Gallowgate Toon Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 People are simply underestimating how hard it is to break a team like Stoke down, as if it's as simple as saying 'we should pass and move more'. We have a very physical team, who are brilliant on the counter attack but are lacking in the creative department at present. We have 2 genuine flair players in the squad, who can open compact defences up with close control or a pass, but one of them's out injured at present and the other has deficiencies to his game. This tiki taka talk is rubbish anyway, it's not an infallible style of play, just as we saw last week at Swansea, and you need a certain style of player to execute it. We shut Swansea down for long periods because of our physicality, Stoke did exactly the same to us yesterday, they executed their game plan very well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 People are simply underestimating how hard it is to break a team like Stoke down, as if it's as simple as saying 'we should pass and move more'. We have a very physical team, who are brilliant on the counter attack but are lacking in the creative department at present. We have 2 genuine flair players in the squad, who can open compact defences up with close control or a pass, but one of them's out injured at present and the other has deficiencies to his game. This tiki taka talk is rubbish anyway, it's not an infallible style of play, just as we saw last week at Swansea, and you need a certain style of player to execute it. We shut Swansea down for long periods because of our physicality, Stoke did exactly the same to us yesterday, they executed their game plan very well. So true, only Man U (4) Citeh and Swansea (3) and us with our 2, have scored more than one at home against Stoke all season. So I guess that means only SAF, Mancini and Laudrup have been more astute at tackling Stoke then Pardew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 They also can't win or score away from home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Interesting (well not as interesting as flinging the same stale shit at each other) that the centre backs didn't play as a LCB/RCB yesterday, instead Taylor pretty much man-marked Crouch and Yanga-Mbiwa was left to deal with the space or Jerome/Walters coming from outside/deep. Worked well too aside from 1 or 2 very slight mishaps where wires were crossed. Canny management from the wanker in the dugout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 I agree with all that, our approach is all wrong, Pardew set our team up wrong. I just don't think it was that bad. If Gouffran had scored his early chance and Tiote hadn't given away that pen we'd probably all be thinking we should have slaughtered them but it was a perfectly acceptable win. If we're talking ifs and buts, If Cisse had been offside at the end how many would be defending the performance if it only got a 1-1 draw? IMO we deserved to draw. From memory (and MOTD) it was only that Cisse shot in the 98th minute which troubled the keeper from open play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Agreed. Stoke are good at defending. And that's what they done. Our class won us the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 They also can't win or score away from home. and they didn't beat us either, they draw a lot away from home, usually 0-0 (ask Spurs and Liverpool) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Give a good manager this team, and you've got a top 6 contender on your hands. Erm... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 He got the subs right yesterday, will give his his due on that. However, we were very very poor against an absolutely woeful side, that yes go out to spoil a game but the calibre of player we have should be able to counter that. We were defensively sound I like the Taylor/MYM combo nice and physical with decent ball distribution. However, I really struggle to think of a game where we have played well, of a similar ilk to last season. Im firmly of the opinion that we tend to rely only on individuals to produce, there is no pattern of play, people don't really seem to know what they are doing off the ball. Stoke are woeful, make no mistake about that. Give a good manager this team, and you've got a top 6 contender on your hands. Who can you guarantee would do that for us ?? We've tried the manager switcheroo numerous times over the years, it's not worked yet, mind you we were top 5 last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 He got the subs right yesterday, will give his his due on that. However, we were very very poor against an absolutely woeful side, that yes go out to spoil a game but the calibre of player we have should be able to counter that. We were defensively sound I like the Taylor/MYM combo nice and physical with decent ball distribution. However, I really struggle to think of a game where we have played well, of a similar ilk to last season. Im firmly of the opinion that we tend to rely only on individuals to produce, there is no pattern of play, people don't really seem to know what they are doing off the ball. Stoke are woeful, make no mistake about that. Give a good manager this team, and you've got a top 6 contender on your hands. Who can you guarantee would do that for us ?? We've tried the manager switcheroo numerous times over the years, it's not worked yet, mind you we were top 5 last season. We were and I've given credit for that, it would be ultimately hypocritical to not. But do you honestly feel Pardew will deliver for this club? Our squad man for man is as good as any bar Manu/City/Spurs/Chelsea. I don't have a suggestion for a replacement, but that doesn't negate the points. I don't know tbh, but I absolutely do know, (outside of vast amonts of cash and maybe a Mourinho) that our managerial merry go round (since KK's first spell) hasn't worked, even our, decidedly average, "highs" over the years since were never quite as high as the highs before. I also know, if the significant groundswell on this board to get rid, had governed Man U and Everton, Ferguson and Moyes would have been fired in their third seasons in charge (finishing 13th and 17th respectively). I am quite prepared to give the bloke time, if next season starts like this one, it's a different ball game, but the signs since he actually had depth to utilise are fine by me. A new manager guarantees nothing, just look down the road at Marty's party. There's a hell of a lot more right than wrong just now IMO. Edit: BTW I've been watching this club since the mid 60's and no fucker has truly "delivered" since 1969. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 He got the subs right yesterday, will give his his due on that. However, we were very very poor against an absolutely woeful side, that yes go out to spoil a game but the calibre of player we have should be able to counter that. We were defensively sound I like the Taylor/MYM combo nice and physical with decent ball distribution. However, I really struggle to think of a game where we have played well, of a similar ilk to last season. Im firmly of the opinion that we tend to rely only on individuals to produce, there is no pattern of play, people don't really seem to know what they are doing off the ball. Stoke are woeful, make no mistake about that. Give a good manager this team, and you've got a top 6 contender on your hands. Who can you guarantee would do that for us ?? We've tried the manager switcheroo numerous times over the years, it's not worked yet, mind you we were top 5 last season. We were and I've given credit for that, it would be ultimately hypocritical to not. But do you honestly feel Pardew will deliver for this club? Our squad man for man is as good as any bar Manu/City/Spurs/Chelsea. I don't have a suggestion for a replacement, but that doesn't negate the points. I don't know tbh, but I absolutely do know, (outside