Cajun Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 They have both played the majority of this season in the centre and Cisse has looked toothless (I have to stress I love Cisse, feel like I am putting him down just to defend Ba but I really do like him). I don't think Cisse would have taken his chances if we lined up like last season, he is just going through a dip in form and thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal because we would be REALLY struggling if we had. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 look i believe for what its worth (f*** all) that Ba is playing up top simply because of Pardew's short sighted reliance on cheap stats. He see Cisse not scoring much, off form, therefore he can't play upfront on his own. Thus no Ba out on the left, Ba must play upfront. It's that simple, I don't believe he scared of Ba and his agent throwing another strop. He's scared the goals will dry up if Ba is not playing upfront. Doesn't explain why we played 2 up front for most of the season until the last few games. You can't be this stupid. it explains perfectly why he played them both uptop, becuase he's scared of losing the goal threat of Ba if he's out wide. In pardew's mind 4-4-2 is heaven. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 (I have to stress I love Cisse, feel like I am putting him down just to defend Ba but I really do like him). It does come across that way to be honest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I think Cisse would play RB if asked and give his all there too, he has not complained well publicly anyway about where he is played. Fans are of the opinion he would be best played central in a front three, I am not so sure the same could be said for Ba. YES its upto the manager who he plays where but its not as easy as that, players play better when happy & I am sure it was stated publicly that Ba was not happy being played wide left. He looks a threat from there he caused all sorts of problems for QPR yesterday when he pulled out wide left and as far as I can remember yesterday is the only game this season where Ba has done that allowing Cisse to go central, so Pardew must want it tried but is doing in as a trial during a game and not as a constant system change. That may be down to Ba not wanting to do so therefore as a compromise he has asked him do drift out there occasionally. Cisse has played 4 (?) games out there and kicked off when he was subbed. Bit early to proclaim he would play anywhere for the team and Ba is the devil Not what I am saying, he was not happy being subbed does that mean he was not happy on the wing ? Was he angry that he seen it was Shola coming on and knew the system would change so Shola could play central? I did not see a player pissed off to be playing wide jut a layer who wanted to be on the pitch. My thoughts on Ba come from what was said by him or his people about him not wanting to play on the left, its not like he was a winger same for Cisse its wide of a front three not a midfield four. Its obvious they had been asked to alternate so both had a chance of playing the central striker role. I would be gutted if Demba left us see him as a great player but we need him to be a great team player and I don't think he is that. I am pissed off that it seems Pardew is doing what he can do to accommodate Ba and not just telling him to play wide left for a spell and see if it helps the team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 (I have to stress I love Cisse, feel like I am putting him down just to defend Ba but I really do like him). It does come across that way to be honest. I know, someone said on another forum about how them arguing against one point made them look like they were saying something they didn't believe and that hit home. I do really, really like Cisse. I have argued myself that a player with his record doesn't suddenly become a poor player and laughed at those who weirdly tried to claim he only scored screamers and has been found out/luck run out. He is a great finisher and I have no doubt he will get over this rut, but while he is in one we need to play the forward who is putting them away in his preferred position rather than moving him out wide in the blind hope Cisse find that form it instantly. We aren't creating many chances and can't afford to detriment an already ineffective goalscoring side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 look i believe for what its worth (f*** all) that Ba is playing up top simply because of Pardew's short sighted reliance on cheap stats. He see Cisse not scoring much, off form, therefore he can't play upfront on his own. Thus no Ba out on the left, Ba must play upfront. It's that simple, I don't believe he scared of Ba and his agent throwing another strop. He's scared the goals will dry up if Ba is not playing upfront. Doesn't explain why we played 2 up front for most of the season until the last few games. You can't be this stupid. it explains perfectly why he played them both uptop, becuase he's scared of losing the goal threat of Ba. WBA (A) 3-1 Liverpool (H) 2-0 Swansea (A) 2-0 Bolton (H) 2-0 Stoke (H) 3-0 Playing 433 (or a variation on it) with Cisse central and Ba on the left - 15 points, 12 goals scored, 1 goal conceded. I doubt Pardew cares who scores the goals. If you think Ba hasn't had a word and that hasn't influenced Pardew then you're... well you're very naive, ironically enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 They did link up yesterday though and but for a slightly over hit pass by Demba Cisse was in oh and a cracking defensive tackle. Its that kind of link up play we are desperate to see but if they play so far apart its not going to