Cajun Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 You said we started the season with everyone fit which is clearly wrong as Colo missed 5 out of 10 games, Krul missed 4 and Tiote missed 5, this is a huge defensive deficit if we are looking at how well we played last season. Is it that surprising we started a bit more defensive? Not that Pardew isn't an over cautious manager but with Colo out our defence is in trouble. I like S Taylor a lot but he isn't one to bring out the best in those around him like Colo can. As Jack Flash said, our success last season was based on a usually sound defence which allowed us to win games with players being confident we were unlikely to concede many. We haven't had that this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Having 2 or 3 players out isn't a lot at all, even if they are key ones. We've looked far less than the sum of our parts for the vast majority of the season, it's as simple as that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Focussing on the players we have missing and not what the opposition have missing as well is naive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Having 2 or 3 players out isn't a lot at all, even if they are key ones. We've looked far less than the sum of our parts for the vast majority of the season, it's as simple as that. I disagree when we have a squad like we do. Just having one player out (Colo) makes a massive difference as we don't have another defender at the club capable of keeping things organised at the back. If it was Simpson, Jonas and Cisse out we wouldn't have been hurt so much. Colo, Krul and Tiote (based on last seasons performances) is massive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Then you should look at who are the backups. Bigi? fergie? Sammy? We even lose Raylor FFS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 You'll never convince me we shouldn't have far more points and have played far better football than we have so far this season. We've underperformed significantly, all things considered. Our squad is short on quality though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 You said we started the season with everyone fit which is clearly wrong as Colo missed 5 out of 10 games, Krul missed 4 and Tiote missed 5, this is a huge defensive deficit if we are looking at how well we played last season. Is it that surprising we started a bit more defensive? Not that Pardew isn't an over cautious manager but with Colo out our defence is in trouble. I like S Taylor a lot but he isn't one to bring out the best in those around him like Colo can. As Jack Flash said, our success last season was based on a usually sound defence which allowed us to win games with players being confident we were unlikely to concede many. We haven't had that this season. Ok, I wasn't 100% accurate when I said we started the season with everyone fit, we were missing one on the first day of the season. Moving on..... ...I agree that our success last season was based on being defensively solid and relying on one of our front players nicking a goal, it's something that has been well discussed on here. You'll see posts from me after 7, 8, 9 games in saying I expected our results to pick up when we had players returning. It hasn't happened. We're 18 games into the season and we've probably seen one good performance, at the SOS. Regardless of who has or hasn't been available that's an alarming state of affairs, particularly when you factor in the reasons we looked poor at times last year. They're exactly the same reasons we've been poor this season, negative, rigid football designed not to concede. There's a pattern not just emerging but now well established, we've seen the football Pardew wants to play, we know what he believes in. I just hope for our sake that he gets some players that suit his game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 You'll never convince me we shouldn't have far more points and have played far better football than we have so far this season. We've underperformed significantly, all things considered. Our squad is short on quality though. I would never argue we haven't underperformed and that Pardew couldn't have done more. I just think there are other factors that haven't helped but the general grumble seems to be Pardew's tactics or Ba being a greedy cunt who has the audacity to demand he plays in his natural position are the only things that have hindered us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varadi Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 You'll never convince me we shouldn't have far more points and have played far better football than we have so far this season. We've underperformed significantly, all things considered. Don't think anyone can dispute that tbh. Some more positive signs in recent weeks I think though, and a decent transfer window would certainly be a big help (and a pleasant surprise) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 You said we started the season with everyone fit which is clearly wrong as Colo missed 5 out of 10 games, Krul missed 4 and Tiote missed 5, this is a huge defensive deficit if we are looking at how well we played last season. Is it that surprising we started a bit more defensive? Not that Pardew isn't an over cautious manager but with Colo out our defence is in trouble. I like S Taylor a lot but he isn't one to bring out the best in those around him like Colo can. As Jack Flash said, our success last season was based on a usually sound defence which allowed us to win games with players being confident we were unlikely to concede many. We haven't had that this season. Ok, I wasn't 100% accurate when I said we started the season with everyone fit, we were missing one on the first day of the season. Moving on..... ...I agree that our success last season was based on being defensively solid and relying on one of our front players nicking a goal, it's something that has been well discussed on here. You'll see posts from me after 7, 8, 9 games in saying I expected our results to pick up when we had players returning. It hasn't happened. We're 18 games into the season and we've probably seen one good performance, at the SOS. Regardless of who has or hasn't been available that's an alarming state of affairs, particularly when you factor in the reasons we looked poor at times last year. They're exactly the same reasons we've been poor this season, negative, rigid football designed not to concede. There's a pattern not just emerging but now well established, we've seen the football Pardew wants to play, we know what he believes in. I just hope for our sake that he gets some players that suit his game. I do actually agree with a lot of your opinions Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Pardew's tactics have been the single biggest factor imo. A shamelessly unambitious transfer window isn't far behind like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 You'll never convince me we shouldn't have far more points and have played far better football than we have so far this season. We've underperformed significantly, all things considered. Our squad is short on quality though. I would never argue we haven't underperformed and that Pardew couldn't have done more. I just think there are other factors that haven't helped but the general grumble seems to be Pardew's tactics or Ba being a greedy cunt who has the audacity to demand he plays in his natural position are the only things