Mick Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Yep, it's that simple isn't it. Wonder why other managers haven't thought of this? Can't believe you'd genuinely be happy to see 3 players cover a 50-60 yard patch of grass when you have players running at them. I didn't say that I'd be happy to see 3 players cover 50-60 yards, we don't get attacked right across the pitch and if the ball is played across it then players have time to move over, it's basic really. Why have we got to be the team that tries to cover the opposition? Are we not allowed to get other teams to try and cover what we're doing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deadmau5 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Asking your best offensive players to defend is akin to making a facebook event called " Party in our half". There is no reason for anyone to hold back in that case. The doubling up is much more likely to happen if we are going to have ben arfa covering Simpson. They are both shit at defending Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 When you play right-midfield in a 4-4-2 though, you simply have to track a full-back. Particularly in this league when you have the likes of Enrique, Cole & Kolarov running at you. The right winger doesn't have to track back, otherc can cover, why should we be set up in such a rigid way? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Yep, it's that simple isn't it. Wonder why other managers haven't thought of this? Can't believe you'd genuinely be happy to see 3 players cover a 50-60 yard patch of grass when you have players running at them. I didn't say that I'd be happy to see 3 players cover 50-60 yards, we don't get attacked right across the pitch and if the ball is played across it then players have time to move over, it's basic really. Why have we got to be the team that tries to cover the opposition? Are we not allowed to get other teams to try and cover what we're doing? So Cabaye covers the right midfield...they pass it through the middle...Jonas shuffles across to fill in where Cabaye should have been had HBA ran back...they pass it to the right once more and they're two against one down that side. Hardly rocket science this man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Asking your best offensive players to defend is akin to making a facebook event called " Party in our half". There is no reason for anyone to hold back in that case. The doubling up is much more likely to happen if we are going to have ben arfa covering Simpson. They are both s*** at defending Agreed, we have one player who has proven that he can pick the ball up just inside the opposition half and scoore a goal, why not make the most of that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Fact is, Pardew has handled this situation horrendously and whatever way you slice it has had our most talented player sitting on his arse all bloody season while utterly cack footballers have been stalwarts of the side. He should have got him in the team when the going was good instead of bottling/ignoring it all season long. No doubt if he does finally get a run in the side and does well for the run in some will champion it as a brilliant piece of man management to have had him in shackles for the first 3/4 of the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Aye, tracking back works both ways. If Enrique is attacking the wing and leaving Ben Arfa be, then you have Daniel Agger having to cover for him, opening up the center for your strikers, etc... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Asking your best offensive players to defend is akin to making a facebook event called " Party in our half". There is no reason for anyone to hold back in that case. The doubling up is much more likely to happen if we are going to have ben arfa covering Simpson. They are both s*** at defending Agreed, we have one player who has proven that he can pick the ball up just inside the opposition half and scoore a goal, why not make the most of that? He proved on Monday he can do that, AND track back. Amazing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 So Cabaye covers the right midfield...they pass it through the middle...Jonas shuffles across to fill in where Cabaye should have been had HBA ran back...they pass it to the right once more and they're two against one down that side. Hardly rocket science this man. Tiote meanwhile is where? Why does Jonas have to move so far that he can't get back to his side? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 When you play right-midfield in a 4-4-2 though, you simply have to track a full-back. Particularly in this league when you have the likes of Enrique, Cole & Kolarov running at you. The right winger doesn't have to track back, otherc can cover, why should we be set up in such a rigid way? The general idea of good attacking football is to pull players out of position & exploit the spaces that leaves. You cant base a gameplan around doing it yourself man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deadmau5 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 When you play right-midfield in a 4-4-2 though, you simply have to track a full-back. Particularly in this league when you have the likes of Enrique, Cole & Kolarov running at you. Mate, I understand your point of view and from that angle it makes sense, but its a very negative mindset. Your assumption rests on the premise that THEY will always attack US. Enrique, Cole and Kolarov busy defending or covering HBA or Cisse arent doubling up on anybody, they got their hands full. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Im sure they largely prefer Hatem Ben Arfa "helping out" in defence rather than sniffing around further up the pitch though. Tracking a runner has never stopped far better players than HBA do it at both ends. which is what it comes down to but due to the absolutist nature of many on here when someone says he has to work defensivly, meaning do a bit more when his team doesan't have the ball, take it instead to mean, be a full back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 So Cabaye covers the right midfield...they pass it through the middle...Jonas shuffles across to fill in where Cabaye should have been had HBA ran back...they pass it to the right once more and they're two against one down that side. Hardly rocket science this man. Tiote meanwhile is where? Why does Jonas have to move so far that he can't get back to his side? He's still in the middle, but that doesn't hide the fact that two passes and they're down the other side two against one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 When you play right-midfield in a 4-4-2 though, you simply have to track a full-back. Particularly in this league when you have the likes of Enrique, Cole & Kolarov running at you. Mate, I understand your point of view and from that angle it makes sense, but its a very negative mindset. Your assumption rests on the premise that THEY will always attack US. Enrique, Cole and Kolarov busy defending or covering HBA or Cisse arent doubling up on anybody, they got their hands full. How? Do you think other clubs set up against us and think, "Nah, f*** Ben Arfa, we'll letnthem worry about our left-winger and just let him run 1-on-1 against the left-back". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 He proved on Monday he can do that, AND track back. Amazing! He picked the ball up on Monday just inside the Arsenal half and carried it forward to score, I missed that one. The one I saw him score was where he picked it up just outside the Arsenal box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 So Cabaye covers the right midfield...they pass it through the middle...Jonas shuffles across to fill in where Cabaye should have been had HBA ran back...they pass it to the right once more and they're two against one down that side. Hardly rocket science this man. Tiote meanwhile is where? Why does Jonas have to move so far that he can't get back to his side? He's still in the middle, but that doesn't hide the fact that two passes and they're down the other side two against one. as a side point it's something i've noticed about tiote, his covering deep wide is poor, like he can only read whats happening through the middle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 The general idea of good attacking football is to pull players out of position & exploit the spaces that leaves. You cant base a gameplan around doing it yourself man. We're not doing that though and I think Ben Arfa starting from further up field than the edge of our box gives us more of a chance to open up space, even if it's for other players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deadmau5 Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 When you play right-midfield in a 4-4-2 though, you simply have to track a full-back. Particularly in this league when you have the likes of Enrique, Cole & Kolarov running at you. Mate, I understand your point of view and from that angle it makes sense, but its a very negative mindset. Your assumption rests on the premise that THEY will always attack US. Enrique, Cole and Kolarov busy defending or covering HBA or Cisse arent doubling up on anybody, they got their hands full. How? Do you think other clubs set up against us and think, "Nah, f*** Ben Arfa, we'll letnthem worry about our left-winger and just let him run 1-on-1 against the left-back". Any player assigned to him or in general assigned to prevent counter-attacks happening are going to move up into our half if he is constantly forced to drop deep. In effect, it invites pressure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Man United & Tottenham, have two of the best wingers this season in Bale/Valencia. Both cover their Fb, Valencia specifically has played FB this season & bale obviously also in the past. Those teams dont go "nah itll invite pressure lets leave it" & they have far better FB's than Danny Simpson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 He's still in the middle, but that doesn't hide the fact that two passes and they're down the other side two against one. It takes less time to move a player from the middle of the pitch over to the left than is takes to move a player from the edge of our box to the edge of the opposition box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Man United & Tottenham, have two of the best wingers this season in Bale/Valencia. Both cover their Fb, Valencia specifically has played FB this season & bale obviously also in the past. Those teams dont go "nah itll invite pressure lets leave it" & they have far better FB's than Danny Simpson. Exactly. I bet their managers also don't think, "shit, if he tracks back, he'll not score or set one up today". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 He's still in the middle, but that doesn't hide the fact that two passes and they're down the other side two against one. It takes less time to move a player from the middle of the pitch over to the left than is takes to move a player from the edge of our box to the edge of the opposition box. It's a lot faster to make 2-3 passes than get 2 or 3 players to shuffle over 15-20 yards to cover a gap that Ben Arfa is more than capable of filling himself. Come on, did you never watch Goal? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 which is what it comes down to but due to the absolutist nature of many on here when someone says he has to work defensivly, meaning do a bit more when his team doesan't have the ball, take it instead to mean, be a full back. The best wingers I've seen at this club have been the ones who didn't defend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 They weren't playing in front of Danny Simpson, either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deadmau5 Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 A thing that worries me though, is that Pardew seems to think Ba is fine being the only player up there on the counter - even covered by two centrebacks. As good as Ba is, a long ball landing on his head with two defenders on his back isnt going to worry anyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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