develop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Pardew has massively screwed up the Ba/Cisse situation in trying to keep Ba happy. Ironically, he's probably made it more likely that we'll lose Ba and we'll be left with Cisse who is in poor form because of the way he's been managed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I think Cisse would play RB if asked and give his all there too, he has not complained well publicly anyway about where he is played. Fans are of the opinion he would be best played central in a front three, I am not so sure the same could be said for Ba. YES its upto the manager who he plays where but its not as easy as that, players play better when happy & I am sure it was stated publicly that Ba was not happy being played wide left. He looks a threat from there he caused all sorts of problems for QPR yesterday when he pulled out wide left and as far as I can remember yesterday is the only game this season where Ba has done that allowing Cisse to go central, so Pardew must want it tried but is doing in as a trial during a game and not as a constant system change. That may be down to Ba not wanting to do so therefore as a compromise he has asked him do drift out there occasionally. Cisse has played 4 (?) games out there and kicked off when he was subbed. Bit early to proclaim he would play anywhere for the team and Ba is the devil Not what I am saying, he was not happy being subbed does that mean he was not happy on the wing ? Was he angry that he seen it was Shola coming on and knew the system would change so Shola could play central? I did not see a player p*ssed off to be playing wide jut a layer who wanted to be on the pitch. My thoughts on Ba come from what was said by him or his people about him not wanting to play on the left, its not like he was a winger same for Cisse its wide of a front three not a midfield four. Its obvious they had been asked to alternate so both had a chance of playing the central striker role. I would be gutted if Demba left us see him as a great player but we need him to be a great team player and I don't think he is that. I am p*ssed off that it seems Pardew is doing what he can do to accommodate Ba and not just telling him to play wide left for a spell and see if it helps the team. it's Pardew's lack of imagination thats worrying. If he's not willing to put Ba on the wing, then why not try playing two wide men either side of Ba, or play two wide men either side of Cisse. and I don't mean sticking a striker out as a wide man. It's these things he hasn't tried enough. it his pure arrogance and it always takes the shit to hit the fan before he makes real changes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Pardew has massively screwed up the Ba/Cisse situation in trying to keep Ba happy. Ironically, he's probably made it more likely that we'll lose Ba and we'll be left with Cisse who is in poor form because of the way he's been managed. I think this is the view of many fans and maybe some players, makes sense if we think it they may too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 The whole situation really is starting to depress me. Just want whats best of the team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I think Cisse would play RB if asked and give his all there too, he has not complained well publicly anyway about where he is played. Fans are of the opinion he would be best played central in a front three, I am not so sure the same could be said for Ba. YES its upto the manager who he plays where but its not as easy as that, players play better when happy & I am sure it was stated publicly that Ba was not happy being played wide left. He looks a threat from there he caused all sorts of problems for QPR yesterday when he pulled out wide left and as far as I can remember yesterday is the only game this season where Ba has done that allowing Cisse to go central, so Pardew must want it tried but is doing in as a trial during a game and not as a constant system change. That may be down to Ba not wanting to do so therefore as a compromise he has asked him do drift out there occasionally. Cisse has played 4 (?) games out there and kicked off when he was subbed. Bit early to proclaim he would play anywhere for the team and Ba is the devil Not what I am saying, he was not happy being subbed does that mean he was not happy on the wing ? Was he angry that he seen it was Shola coming on and knew the system would change so Shola could play central? I did not see a player p*ssed off to be playing wide jut a layer who wanted to be on the pitch. My thoughts on Ba come from what was said by him or his people about him not wanting to play on the left, its not like he was a winger same for Cisse its wide of a front three not a midfield four. Its obvious they had been asked to alternate so both had a chance of playing the central striker role. I would be gutted if Demba left us see him as a great player but we need him to be a great team player and I don't think he is that. I am p*ssed off that it seems Pardew is doing what he can do to accommodate Ba and not just telling him to play wide left for a spell and see if it helps the team. it's Pardew's lack of imagination thats worrying. If he's not willing to put Ba on the wing, then why not try playing two wide men either side of Ba, or play two wide men either side of Cisse. and I don't mean sticking a striker out as a wide man. It's these things he hasn't tried enough. it his pure arrogance and it always takes the shit to hit the fan before he makes real changes. I think he could play Ba & Cisse closer together with a third striker or say Mav centrally behind them, he may have trued this with Benny as the central deeper one of the front three but only