Interpolic Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Fulham and Man City weren't exactly your average lower league managerial positions, plenty of money was being pumped in to both clubs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Fulham and Man City weren't exactly your average lower league managerial positions, plenty of money was being pumped in to both clubs. clubs on the up with plenty of money, i thought you'd been talking about getting top jobs, liverpool, man utd, arsenal etc ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Haha whatever, fucking hell. Are you sharing the same bed as Neesy this week? I'd love for us to play exciting, attacking, vibrant football that wins us trophies and plaudits. However, I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon. If we're going to have a period of cutting our cloth accordingly, I don't see why we need to make a song and dance about it every time we don't play cutting edge football. Stu, care to expand on the bits in bold, such as why you think we can't play attacking, passing football with the players we have in the squad (regardless of injuries)? Clearly i'm in the "pardew doesn't know how to coach it" camp but if it's something you yearn for, yet still retain some hope for pardew, you must think something else is holding us back again genuine question, not looking for a bite or anything Stu fancy throwing an answer at this, as i said honestly interested in your viewpoint Regardless of injuries? I think there's evidence from last season that we do try and do that when the gameplan calls for it (IMO, any team outside the top 6 at home and the bottom 8 or so away from home). The reasons why this season has been so stop-start has been well discussed (in this very thread) but suffice to say, with no Europa league to interfere with the weekly routine and a better squad (depth and quality) then a decent start will allow Pardew the confidence to gameplan like he did from March-May last season. I think this season has set him back, mentally, as he's having to deal with some of the 'negativity' that comes with a disappointing season. There was a point, Reading (h), where he was in danger of losing a lot of his support in the home crowd but he was man enough to come out and admit he made some mistakes and that he'd learnt from them. The 'purple' players (i.e. first XI) are all but here now: Krul, Santon, MYM, STaylor, Debuchy, Tiote, Cabaye, Gouffran, Sissoko, HBA, Cisse. He's then got the like of Jonas, Marveaux, Haidaira and Anita to push for places and ensure there's not the same level of complacency that we seemed to experience from September-December. With only one, maybe two, games a week we shouldn't suffer the same list of injuries and be forced into chopping and changing. That said, I think he's going to be trying to keep it very tight early on in the season (not too dissimilar to how we began this season) and make us hard to beat - once the players have the confidence and the new season beneath their feet, he's more likely to loosen up and 'gameplan' as above (rigid and disciplined at home to the Euro sides and away to all of the top half; opening up more against the non Euro teams at home and away to the struggling teams). I don't know if 'coaching' the players to attack and pass is one of Pardew's strong points, or something he considers too much; with the flair players we potentially have to pick from, there's nothing to say we can't win games by defending as a unit and breaking with 3/4 individuals (Sissoko and Gouffran have definitely helped us with this). After a player reaches 20/21, how much development can he actually do in terms of tactics or is it mostly experience which is gained at the top level? tldr; I don't think Pardew needs to necessarily coach the players on how to attack but we'll benefit from having a stronger squad and a more consistent lineup from Aug-Dec which will give Pardew the confidence to allow the flair players more freedom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Haha whatever, f***ing hell. Are you sharing the same bed as Neesy this week? I'd love for us to play exciting, attacking, vibrant football that wins us trophies and plaudits. However, I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon. If we're going to have a period of cutting our cloth accordingly, I don't see why we need to make a song and dance about it every time we don't play cutting edge football. Stu, care to expand on the bits in bold, such as why you think we can't play attacking, passing football with the players we have in the squad (regardless of injuries)? Clearly i'm in the "pardew doesn't know how to coach it" camp but if it's something you yearn for, yet still retain some hope for pardew, you must think something else is holding us back again genuine question, not looking for a bite or anything Stu fancy throwing an answer at this, as i said honestly interested in your viewpoint Regardless of injuries? I think there's evidence from last season that we do try and do that when the gameplan calls for it (IMO, any team outside the top 6 at home and the bottom 8 or so away from home). The reasons why this season has been so stop-start has been well discussed (in this very thread) but suffice to say, with no Europa league to interfere with the weekly routine and a better squad (depth and quality) then a decent start will allow Pardew the confidence to gameplan like he did from March-May last season. I think this season has set him back, mentally, as he's having to deal with some of the 'negativity' that comes with a disappointing season. There was a point, Reading (h), where he was in danger of losing a lot of his support in the home crowd but he was man enough to come out and admit he made some mistakes and that he'd learnt from them. The 'purple' players (i.e. first XI) are all but here now: Krul, Santon, MYM, STaylor, Debuchy, Tiote, Cabaye, Gouffran, Sissoko, HBA, Cisse. He's then got the like of Jonas, Marveaux, Haidaira and Anita to push for places and ensure there's not the same level of complacency that we seemed to experience from September-December. With only one, maybe two, games a week we shouldn't suffer the same list of injuries and be forced into chopping and changing. That said, I think he's going to be trying to keep it very tight early on in the season (not too dissimilar to how we began this season) and make us hard to beat - once the players have the confidence