of vast amonts of cash and maybe a Mourinho) that our managerial merry go round (since KK's first spell) hasn't worked, even our, decidedly average, "highs" over the years since were never quite as the high as the highs before. I also know, if the significant groundswell on this board to get rid, had governed Man U and Everton, Ferguson and Moyes would have been fired in their third seasons in charge (finishing 13th and 17th respectively). I am quite prepared to give the bloke time, if next season starts like this one, it's a different ball game, but the signs since he actually had depth to utilise are fine by me. A new manager guarantees nothing, just look down the road at Marty's party. There's a hell of a lot more right than wrong just now IMO. Fair enough mate, well made points. I agree it hasn't worked for us in the past, but that doesn't mean a new manager wouldn't deliver better results but I take your point. I do feel, and have done for a while that the overall coaching set up is stale, I'd like to see the addition of coaching staff at least, if we are to stick with the manager I actually think that the way the new players have slotted in, is under recognised as a "plus mark" for the coaching staff. Our biggest problem is the fact that (in football terms) our "turnaround" under KK (first time) was metaphorically in the blink of an eye, that lightning is unlikely to strike twice. I am quite happy to let a longer game play out to the extent that even if we'd gone down (which I don't think we will now) I'd have kept him for another year. The swaperoo has never worked, I'm quite happy to sit back chillax and wait and see what happens with a bit of stability. May work, may not, but then again nothing much has worked in my forty odd years of watching this lot, but hanging in there and being patient is actually trying something new, unheard of even. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Slippery Sam Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 It will be interesting to see us play Wigan. They wont be parking the bus in any way shape or form, so taking them on at pass and move football will be good to see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 It will be interesting to see us play Wigan. They wont be parking the bus in any way shape or form, so taking them on at pass and move football will be good to see. It'll be a draw, we're due one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc4eva Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 We have started to control games a lot more recently, keeping possession much better and cutting down so many long balls, although there were quite a few yesterday they were much better kicks from Elliott than Krul. I still wish we could go 1-0 up and go on to score a few more, at the moment it seems we concede first in every game and have to fight back from that. We need to be more ruthless up front and work harder to stretch teams but since January it has been encouraging compared to the shit that was served up prior to that. Pardew has improved with his tactics etc (Still not enough), I just hope he can start to develop the way we play for rest of season and push on next year Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 We have started to control games a lot more recently, keeping possession much better and cutting down so many long balls, although there were quite a few yesterday they were much better kicks from Elliott than Krul. I still wish we could go 1-0 up and go on to score a few more, at the moment it seems we concede first in every game and have to fight back from that. We need to be more ruthless up front and work harder to stretch teams but since January it has been encouraging compared to the s*** that was served up prior to that. Pardew has improved with his tactics etc (Still not enough), I just hope he can start to develop the way we play for rest of season and push on next year Whilst stressfull/annoying (to the watchers) I reckon the belief that gives to players is likely signficant. Every cloud and all that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 It is never easy to break down a team defending like that, especially when our main striker is not physically gifted. Pardew could do better, for sure, nut I won't say its a huge mistake not able to break them down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocker Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Getting a canny clam cleaner like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Icke - Son of God Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 We have started to control games a lot more recently, keeping possession much better and cutting down so many long balls, although there were quite a few yesterday they were much better kicks from Elliott than Krul. I still wish we could go 1-0 up and go on to score a few more, at the moment it seems we concede first in every game and have to fight back from that. We need to be more ruthless up front and work harder to stretch teams but since January it has been encouraging compared to the s*** that was served up prior to that. Pardew has improved with his tactics etc (Still not enough), I just hope he can start to develop the way we play for rest of season and push on next year Whilst stressfull/annoying (to the watchers) I reckon the belief that gives to players is likely signficant. Every cloud and all that. I think you're right. We've went from being unable to turn around a deficit to coming from behind three home league games in a row. The mindset has clearly changed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 It is never easy to break down a team defending like that, especially when our main striker is not physically gifted. Pardew could do better, for sure, nut I won't say its a huge mistake not able to break them down. That's basically how I saw it. We did try too many of the wrong things though, like crossing absolutely loads of balls into the box from wide/deep. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATB Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Agreed. Stoke are good at defending. And that's what they done. Our class won us the game. Yes, and not the team performance. Thats my main point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 It's not exactly a crime to win a football match because your good players did something good. I agree we looked disjointed in attack at times though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATB Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 It's not exactly a crime to win a football match because your good players did something good. I agree we looked disjointed in attack at times though. And my second point is that it happens to often to just be a bad day Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David28 Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 It's not exactly a crime to win a football match because your good players did something good. I agree we looked disjointed in attack at times though. Wouldn't say disjointed. The decision making sometimes was poor from the likes of Sissoko and Gouffran. Happens at every team at times. Look at Real Madrid, they sometimes can't do anything and need Ronaldo to produce the magic to get the goal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmymag Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 With the squad we have now we should imposing our game on the opposition. With Pardew it will always be safety first, stop them playing, and then see what we can do. He's out of his depth but, I'm afraid, we're lumbered with him for the forseeable future. But if I could give him one piece of advice, it's to STOP LUMPING IT! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 We didn't really set up to stop Stoke playing, they set up to stop us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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