once as far as I can remember Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 look i believe for what its worth (f*** all) that Ba is playing up top simply because of Pardew's short sighted reliance on cheap stats. He see Cisse not scoring much, off form, therefore he can't play upfront on his own. Thus no Ba out on the left, Ba must play upfront. It's that simple, I don't believe he scared of Ba and his agent throwing another strop. He's scared the goals will dry up if Ba is not playing upfront. Doesn't explain why we played 2 up front for most of the season until the last few games. You can't be this stupid. it explains perfectly why he played them both uptop, becuase he's scared of losing the goal threat of Ba. WBA (A) 3-1 Liverpool (H) 2-0 Swansea (A) 2-0 Bolton (H) 2-0 Stoke (H) 3-0 Playing 433 (or a variation on it) with Cisse central and Ba on the left - 15 points, 12 goals scored, 1 goal conceded. I doubt Pardew cares who scores the goals. If you think Ba hasn't had a word and that hasn't influenced Pardew then you're... well you're very naive, ironically enough. i think you are misunderstanding what im saying, i dont doubt Ba has made his displeasure about playing out wide, im saying its up to pardew to put him out wide if he wants to., its down to him. A good manager can do that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimburst Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 They have both played the majority of this season in the centre and Cisse has looked toothless (I have to stress I love Cisse, feel like I am putting him down just to defend Ba but I really do like him). I don't think Cisse would have taken his chances if we lined up like last season, he is just going through a dip in form and thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal because we would be REALLY struggling if we had. Cisse's never played in a 442, to be fair. He looks far less suited to it than Ba, maybe because Ba is a better player? Who knows. "thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal" I don't get this, you're agreeing we're treating Cisse poorly? Like I said, we're not playing well offensively, maybe we could change it up a little see if we can help our world class, 10 million pound signing instead of stringing him out on the wing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 They have both played the majority of this season in the centre and Cisse has looked toothless (I have to stress I love Cisse, feel like I am putting him down just to defend Ba but I really do like him). I don't think Cisse would have taken his chances if we lined up like last season, he is just going through a dip in form and thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal because we would be REALLY struggling if we had. Cisse's never played in a 442, to be fair. He looks far less suited to it than Ba, maybe because Ba is a better player? Who knows. "thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal" I don't get this, you're agreeing we're treating Cisse poorly? Like I said, we're not playing well offensively, maybe we could change it up a little see if we can help our world class, 10 million pound signing instead of stringing him out on the wing. I didn't say we were treating Cisse poorly I said he was playing poorly, we aren't scoring many and thankfully we haven't marginalised the only player who currently looks capable of scoring his fair share of goals. At the end of the day moving one of them out wide if going to limit their chances, I would rather it be the one who isn't scoring than the one who is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Save arguments pushes Demba and Cisse a little wider meaning they can drift wide or drift in depending on what side play is building but also can play facing goal instead of with their backs to it. ------Perch----------Anita --------------Marv -----Cisse------------Demba----- Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 look i believe for what its worth (f*** all) that Ba is playing up top simply because of Pardew's short sighted reliance on cheap stats. He see Cisse not scoring much, off form, therefore he can't play upfront on his own. Thus no Ba out on the left, Ba must play upfront. It's that simple, I don't believe he scared of Ba and his agent throwing another strop. He's scared the goals will dry up if Ba is not playing upfront. Doesn't explain why we played 2 up front for most of the season until the last few games. You can't be this stupid. it explains perfectly why he played them both uptop, becuase he's scared of losing the goal threat of Ba. WBA (A) 3-1 Liverpool (H) 2-0 Swansea (A) 2-0 Bolton (H) 2-0 Stoke (H) 3-0 Playing 433 (or a variation on it) with Cisse central and Ba on the left - 15 points, 12 goals scored, 1 goal conceded. I doubt Pardew cares who scores the goals. If you think Ba hasn't had a word and that hasn't influenced Pardew then you're... well you're very naive, ironically enough. i think you are misunderstanding what im saying, i dont doubt Ba has made his displeasure about playing out wide, im saying its up to pardew to put him out wide if he wants to., its down to him. A good manager can do that. Well clearly he has a choice, however the choices he's making are very clearly based on the wishes of one player. They're both to blame. However, your original post says that we're only playing this way due to Pardew's tactical cluelessness and it's nothing to do with a fear of upsetting Ba, so you're basically completely changing your story and accusing me of not understanding your point now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimburst Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 They have both played the majority of this season