Interpolic Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Maybe he thinks from a religious and ethical standpoint that charging a little bit of interest is a bit wrong, but charging a lot of interest is a lot wrong? Doesn't seem to be a totally whacked out, paradoxical and absolutely illogical position to hold. It seems like the kind of position most people have on most things. I said that earlier and was ignored. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Maybe he thinks from a religious and ethical standpoint that charging a little bit of interest is a bit wrong, but charging a lot of interest is a lot wrong? Doesn't seem to be a totally whacked out, paradoxical and absolutely illogical position to hold. It seems like the kind of position most people have on most things. barclays charge £25 for going £1 overdrawn, what rate of interest is that ? not to mention the costs we've all had to incur, barclays customers or not, for their libor rigging and tax avoidance. surely after kicking up about one sponsor it's only natural to infer that he's ok with the others. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 It's an avoidable situation which hasn't avoided by the club therefore it's the clubs fault...IMO. Couldn't give a shit about the intricacies of it. Our best striker is missing out on important pre-season for non-footballing reasons, as with nearly everything else to do with NUFC it's fucking embarrassing. Ok, how would you avoid it? Also it amazes me frankly that you think a guy thats being paid millions to play Football has no responsibility in sorting out a work issue. Both parties are responsible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I'm curious as to why all of this is kicking off only just now when Wonga was announced in September of last year. To be fair it was reported almost from day one that we'd have a problem with the Muslim players over this. Cisse was consistently mentioned. Best I could find on google (from 1/9/2012 to 1/6/2013) was a few articles from the start by local clerics/imams about it, usual daily mail troublemaking although I think there was a telegraph article in there too. Nothing actually from the players themselves. And then radio silence. I reserve the right to be disappointed in him for leaving it to the 11th hour to start this. It was reported properly about Cisse having an issue with it on 11th June. It's now just about the 24th July and precisely nothing has been done about it. It could be described as the 11th hour in terms of the deal being announced last year, but there's much more to say it's just gross incompetence that this hasn't been What do we do to sort this within a guarenteed time scale then? Give him a huge pay rise to negate his beliefs? Cancel a multi million pound contract for one player? Transfer list him to ensure we recieve a pittance when he goes? We shouldn't have signed the contract in the first place, so aye, that one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Maybe he thinks from a religious and ethical standpoint that charging a little bit of interest is a bit wrong, but charging a lot of interest is a lot wrong? Doesn't seem to be a totally whacked out, paradoxical and absolutely illogical position to hold. It seems like the kind of position most people have on most things. barclays charge £25 for going £1 overdrawn, what rate of interest is that ? not to mention the costs we've all had to incur, barclays customers or not, for their libor rigging and tax avoidance. surely after kicking up about one sponsor it's only natural to infer that he's ok with the others. That's a fine, not a loan. EDIT: I don't know if that makes a difference in Islam like, just saying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 But isn't it natural to support the club ahead of individuals? I disagree with rapid changes of mind over players obviously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 What I don't understand from Cisse's perspective, assuming it is true that his objection to having Wonga as our shirt sponsor is religion related, is that he has less problems with passively promoting a company that performs usury (even ignoring last season's sponsor also did) than he has actively performing himself an act that is considered haram. I mean, if the club forced him to loan out his own money and charge interest on it, I could see that would be objectionable by religious terms, but we're merely asking him to wear our club gear, that happens to have a company name on it of a company that might be considered haram (again, as was last seasons'). That said, I have been in a casino once or twice before, and actually gambled a little bit of money on those occasions, but I wouldn't say that made me a gambler. I expect Cisse to fold on this point when the other lads return from Portugal. It is not in his interests to see this story continue into the new season, and I don't expect his self interest to make way for his principles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Maybe he thinks from a religious and ethical standpoint that charging a little bit of interest is a bit wrong, but charging a lot of interest is a lot wrong? Doesn't seem to be a totally whacked out, paradoxical and absolutely illogical position to hold. It seems like the kind of position most people have on most things. barclays charge £25 for going £1 overdrawn, what rate of interest is that ? not to mention the costs we've all had to incur, barclays customers or not, for their libor rigging and tax avoidance. surely after kicking up about one sponsor it's only natural to infer that he's ok with the others. That's a fine, not a loan. semantics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I honestly can't understand why their are NUFC fans on twitter outwardly sharing these photos?That photo was tweeted to Wraith, what the fuck is the point? Disagree, he obviously wants out of the club (don't really