DJ_NUFC Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Crazy how much fans can turn on a player, like. Happens time and time again. It's hardly knee jerk, he's played very poorly for a long time now. Much longer than he played well for the club. I don't see why it's a problem to say 7m is good money or he'll still probably play poor in a 442. Wasn't aimed at those two comments. Just in general a lot of fans have pretty much just wrote of his entire football career and come to the conclusion he's s*** because he hasn't played well for a year or so. Even though this season he's hardly been given enough chances in the first time and i still feel we should be starting him week in week out for a period of time with Remy and Ben Arfa out wide. Looked excellent last 10 mins or so against Fulham when they were all on the pitch, continued that on against Villa, failed against Hull, never to be seen again. Not just him though, we see it time and time again with others at the club. Agree with this 100%. Yes, I agree with Brett. Bang on, mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
healthyaddiction Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 We played plenty last season and did very little. He started 6 of the first 7 games this season and did nothing. It's not just the goals it's the all round performance. He might come good, but I don't see it personally. It's like everyone waiting for Torres to come good again and start scoring like his first season at Liverpool. At what point do you accept that the player is not getting back to that, at least at this club. I don't think you can give him another 10 starts in a row when he's playing like he is really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 We played plenty last season and did very little. He started 6 of the first 7 games this season and did nothing. It's not just the goals it's the all round performance. He might come good, but I don't see it personally. It's like everyone waiting for Torres to come good again and start scoring like his first season at Liverpool. At what point do you accept that the player is not getting back to that, at least at this club. I don't think you can give him another 10 starts in a row when he's playing like he is really. Torres had horrendous injuries to overcome, don't think it's fair to compare the two. He lost that dash of pace because of it and has struggled ever since, Chelsea were crazy for taking that much of an expensive risk. Cisse is struggling with confidence, not injuries or adapting his game. Cisse is a renowned goalscorer and with the right players around him, with the right service, he'll get goals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Cisse is not the renowned goal scorer people make him out to be like. He's had two prolific seasons at Freiburg (scoring 39 in 66 in all competitions), and an outstanding first half a season here (13 in 14). Other than that, his record reads 16 in 75 in the top flights where he's played, so more like 1 in 5 and a decent, hardly spectacular level in the lower leagues in France. I don't want to take away anything from his excellent spell, but there is a distinct possibility it may have been a flash in the pan and the real Cisse is somewhere in between those records, and not the 1 in 2 super striker some seem to think he is, suffering from (a Pardew induced) lack of confidence. For what it's worth, I fear we will once again not invest in another forward this January, so I would like to see if he can resurrect some of his lost form in the second half of the season, but it would be very harsh on the likes of Gouffran to have to make way and the likes of Ben Arfa who arguably are more deserving of a chance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 When he first joined, I don't ever remember thinking his general play was appalling at all. He's clearly completely lost his confidence. A startling fall from grace, as he does nothing right at the minute. I blame Pardew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 His hold up play and touch is nowhere near as bad as people make out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 His hold up play and touch is nowhere near as bad as people make out. His whole ability is nowhere near as bad as people make out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 His hold up play was decent when he joined aye. Wasn't ever particularly good but it was decent. It's fallen to pieces and his general hold up play is legitimately terrible now. Has been so from the start of last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 His hold up play was decent when he joined aye. Wasn't ever particularly good but it was decent. It's fallen to pieces and his general hold up play is legitimately terrible now. Has been so from the start of last season. It is atrocious at the minute. He's getting pushed off the ball, or it's bouncing off of him. Urgh, just a mess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Yeah it's hard to say he's doing anything well at the moment. Doesn't mean he doesn't have the ability, because he clearly does. No change in formation would help either I think, just a form/confidence issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugoinufc Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 He's scored goals throughout his career. You don't have the run of form he did when he first joined without having proven ability and quality. I think his confidence is shot and he needs games/a system built around him. I think he'll score goals throughout his career in the right environment/with the right coach. 110% agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I would swap him for anyone at the moment, take your pick: Shane Long Fuck off, man. No chance How on earth is Shane Long rated so highly on here...same Shane Long that was going to tear Colo a new one then we hardly seen him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 He's scored goals throughout his career. You don't have the run of form he did when he first joined without having proven ability and quality. I think his confidence is shot and he needs games/a system built around him. I think he'll score goals throughout his career in the right environment/with the right coach. 110% agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Cisse is the kind of player that needs good service, needs to be full of confidence and needs to be playing week in week out, in order for him to prosper. When one or all of those things don't happen he loses heart and confidence and will look like a donkey. He is a good player and on his day a supreme goalscorer. He needs games though, same with Ben Arfa. He has been in and out of the side and played out of position or sync quite a lot since the start of last season and that more than anything has effected his form in front of goal. He needs a clean break from us and we need to move him on anyway because he's not suited to the way this manager has us playing, the tactics and those he selects. What we need is a fucking beast of a CF, not a goalscorer as such, but someone who can take care of a few central defenders, win headers, is mobile, quick and good at linking up play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Demba Ba up front with Remy left and Sissoko or Ben Arfa right would be lethal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 If you're playing 3 up top you need an unselfish player in the middle. Not Demba Ba, in other words. He'd get a few goals but nobody else would. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 If you're playing 3 up top you need an unselfish player in the middle. Not Demba Ba, in other words. He'd get a few goals but nobody else would. What? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 If you're playing 3 up top you need an unselfish player in the middle. Not Demba Ba, in other words. He'd get a few goals but nobody else would. Ba isn't a selfish player in terms of team-play and work-rate. I want my central striker to be a bit greedy when it comes to goals anyway, that's what the men either side of him are there for, to provide the service. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 If you're playing 3 up top you need an unselfish player in the middle. Not Demba Ba, in other words. He'd get a few goals but nobody else would. What? To get the best out of the two wide players and ensure they don't get isolated, clearly. Every player that's successfully played that role has been adept at bringing others into play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Cisse is the kind of player that needs good service, needs to be full of confidence and needs to be playing week in week out, in order for him to prosper. When one or all of those things don't happen he loses heart and confidence and will look like a donkey. He is a good player and on his day a supreme goalscorer. He needs games though, same with Ben Arfa. He has been in and out of the side and played out of position or sync quite a lot since the start of last season and that more than anything has effected his form in front of goal. He needs a clean break from us and we need to move him on anyway because he's not suited to the way this manager has us playing, the tactics and those he selects. What we need is a f***ing beast of a CF, not a goalscorer as such, but someone who can take care of a few central defenders, win headers, is mobile, quick and good at linking up play. Amen, hallelujah! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Ba isn't a selfish player in terms of team-play and work-rate. Yes he is. His legs have gone by 65 minutes even when he doesn't particularly exert himself and you seldom see him passing the ball in the final third if there's a possibility to shoot. Which is why Mourinho wants nowt to do with him. Hell of a player in some respects but he's someone to put in the team to feed off scraps and play as an individual up top. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I would swap him for anyone at the moment, take your pick: Shane Long Fuck off, man. No chance How on earth is Shane Long rated so highly on here...same Shane Long that was going to tear Colo a new one then we hardly seen him. 1 game He's played well against us in the past, and I don't think it's a case of him being highly rated, more hard worker = Pardew happy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I dont think Cisse will recapture his previous form, and probably needs a change of scenery to do so. That being said i think Pardew and shunting Cisse out wide to play Shola up top is when his form dropped. Not saying Pardew is directly responsible, but Cisse is a confidence player and to see someone like Shola constantly played ahead of you, to the point you're played on the right wing, and seen as poorer in that position than a player of Shola's ability. Well it cant do your confidence much good. And now it's catch 22, Pardew doesn't trust him enough to play well so doesn't play him, and Cisse cant regain any confidence because he's not playing. Best he goes elsewhere to get games to get that confidence back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I dont think Cisse will recapture his previous form, and probably needs a change of scenery to do so. That being said i think Pardew and shunting Cisse out wide to play Shola up top is when his form dropped. Not saying Pardew is directly responsible, but Cisse is a confidence player and to see someone like Shola constantly played ahead of you, to the point you're played on the right wing, and seen as poorer in that position than a player of Shola's ability. Well it cant do your confidence much good. And now it's catch 22, Pardew doesn't trust him enough to play well so doesn't play him, and Cisse cant regain any confidence because he's not playing. Best he got elsewhere to get games to get that confidence back. His form had dropped since at least a few months before that ridiculous experiment, which was one of the probable causes. He didn't want to keep Papiss up top as we were suffering due partly to his lack of goals, but didn't want to drop him to the bench to prevent his confidence being shot altogether/hoping he would score a goal or two from out wide to recapture his confidence/form. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 His form dropped the second we put Ba's needs before his and the team went to shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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