 

Nah it was checked. From the .com match report;

 

Quote

Isak's "second" was an excellent solo run down the left from Matt Targett's pass that saw him flagged for getting ahead of Joe Gomez, having left Andy Robertson on his backside and Gomez helpless in the box as he dribbled forward to beat flat-footed Allison in the Kop End goal. A raised flag and a VAR check cut short his joy though.

In terms of the VAR check - the camera used was well in front of the play and zoomed out at the time, so the decision was made using lines almost as wide as the players' legs and ones drawn on at an angle to the centre line (or grass cut line which are assumed to be straight for some reason).

Even then, Isak's foot was in line or behind Gomez's foot, although his knee or shoulder could have been an inch or two further forward.

Is the accuracy or impartiality of the line drawer or play-pauser beyond doubt? Not in our book. Isak looked more onside than Marcus Rashford did when his goal against Liverpool was allowed to stand last week. These are often referred as "matter of fact decisions". Nonsense.

[Cf]

2 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

Nah it was checked. From the .com match report;

 

 

Yeah. I don't recall seeing the lines. And didn't play resume very quickly rather than the usual ages they spend analysing it?

[HaydnNUFC]

Just now, Cf said:

 

Yeah. I don't recall seeing the lines. And didn't play resume very quickly rather than the usual ages they spend analysing it?

 

Aye, think so. Watched back the highlights of almost every single game we've played this season, apart from that one. Don't think I ever will. Far too painful and anger inducing.

[Guest]

I'm not sure I agree that refs should be mic'd or have to come out in public. If the captain and captain alone, or even if the ref can discuss with the manager the reason for the decision, without having players hurling abuse in their face, would do for me.

[Stifler]

16 hours ago, joeyt said:

 

This is dangerous nonsense

I notice how you completely omitted when I said Mitro shouldn’t have done it a couple of times.

[Hanshithispantz]

But Mitro could have killed him when he pushed his shoulder.

 

It’s a clear red and extended ban but people are going over the top like. I love Mitro but he is an absolute moron at times.

[Hanshithispantz]

Regarding referees talking to media, honestly I think they should just have all power during major decisions (penalties, red cards etc) outsourced to VAR, which in turn would need improving (a VAR hub where multiple VARs independently check the decisions). Players and coaches can appeal whether the want to call in a VAR check if they spot anything. VARs would then each write up an independent report at the end of the game which can be viewable online.

 

The on pitch referee would just be responsible for overseeing the flow of the game. The current system, where we know referees need help, makes no sense given VARs cannot help them in fear of undermining them, so it’s an easy fix for that.

 

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by Hanshithispantz

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I think better communication would help a lot TBH. 
 

Clear hand signals, tannoy announcements and big screen graphics the instant a check is in process. 
 

On the decision, on-field referee comes to centre circle on camera and mic, and explains in 15 seconds what the offence was and the rule that is being used. 
 

I want this kind of communication much more than any kind of TV witch hunt after the fact. 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by AyeDubbleYoo

[joeyt]

3 hours ago, Stifler said:

I notice how you completely omitted when I said Mitro shouldn’t have done it a couple of times.

 

I was more focussed on the worrying parts that referees have been asking for it. How have they been asking for it?

[The Prophet]

42 minutes ago, joeyt said:

 

I was more focussed on the worrying parts that referees have been asking for it. How have they been asking for it?

 

While I don't think that they have been "asking for it" at all, referees should be a lot firmer in dishing out cards to players who surround, harass and touch them. 

[geordiesteve710]

4 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

While I don't think that they have been "asking for it" at all, referees should be a lot firmer in dishing out cards to players who surround, harass and touch them. 

And they need to be consistent on it regardless of the player that does it.

 

A common theme you hear when former referees are interviewed is when they talk about managing a game and reference the need to "protect the product." Part of that is making sure the best players are on the pitch and not sitting out half the games through suspension because they can't control their behaviour. It's why Rooney used to get away with murder in domestic games while the law was laid down to the likes of Joey Barton. Or going back further why Dyer gets sent off for telling a linesman to fuck off but Andy D'Urso lets Keane chase him all around Old Trafford unpunished.

 

I used to ref at grass roots level in the late 90s / early 2000s but gave it up after a few years because almost everyone involved just wanted to give you shit and it just wasn't fun. And every time I saw a Premier league referee indulge some brat in their face shouting at them without punishment my heart sank because it just legitimised that behaviour. So although he's been clumsy in the way he puts it across, I do understand what (I think) Stifler is getting at.

 

I don't think what Fernandes did the other week was anywhere near as bad as Mitrovic, but he should have got a three game ban retrospectively because making physical contact with the ref needs to be a red fucking line that you do not cross regardless of who you are, what club you play for or what level of the game you are playing at. Mitro, as much as I like him, should get the book thrown at him.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I don’t believe in game management at all, they should just apply the rules like a robot IMO. 
 

The humanity comes in understanding the game and how things happen, but it shouldn’t extend to things like ‘can’t be giving out yellow cards too early’ and all that. 

[geordiesteve710]

13 hours ago, Unbelievable said:

Or they have seen how much it defuses tensions in other leagues to see a man own up to his mistake so people can move on..?