blame him)but does not have the balls to say so.. Without a doubt one of my favourite players but the way he has went about this stinks. Hope the club come out and put him up for sale. Same here. Shola has shown he's ready and willing to take up the challenge next season with his 2 goals in 2 games pre-season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 It's an avoidable situation which hasn't avoided by the club therefore it's the clubs fault...IMO. Couldn't give a shit about the intricacies of it. Our best striker is missing out on important pre-season for non-footballing reasons, as with nearly everything else to do with NUFC it's fucking embarrassing. Ok, how would you avoid it? Also it amazes me frankly that you think a guy thats being paid millions to play Football has no responsibility in sorting out a work issue. Both parties are responsible. No idea, I'm not paid to deal with such things. I'd do my utmost to sort it before it became an issue and hit the press do. I'm a supporter though, not someone out to show everyone who is boss like the nouveau rich plebs in charge of us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 For the assertions about hypocrisy - Let those who....cast the first stone etc... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 It's ironic that people want Cisse out because he's a hypocrite who won't wear a Wonga shirt, but they are drooling over the prospects of strikers who need to be dragged to the north east by bigger pay packets because they'd prefer to be in London or Paris. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 It's an avoidable situation which hasn't avoided by the club therefore it's the clubs fault...IMO. Couldn't give a shit about the intricacies of it. Our best striker is missing out on important pre-season for non-footballing reasons, as with nearly everything else to do with NUFC it's fucking embarrassing. Aye. The two obvious compromises as I see it are: 1. Allow the player to wear no logo etc, or 2. Sell the player and find a replacement in an appropriate timescale. Neither has been done. As for Cisse only raising a pittance if we accepted we had to sell him, I'm pretty sure the figure we would have received six weeks ago is roughly comparable to what we'd get now after all this anyway - neither scenario is conducive to getting the best price. The only difference is the club is suffering in the meantime. Funny, that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I'm curious as to why all of this is kicking off only just now when Wonga was announced in September of last year. To be fair it was reported almost from day one that we'd have a problem with the Muslim players over this. Cisse was consistently mentioned. Best I could find on google (from 1/9/2012 to 1/6/2013) was a few articles from the start by local clerics/imams about it, usual daily mail troublemaking although I think there was a telegraph article in there too. Nothing actually from the players themselves. And then radio silence. I reserve the right to be disappointed in him for leaving it to the 11th hour to start this. It was reported properly about Cisse having an issue with it on 11th June. It's now just about the 24th July and precisely nothing has been done about it. It could be described as the 11th hour in terms of the deal being announced last year, but there's much more to say it's just gross incompetence that this hasn't been What do we do to sort this within a guarenteed time scale then? Give him a huge pay rise to negate his beliefs? Cancel a multi million pound contract for one player? Transfer list him to ensure we recieve a pittance when he goes? We shouldn't have signed the contract in the first place, so aye, that one. Ah ok we'll just tell that to Wongas lawers and they'll understand I'm sure. Seriously what does anyone here realistically think Cisse is looking for as a solution? New contract morally makes no difference and he shouldnt get one anyway. We're legally contracted to Wonga and if Cisse wants to get away so badly why doesnt he hand in a transfer request? Because he'll lose his loyalty bonus, which he's probably hoping to earn some heavy interest on, if he doesnt gamble it first. Come on this is ludicrous. We all know Ashley and thd rest are insidious as fuck. But Cisse's actions here stink to high heaven. Its amazing that people cant see how wrong one side is simply because they hate the other side so much. Anyway I'm bored of this shit.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 It's an avoidable situation which hasn't avoided by the club therefore it's the clubs fault...IMO. Couldn't give a shit about the intricacies of it. Our best striker is missing out on important pre-season for non-footballing reasons, as with nearly everything else to do with NUFC it's fucking embarrassing. Aye. The two obvious compromises as I see it are: 1. Allow the player to wear no logo etc, or 2. Sell the player and find a replacement in an appropriate timescale. Neither has been done. As for Cisse only raising a pittance if we accepted we had to sell him, I'm pretty sure the figure we would have received six weeks ago is roughly comparable to what we'd get now after all this anyway - neither scenario is conducive to getting the best price. The only difference is the club is suffering in the meantime. Funny, that. Instead and as always we've gone for 3. Indulge in as much brinksmanship and poker-handing as possible to show how strong Ashley and the board are in now kow-towing to anyone but their own demands regardless of the wider consequences aka the team and it's viability at staying up in the PL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