in the centre and Cisse has looked toothless (I have to stress I love Cisse, feel like I am putting him down just to defend Ba but I really do like him). I don't think Cisse would have taken his chances if we lined up like last season, he is just going through a dip in form and thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal because we would be REALLY struggling if we had. Cisse's never played in a 442, to be fair. He looks far less suited to it than Ba, maybe because Ba is a better player? Who knows. "thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal" I don't get this, you're agreeing we're treating Cisse poorly? Like I said, we're not playing well offensively, maybe we could change it up a little see if we can help our world class, 10 million pound signing instead of stringing him out on the wing. I didn't say we were treating Cisse poorly I said he was playing poorly, we aren't scoring many and thankfully we haven't marginalised the only player who currently looks capable of scoring his fair share of goals. Ah man, I can't see how you can't see we're just totally fucking Cisse just so Ba can score goals. Cisse looks shit because he's on the wing. How will he ever prove he's good enough to play up front if he never gets to do so? I want both of them in the team playing well, we'll not get that without changing something, namely the formation or the players in that formation. Cisse shouldn't be on the right, he's god awful there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 They have both played the majority of this season in the centre and Cisse has looked toothless (I have to stress I love Cisse, feel like I am putting him down just to defend Ba but I really do like him). I don't think Cisse would have taken his chances if we lined up like last season, he is just going through a dip in form and thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal because we would be REALLY struggling if we had. Cisse's never played in a 442, to be fair. He looks far less suited to it than Ba, maybe because Ba is a better player? Who knows. "thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal" I don't get this, you're agreeing we're treating Cisse poorly? Like I said, we're not playing well offensively, maybe we could change it up a little see if we can help our world class, 10 million pound signing instead of stringing him out on the wing. I didn't say we were treating Cisse poorly I said he was playing poorly, we aren't scoring many and thankfully we haven't marginalised the only player who currently looks capable of scoring his fair share of goals. Ah man, I can't see how you can't see we're just totally fucking Cisse just so Ba can score goals. Cisse looks shit because he's on the wing. How will he ever prove he's good enough to play up front if he never gets to do so? I want both of them in the team playing well, we'll not get that without changing something, namely the formation or the players in that formation. Cisse shouldn't be on the right, he's god awful there. We are 18 games into the season, why are people talking like Cisse has played the whole season on the wing? He has played a very small percentage there after struggling to score in his natural position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 WBA (A) 3-1 Liverpool (H) 2-0 Swansea (A) 2-0 Bolton (H) 2-0 Stoke (H) 3-0 Thanks for the reminder. This run of games is the only period I saw some football from Nufc under Pardew. The best proof of the possibility to play well and positively and to win games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 They have both played the majority of this season in the centre and Cisse has looked toothless (I have to stress I love Cisse, feel like I am putting him down just to defend Ba but I really do like him). I don't think Cisse would have taken his chances if we lined up like last season, he is just going through a dip in form and thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal because we would be REALLY struggling if we had. Cisse's never played in a 442, to be fair. He looks far less suited to it than Ba, maybe because Ba is a better player? Who knows. "thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal" I don't get this, you're agreeing we're treating Cisse poorly? Like I said, we're not playing well offensively, maybe we could change it up a little see if we can help our world class, 10 million pound signing instead of stringing him out on the wing. I didn't say we were treating Cisse poorly I said he was playing poorly, we aren't scoring many and thankfully we haven't marginalised the only player who currently looks capable of scoring his fair share of goals. At the end of the day moving one of them out wide if going to limit their chances, I would rather it be the one who isn't scoring than the one who is. I would rather it be the one who made his name playing there and scoring loads of goals in that position in Germany and at West Ham rather than the one who has never played there and looks totally unsuited to it, despite his best efforts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 They have both played the majority of this season in the centre and Cisse has looked toothless (I have to stress I love Cisse, feel like I am putting him down just to defend Ba but I really do like him). I don't think Cisse would have taken his chances if we lined up like last season, he is just going through a dip in form and thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal because we would be REALLY struggling if we had. Cisse's never played in a 442, to be fair. He looks far less suited to it than Ba, maybe because Ba is a better player? Who knows. "thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal" I