 

See this sounds like the result of a candid, open and honest discussion which all parties are approaching in good faith, and I can honestly see some value in that.

 

Regrettably, that is exactly the sort of conversation I do not think the broadcast or print media in this country are capable of facilitating. 

[andyc35i]

19 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I don’t believe in game management at all, they should just apply the rules like a robot IMO. 
 

The humanity comes in understanding the game and how things happen, but it shouldn’t extend to things like ‘can’t be giving out yellow cards too early’ and all that. 

That’s why I’m still annoyed about the Ayew tackle on Schar from Friday night. It was a scissor tackle from behind and he didn’t get the ball. It was a clear red card and Schar was extremely lucky he did not have a serious injury as a result. The referee and VAR brush it off because it’s only two minutes into the game. Not sure on the rules, but if the referee gives him a yellow, does it then mean VAR can check if the card needs to be upgraded?

[joeyt]

I've never openly heard referees or former referees talking about 'protecting the product', are there any examples of this?

 

There's always supicions obviously but I'm surprised if any have openly admitted to that being the case

[Stifler]

3 hours ago, joeyt said:

 

I was more focussed on the worrying parts that referees have been asking for it. How have they been asking for it?

As I said in the bit that you quoted. This has been of their own making, and outside of your quotation I go on to say that there lack of self respect in allowing themselves to be controlled by players and clubs as well as pandering to them has lead to this.

At no point have I said it’s justified, in fact I went on to say that I was concerned about the situation it has put referee’s further down the pyramid and in grassroots in.

 

You can condemn them act as well as acknowledging that it largely occurred due to their own making.

[joeyt]

I really don't think it's largely down to their own making. They're just doing their job.

 

I think it's a lot easier said than done to say that they should stand up more to a load of men surrounding screaming at them that they've made the wrong decision especially when they've made the right one.

 

It's hard enough to referee a game of football anyway. There's probably an argument to be made that the FA should retrospectively punish teams and players for surrounding refs. But I think you're severely overestimating how one man in a high pressure environment is expected to do his job and contend with a bunch of men having a go at him for every decision he's making

 

We'll run out of referees one day because it's not worth the abuse that they get every week.

[Stifler]

2 minutes ago, joeyt said:

I really don't think it's largely down to their own making. They're just doing their job.

 

I think it's a lot easier said than done to say that they should stand up more to a load of men surrounding screaming at them that they've made the wrong decision especially when they've made the right one.

 

It's hard enough to referee a game of football anyway. There's probably an argument to be made that the FA should retrospectively punish teams and players for surrounding refs. But I think you're severely overestimating how one man in a high pressure environment is expected to do his job and contend with a bunch of men having a go at him for every decision he's making

 

We'll run out of referees one day because it's not worth the abuse that they get every week.

I’ve long argued that those at the top do not get the support that they need.

We have the richest league, our 2nd tier league is viewed by more people globally than most European top leagues. Our two domestic cup competitions are viewed globally. Our national team is viewed globally.

We have 6 teams with a large global reach compared to 1-2 of most European leagues. Our players wages and managers wages are the highest on average across the league. Our average capacity/crowds across the league are amongst the highest.

When it comes to our referee’s thought they get 1 days training a week, and have full time careers outside of the league. They are refereeing players in the conditions I have deceived above with the facilities to match, and theirs no sports psychologist for the referees to guide them to being in the best position to make the best decisions they can and to have the mentality to stand up for themselves.

Instead we get a bunch of weak yea men who complete the narrative of everything going for the biggest players and biggest clubs.

[joeyt]

Referees are full time in the the Premier League and Championship They don't have other jobs

 

I'm pretty certain they'll be training a lot more than 1 day a week No idea where you're getting this stuff from

[magvicar]

A subjective opinion.

I think there should never be a sending off in any football game.

Red and yellow cards, yes but no sending off with them.

 

I think all football games should be played with 11 players each on the field.

The punishments should come via match bans.

For instance, let's take the Man Utd v Fulham game as an instance.

We know the red cards were warranted for all but to send off Willian and then Mitro basically handed the tie to Man Utd.

Now I know some will argue..so what...it's punishment for Fulham players...but is it really needed that badly because the Fulham players get punished with a penalty and also match bans and fines.

 

 

 

How would it work?

 

Willian concedes the penalty and also gets a red card....but.... the red card for deliberate handball can be two games ban. Obviously Mitro shoving the ref in the manner he did and acting sort of intimidating also gets a red but maybe a 5 game ban and a FA fine plus a club fine of his club deem it necessary.

 

Now then, what if a player goes on to get another yellow?

Then it adds to the yellows that accumulate.

Two yellows in a game equals one red and immediate one game ban.

 

What if a player on red gets another red.

Add in the appropriate ban and fine.

 

 

Obviously this is massively open to criticism but I just think a football game should be contested equally in terms of player numbers.

What does everyone think? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by magvicar
spelling

[joeyt]

Horrendous

 

In that world players can do as many leg breaking tackles as they want in a match knowing they won't get sent off. Where's the fairness in that?

 

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by joeyt

[Shak]

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I’d definitely look into reducing bans, because I think sitting out one match is usually enough. But I can’t see the logic in not having red cards.