henke Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Do we know if there's been any talks between Cisse and the club, or the club and Wonga in the last few days? Or are they just happy enough to let him train on his own, I have this image of Kinnear bending over with his head in a fire bucket. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I'm curious as to why all of this is kicking off only just now when Wonga was announced in September of last year. To be fair it was reported almost from day one that we'd have a problem with the Muslim players over this. Cisse was consistently mentioned. Best I could find on google (from 1/9/2012 to 1/6/2013) was a few articles from the start by local clerics/imams about it, usual daily mail troublemaking although I think there was a telegraph article in there too. Nothing actually from the players themselves. And then radio silence. I reserve the right to be disappointed in him for leaving it to the 11th hour to start this. It was reported properly about Cisse having an issue with it on 11th June. It's now just about the 24th July and precisely nothing has been done about it. It could be described as the 11th hour in terms of the deal being announced last year, but there's much more to say it's just gross incompetence that this hasn't been What do we do to sort this within a guarenteed time scale then? Give him a huge pay rise to negate his beliefs? Cancel a multi million pound contract for one player? Transfer list him to ensure we recieve a pittance when he goes? We shouldn't have signed the contract in the first place, so aye, that one. Ah ok we'll just tell that to Wongas lawers and they'll understand I'm sure. Seriously what does anyone here realistically think Cisse is looking for as a solution. New contract morally makes no difference and he shouldnt get one anyway. We're legally contracted to to Wonga and if Cisse wants to get away so badky why doesnt he hand in a transfer request? Because he'll lose his loyalty bonus, which he's probably hoping to earn some heavy interest on, if he doesnt gamble is first. Come on this is ludicrous. We all know Ashley and thd rest are insidious as fuck. But Cisses actions here stink to high heaven. Its amazing that people cant see how wrong one side is simply because they hate the other side so much. Anyway I'm bored of this shit.. How do you know he wants to get away so badly? Or are you just assuming this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 It's an avoidable situation which hasn't avoided by the club therefore it's the clubs fault...IMO. Couldn't give a shit about the intricacies of it. Our best striker is missing out on important pre-season for non-footballing reasons, as with nearly everything else to do with NUFC it's fucking embarrassing. Aye. The two obvious compromises as I see it are: 1. Allow the player to wear no logo etc, or 2. Sell the player and find a replacement in an appropriate timescale. Neither has been done. As for Cisse only raising a pittance if we accepted we had to sell him, I'm pretty sure the figure we would have received six weeks ago is roughly comparable to what we'd get now after all this anyway - neither scenario is conducive to getting the best price. The only difference is the club is suffering in the meantime. Funny, that. You make it sound so easy, we should have just pushed the sell Cisse button 6 weeks ago and had done with it. You have no idea what kind of fee we could have gotten had we effectively put Cisse on Gumtree. Nor do you know how likely a solution seemed from the talks they had with Cisse at the time. You could equally say Cisse is responsible for not simply putting in a transfer request if he's really genuine about all this. He knows theres no solution but to leave and he knew it months ago. No criticism for him there then? Saying we could allow him not to wear the logo is pie in the sky. As a club we'd effectively be advertising that Wonga are morally reprehensible every game he played, well worth the tens of millions I'm sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I'm curious as to why all of this is kicking off only just now when Wonga was announced in September of last year. To be fair it was reported almost from day one that we'd have a problem with the Muslim players over this. Cisse was consistently mentioned. Best I could find on google (from 1/9/2012 to 1/6/2013) was a few articles from the start by local clerics/imams about it, usual daily mail troublemaking although I think there was a telegraph article in there too. Nothing actually from the players themselves. And then radio silence. I reserve the right to be disappointed in him for leaving it to the 11th hour to start this. It was reported properly about Cisse having an issue with it on 11th June. It's now just about the 24th July and precisely nothing has been done about it. It could be described as the 11th hour in terms of the deal being announced last year, but there's much more to say it's just gross incompetence that this hasn't been What do we do to sort this within a guarenteed time scale then? Give him a huge pay rise to negate his beliefs? Cancel a multi million pound contract for one player? Transfer list him to ensure we recieve a pittance when he goes? We shouldn't have signed the contract in the first place, so aye, that one. Ah ok we'll just tell that to Wongas lawers and they'll understand I'm sure. Seriously what does anyone here realistically think Cisse is looking for as a solution. New contract morally makes no difference and he shouldnt get one anyway. We're legally contracted to to Wonga and if Cisse wants to get away so badky why doesnt he hand in a transfer request? Because he'll lose his loyalty bonus, which he's probably hoping to earn some heavy interest on, if he doesnt gamble is first. Come on this is ludicrous. We all know Ashley and thd rest are insidious as fuck. But Cisses actions here stink to high heaven. Its amazing that people cant see how wrong one side is simply because they hate the other side so much. Anyway I'm bored of this shit.. How do you know he wants to get away so badly? Or are you just assuming this? I didn't mean he's desperate to leave so he's using the situation to engineer a move (a bigger contract would probably sooth his morales..). What I meant was that if his mind is made up on refusing to wear the clubs sponsor then there's no other solution but to leave. Thats something he surely has to realise. So then why not just put in a transfer request? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 He may back down yet after making his point (see Kanoute), but at least he'll have stood up for what he believes in and made that point, as opposed to just wearing it without making a fuss which could be important to him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 It's an avoidable situation which hasn't avoided by the club therefore it's the clubs fault...IMO. Couldn't give a shit about the intricacies of it. Our best striker is missing out on important pre-season for non-footballing reasons, as with nearly everything else to do with NUFC it's fucking embarrassing. Aye. The two obvious compromises as I see it are: 1. Allow the player to wear no logo etc, or 2. Sell the player and find a replacement in an appropriate timescale. Neither has been done. As for Cisse only raising a pittance if we accepted we had to sell him, I'm pretty sure the figure we would have received six weeks ago is roughly comparable to what we'd get now after all this anyway - neither scenario is conducive to getting the best price. The only difference is the club is suffering in the meantime. Funny, that. You make it sound so easy, we should have just pushed the sell Cisse button 6 weeks ago and had done with it. You have no idea what kind of fee we could have gotten had we effectively put Cisse on Gumtree. Nor do you know how likely a solution seemed from the talks they had with Cisse at the time. You could equally say Cisse is responsible for not simply putting in a transfer request if he's really genuine about all this. He knows theres no solution but to leave and he knew it months ago. No criticism for him there then? Saying we could allow him not to wear the logo is pie in the sky. As a club we'd effectively be advertising that Wonga are morally reprehensible every game he played, well worth the tens of millions I'm sure. Thanks for being so condescending first of all but given this has been public knowledge for over a month I'm not sure what other options are available apart from option 3 (which you casually didn't quote). I I know as much as you but to me if club is/was clear on it being Wonga or you go why would Cisse want to stay/still be here? To me, unless it's something mad outlandish, as in real life it's up to the employer to sort it out not the employee. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I'm curious as to why all of this is kicking off only just now when Wonga was announced in September of last year. To be fair it was reported almost from day one that we'd have a problem with the Muslim players over this. Cisse was consistently mentioned. Best I could find on google (from 1/9/2012 to 1/6/2013) was a few articles from the start by local clerics/imams about it, usual daily mail troublemaking although I think there was a telegraph article in there too. Nothing actually from the players themselves. And then radio silence. I reserve the right to be disappointed in him for leaving it to the 11th hour to start this. It was reported properly about Cisse having an issue with it on 11th June. It's now just about the 24th July and precisely nothing has been done about it. It could be described as the 11th hour in terms of the deal being announced last year, but there's much more to say it's just gross incompetence that this hasn't been What do we do to sort this within a guarenteed time scale then? Give him a huge pay rise to negate his beliefs? Cancel a multi million pound contract for one player? Transfer list him to ensure we recieve a pittance when he goes? We shouldn't have signed the contract in the first place, so aye, that one. Ah ok we'll just tell that to Wongas lawers and they'll understand I'm sure. Seriously what does anyone here realistically think Cisse is looking for as a solution. New contract morally makes no difference and he shouldnt get one anyway. We're legally contracted to to Wonga and if Cisse wants to get away so badky why doesnt he hand in a transfer request? Because he'll lose his loyalty bonus, which he's probably hoping to earn some heavy interest on, if he doesnt gamble is first. Come on this is ludicrous. We all know Ashley and thd rest are insidious as fuck. But Cisses actions here stink to high heaven. Its amazing that people cant see how wrong one side is simply because they hate the other side so much. Anyway I'm bored of this shit.. How do you know he wants to get away so badly? Or are you just assuming this? I didn't mean he's desperate to leave so he's using the situation to engineer a move (a bigger contract would probably sooth his morales..). What I meant was that if his mind is made up on refusing to wear the clubs sponsor then there's no other solution but to leave. Thats something he surely has to realise. So then why not just put in a transfer request? Maybe he doesn't want to leave? A better contract like the one Benteke just got at Villa might do the trick and it would probably still be cheaper than buying Darren Bent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 He can fuck off if a new contract does sort it out like Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 He can f*** off if a new contract does sort it out like he'll be better off anyway, can't see him going to aspers for a bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest strongbow69 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 what has been said is he disagrees with wearing Wonga, conjecture that he wants an improved contract and judged on that?, wtf where did that even come from? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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