don't get this, you're agreeing we're treating Cisse poorly? Like I said, we're not playing well offensively, maybe we could change it up a little see if we can help our world class, 10 million pound signing instead of stringing him out on the wing. I didn't say we were treating Cisse poorly I said he was playing poorly, we aren't scoring many and thankfully we haven't marginalised the only player who currently looks capable of scoring his fair share of goals. Ah man, I can't see how you can't see we're just totally fucking Cisse just so Ba can score goals. Cisse looks shit because he's on the wing. How will he ever prove he's good enough to play up front if he never gets to do so? I want both of them in the team playing well, we'll not get that without changing something, namely the formation or the players in that formation. Cisse shouldn't be on the right, he's god awful there. We are 18 games into the season, why are people talking like Cisse has played the whole season on the wing? He has played a very small percentage there after struggling to score in his natural position. We tend to hoof the ball constantly when we play 442, don't ask me why but we just do. Not saying that this service is entirely suitable for Ba either but it's totally unsuitable for Cisse and Ba is more likely to create something for himself. Suppose what I'm getting at is that Cisse hasn't had the chance to play central in a front 3, a position in which he excelled last season. FWIW I don't think Cisse's been as bad on the wing as is being made out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 look i believe for what its worth (f*** all) that Ba is playing up top simply because of Pardew's short sighted reliance on cheap stats. He see Cisse not scoring much, off form, therefore he can't play upfront on his own. Thus no Ba out on the left, Ba must play upfront. It's that simple, I don't believe he scared of Ba and his agent throwing another strop. He's scared the goals will dry up if Ba is not playing upfront. Doesn't explain why we played 2 up front for most of the season until the last few games. You can't be this stupid. it explains perfectly why he played them both uptop, becuase he's scared of losing the goal threat of Ba. WBA (A) 3-1 Liverpool (H) 2-0 Swansea (A) 2-0 Bolton (H) 2-0 Stoke (H) 3-0 Playing 433 (or a variation on it) with Cisse central and Ba on the left - 15 points, 12 goals scored, 1 goal conceded. I doubt Pardew cares who scores the goals. If you think Ba hasn't had a word and that hasn't influenced Pardew then you're... well you're very naive, ironically enough. i think you are misunderstanding what im saying, i dont doubt Ba has made his displeasure about playing out wide, im saying its up to pardew to put him out wide if he wants to., its down to him. A good manager can do that. Well clearly he has a choice, however the choices he's making are very clearly based on the wishes of one player. They're both to blame. However, your original post says that we're only playing this way due to Pardew's tactical cluelessness and it's nothing to do with a fear of upsetting Ba, so you're basically completely changing your story and accusing me of not understanding your point now. no no, im saying is even if Ba and Pardew has some type of agreement to play him out top, Pardew will break it at some point and not honor that. He would not hesitate to to play Ba outwide once his goals dries up. I am certain of that. Once Ba stop scoring in a succession of games Ba will be flung out on the wings when Pardew decides to play 4-5-1 / 4-3-3 , just like he did to Cisse. Im saying here is this situation is less about player power and more about the ineptitude of the manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 They have both played the majority of this season in the centre and Cisse has looked toothless (I have to stress I love Cisse, feel like I am putting him down just to defend Ba but I really do like him). I don't think Cisse would have taken his chances if we lined up like last season, he is just going through a dip in form and thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal because we would be REALLY struggling if we had. Cisse's never played in a 442, to be fair. He looks far less suited to it than Ba, maybe because Ba is a better player? Who knows. "thankfully we didn't move Ba out wide where he looked just as poor in front of goal" I don't get this, you're agreeing we're treating Cisse poorly? Like I said, we're not playing well offensively, maybe we could change it up a little see if we can help our world class, 10 million pound signing instead of stringing him out on the wing. I didn't say we were treating Cisse poorly I said he was playing poorly, we aren't scoring many and thankfully we haven't marginalised the only player who currently looks capable of scoring his fair share of goals. At the end of the day moving one of them out wide if going to limit their chances, I would rather it be the one who isn't scoring than the one who is. I would rather it be the one who made his name playing there and scoring loads of goals in that position in Germany and at West Ham. Can't say I saw much of Ba before he came to England but there must be a reason he 'kicked off' about playing central. The reason normally spouted is he likes the glory of scoring goals but if he has played the majority of his career in that position it's strange that he wants to move central given he has such a good career record Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimburst Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Whey I just want to see Cisse back to his best Jon, what do you have against that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now