that have hindered us. No post can ever be a catch all state of affairs though, you're asking for too much. Personally I think the managers tactics and approach to the game are the number one influence on the fortunes of any team, and I'd be interested to hear an argument stating otherwise. We've been bad this season, really bad, after 18 games that's the managers fault IMO, and the Ba issue is part of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Pardew's tactics have been the single biggest factor imo. A shamelessly unambitious transfer window isn't far behind like. Same here. A better manager would certainly have got more out of the available players. He's very clueless when out of his comfort zone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Having 2 or 3 players out isn't a lot at all, even if they are key ones. We've looked far less than the sum of our parts for the vast majority of the season, it's as simple as that. I disagree when we have a squad like we do. Just having one player out (Colo) makes a massive difference as we don't have another defender at the club capable of keeping things organised at the back. If it was Simpson, Jonas and Cisse out we wouldn't have been hurt so much. Colo, Krul and Tiote (based on last seasons performances) is massive. Losing the players you mention might not have been such a problem if we based our game around hurting the opposition instead of stopping them. We've had far worse defences at this club and managed because we based our game around getting at the opposition and letting them worry about us instead of worrying about them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Having 2 or 3 players out isn't a lot at all, even if they are key ones. We've looked far less than the sum of our parts for the vast majority of the season, it's as simple as that. I disagree when we have a squad like we do. Just having one player out (Colo) makes a massive difference as we don't have another defender at the club capable of keeping things organised at the back. If it was Simpson, Jonas and Cisse out we wouldn't have been hurt so much. Colo, Krul and Tiote (based on last seasons performances) is massive. Losing the players you mention might not have been such a problem if we based our game around hurting the opposition instead of stopping them. We've had far worse defences at this club and managed because we based our game around getting at the opposition and letting them worry about us instead of worrying about them. This is my single biggest pet hate about Pardew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Having 2 or 3 players out isn't a lot at all, even if they are key ones. We've looked far less than the sum of our parts for the vast majority of the season, it's as simple as that. I disagree when we have a squad like we do. Just having one player out (Colo) makes a massive difference as we don't have another defender at the club capable of keeping things organised at the back. If it was Simpson, Jonas and Cisse out we wouldn't have been hurt so much. Colo, Krul and Tiote (based on last seasons performances) is massive. Losing the players you mention might not have been such a problem if we based our game around hurting the opposition instead of stopping them. We've had far worse defences at this club and managed because we based our game around getting at the opposition and letting them worry about us instead of worrying about them. We have had worse defences I agree but we have had players like Bellamy, Speed, Robert, Solano and Shearer in front of them. As much as I rate our current players there is only really one who comes close to any of those (Ben Arfa). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 True. Dyer too would walk into our current side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 We have had worse defences I agree but we have had players like Bellamy, Speed, Robert, Solano and Shearer in front of them. As much as I rate our current players there is only really one who comes close to any of those (Ben Arfa). Ben Arfa, Cabaye, Ba, Cisse, Anita and Marveaux are good enough players to get something out of. Ba and Cisse both have a better goals to game ration here than Shearer had and that's while playing for a negative manager. We don't have wingers like either Solano or Robert, we do have very good players who could do much better if we set up in a way that was going to bring the best out of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 True. Dyer too would walk into our current side. Dyer wouldn't have been the same player in this team as he was under Robson because he would be starting from much deeper in this team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 True. Dyer too would walk into our current side. Dyer wouldn't have been the same player in this team as he was under Robson because he would be starting from much deeper in this team. Talking purely personnel, not tactics or formations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimburst Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 You'll never convince me we shouldn't have far more points and have played far better football than we have so far this season. We've underperformed significantly, all things considered. Our squad is short on quality though. I would never argue we haven't underperformed and that Pardew couldn't have done more. I just think there are other factors that haven't helped but the general grumble seems to be Pardew's tactics or Ba being a greedy cunt who has the audacity to demand he plays in his natural position are the only things that have hindered us. It's pretty audacious to demand anything pertaining to 'where you play' when you play football for millions a year, mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I knew that argument would come up. He earns as much (probably less than a fair few who perform as well as he does in that position). That's just football. Yes he makes millions a year but it's not like we are giving him some once in a lifetime opportunity, others would pay him the same wage and allow him to play in that position because he does a bloody good job in it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 This whole bullshit about Ba wanting to play where or what has got to stop, honestly our fans are going on like old women. It's up to the manager where he wants to play his players, it's all down to the manager, players can have their preference and such but its f*** all to do with them, they are there to do what the coach tells him to do. and by the way some people so f***ing naive to believe that Ba not playing out wide is because he and Pardew has some sort of agreement. wake up. Pardew is last man you would rely on to honor such nonsense, he f***ing shagged half the team's wives back down southampton, he sold a load of old bullshit to hba and cabaye about his team playing good football only have them hoofing it around for over a year and a half. I dont blame Ba or any players when i don't see them at a position they can be acustomed to. It's down to the manager to have the man management skills to persuade a player where he wants him to play and get a performance out of him in that area, and right now Pardew has failed miserably. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 What a load of rubbish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 More like Easter the reincarnation of Christmas tree Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now