and the new season beneath their feet, he's more likely to loosen up and 'gameplan' as above (rigid and disciplined at home to the Euro sides and away to all of the top half; opening up more against the non Euro teams at home and away to the struggling teams). I don't know if 'coaching' the players to attack and pass is one of Pardew's strong points, or something he considers too much; with the flair players we potentially have to pick from, there's nothing to say we can't win games by defending as a unit and breaking with 3/4 individuals (Sissoko and Gouffran have definitely helped us with this). After a player reaches 20/21, how much development can he actually do in terms of tactics or is it mostly experience which is gained at the top level? Tl;dr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Fulham and Man City weren't exactly your average lower league managerial positions, plenty of money was being pumped in to both clubs. clubs on the up with plenty of money, i thought you'd been talking about getting top jobs, liverpool, man utd, arsenal etc ? I've barely been involved in the conversation, I made one comment that there's no reason why he couldn't have ended up somewhere like Liverpool after us. Haha whatever, fucking hell. Are you sharing the same bed as Neesy this week? What the fuck are you on about? I asked why the face and you just skipped over it. Full-on WUM Stu is back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 That's shite man, you just said "whats your problem" and then didn't explain the was aimed at the bit in bold. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I remember we were 3-2 down against Ferencvaros after the away leg of a european tie all those years ago under Keegan. At SJP he sent out a team that included Gillespie, Ginola, Beardsley, Asprilla, Lee and Ferdinand and tore them to pieces. Pretty much a front 6 putting us on the front foot and getting at them. Night and day in their approaches. yet in our next euro tie, Metz, after drawing 1-1 over there we were disjointed and sluggish till tino scored twice very late on (the night of his waving his top from the corner flag). we could esaily have gone out as they had the better of it, robert pires particularly at our place. the idea that keegan would have thrown everything to at them to get the result isn't real, the way we limped out in bilbao aswell. he gave us some great times, probably the best football i've witnessed in my time but some people like to make myths from the reality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Fulham and Man City weren't exactly your average lower league managerial positions, plenty of money was being pumped in to both clubs. clubs on the up with plenty of money, i thought you'd been talking about getting top jobs, liverpool, man utd, arsenal etc ? I've barely been involved in the conversation, I made one comment that there's no reason why he couldn't have ended up somewhere like Liverpool after us. Haha whatever, f***ing hell. Are you sharing the same bed as Neesy this week? What the f*** are you on about? I asked why the face and you just skipped over it. Full-on WUM Stu is back. likewise, i've hardly posted in here of late, just pointing out that it seems indicative the type of clubs he went to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 That's shite man, you just said "whats your problem" and then didn't explain the was aimed at the bit in bold. Obviously. Hence I asked what's your problem. Don't see what's so daft about it, he did a superb job at Newcastle and was rightly very highly regarded. The way I saw it he seemed a bit unsure about getting back in to management, took a different kind of role at Fulham, then managed them, did a good job there and moved on to England. The fact he was employed as England manager not long after us implied to me that he was seen as one of the top managers in the country when the England job meant a bit more than it does now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Fulham and Man City weren't exactly your average lower league managerial positions, plenty of money was being pumped in to both clubs. clubs on the up with plenty of money, i thought you'd been talking about getting top jobs, liverpool, man utd, arsenal etc ? I've barely been involved in the conversation, I made one comment that there's no reason why he couldn't have ended up somewhere like Liverpool after us. Haha whatever, f***ing hell. Are you sharing the same bed as Neesy this week? What the f*** are you on about? I asked why the face and you just skipped over it. Full-on WUM Stu is back. likewise, i've hardly posted in here of late, just pointing out that it seems indicative the type of clubs he went to. Yeah, I agree. Don't see how that means he couldn't have been in for a bigger job based on his achievements at Newcastle though, which is the implication I was responding to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Stu I got to tell you HTT got you there HTT posting tl;dr is the funniest thing on here yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 To be honest, one of the only half decent sides we played against under Keegan, we went 3-0 up and whether it was the players or himself, we were naive and didn't see the 90 minutes out which cost us. So Pardew's better than Keegan then That's exactly what I'm saying. I apologise. I went all Inochi on you there. I just think bringing Keegan into it is ill advised and has absolutely no relevance at all to what is being discussed. What the fuck?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Every time I open this thread someone's getting a kicking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Every time I open this thread someone's getting a kicking. Easily gone from the worst to best thread in the football part in the space of half a day or so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I really don't know why that comment has anything to do with me, man. It's class seeing my name pop up every couple of pages while I'm catching up though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Every time I open this thread someone's getting a kicking. Usually Pardew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Stu I got to tell you HTT got you there HTT posting tl;dr is the funniest thing on here yet. I don't understand, it's as if he deliberately missed the tl;dr I put on at the end... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Well he would have if he didn't read it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Well he would have if he didn't read it. This really Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I remember we were 3-2 down against Ferencvaros after the away leg of a european tie all those years ago under Keegan. At SJP he sent out a team that included Gillespie, Ginola, Beardsley, Asprilla, Lee and Ferdinand and tore them to pieces. Pretty much a front 6 putting us on the front foot and getting at them. Night and day in their approaches. What attacking players did we have available on Thursday of that ilk? Plus the back four was a lot better then, and Ferencvaros are no Benfica. You're right, night and day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Haha whatever, fucking hell. Are you sharing the same bed as Neesy this week? I'd love for us to play exciting, attacking, vibrant football that wins us trophies and plaudits. However, I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon. If we're going to have a period of cutting our cloth accordingly, I don't see why we need to make a song and dance about it every time we don't play cutting edge football. Stu, care to expand on the bits in bold, such as why you think we can't play attacking, passing football with the players we have in the squad (regardless of injuries)? Clearly i'm in the "pardew doesn't know how to coach it" camp but if it's something you yearn for, yet still retain some hope for pardew, you must think something else is holding us back again genuine question, not looking for a bite or anything Stu fancy throwing an answer at this, as i said honestly interested in your viewpoint Regardless of injuries? I think there's evidence from last season that we do try and do that when the gameplan calls for it (IMO, any team outside the top 6 at home and the bottom 8 or so away from home). The reasons why this season has been so stop-start has been well discussed (in this very thread) but suffice to say, with no Europa league to interfere with the weekly routine and a better squad (depth and quality) then a decent start will allow Pardew the confidence to gameplan like he did from March-May last season. I think this season has set him back, mentally, as he's having to deal with some of the 'negativity' that comes with a disappointing season. There was a point, Reading (h), where he was in danger of losing a lot of his support in the home crowd but he was man enough to come out and admit he made some mistakes and that he'd learnt from them. The 'purple' players (i.e. first XI) are all but here now: Krul, Santon, MYM, STaylor, Debuchy, Tiote, Cabaye, Gouffran, Sissoko, HBA, Cisse. He's then got the like of Jonas, Marveaux, Haidaira and Anita to push for places and ensure there's not the same level of complacency that we seemed to experience from September-December. With only one, maybe two, games a week we shouldn't suffer the same list of injuries and be forced into chopping and changing. That said, I think he's going to be trying to keep it very tight early on in the season (not too dissimilar to how we began this season) and make us hard to beat - once the players have the confidence and the new season beneath their feet, he's more likely to loosen up and 'gameplan' as above (rigid and disciplined at home to the Euro sides and away to all of the top half; opening up more against the non Euro teams at home and away to the struggling teams). I don't know if 'coaching' the players to attack and pass is one of Pardew's strong points, or something he considers too much; with the flair players we potentially have to pick from, there's nothing to say we can't win games by defending as a unit and breaking with 3/4 individuals (Sissoko and Gouffran have definitely helped us with this). After a player reaches 20/21, how much development can he actually do in terms of tactics or is it mostly experience which is gained at the top level? I don't think Pardew needs to necessarily coach the players on how to attack but we'll benefit from having a stronger squad and a more consistent lineup from Aug-Dec which will give Pardew the confidence to allow the flair players more freedom. so look, again this isn't a dig or anything, but it seems that your answer to "why can't we play attractive, passing football anytime soon?" is the same as mine then, pardew? as for the bold it's not about the individual surely, it's about the team...for example if you dropped mourinho into our training ground monday i think you'd see a fairly rapid turnaround in how we approach games tactically as for the bit in italics you get the feeling they'd just benefit from playing 5-a-side for a chunk of the week, they literally look like they don't know how to pass the ball to each other at times...but this is certainly old ground, i agree....it's just aggravating to me that when you look at our side they seem built to be a possession team yet are obviously being coached not to be Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 the way we limped out in bilbao aswell. he gave us some great times, probably the best football i've witnessed in my time but some people like to make myths from the reality. Do you think that was due to Keegan's tactics or did the players shit themselves and panic ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I remember we were 3-2 down against Ferencvaros after the away leg of a european tie all those years ago under Keegan. At SJP he sent out a team that included Gillespie, Ginola, Beardsley, Asprilla, Lee and Ferdinand and tore them to pieces. Pretty much a front 6 putting us on the front foot and getting at them. Night and day in their approaches. What attacking players did we have available on Thursday of that ilk? Plus the back four was a lot better then, and Ferencvaros are no Benfica. You're right, night and day. I probably shouldn't have mentioned KK I just happened to have watched the highlights of that game minutes before posting. It was meant to illustrate the differences in their approach. You could pick a bunch of managers and make the same comparison, Laudrup, Martinez, Adkins, Rodgers etc etc. They set their teams up to attack and try to impose their game on the opposition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 We set up to contain and try to impose our contain on the opposition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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