Alan Pardew

[littlelunchbox]

I think it's very naive to believe that the players are playing it long against the manager's instructions and simply because they're incompetent.

 

Cabaye and Colo both play significantly more long balls than Williamson and Simpson for a start, which I have been saying for months and months. It's clearly the way the manager wants to play, with the intention that the ball gets to our dangerous players as soon as possible and no-one's in any danger of being caught out of position.

 

Where is this from btw?

 

Simpson plays alot of long balls,  but yes i agree i would include Cabaye and Colo as well. 

 

 

[oldtype]

I highly doubt that any manager specifically instructs his players to "always play it long" or "always play it short." (Okay, there might be a couple exceptions...)

 

There's no question Pardew does prefer a direct style as his primary mode of attack, but that doesn't mean that he tells the players to always hit it up to Demba even if there's an easy pass 5~6 yards away. We'll be set up to primarily exploit longer passes, but the players should also be ready to take opportunities to bring it up from deep when possible.

 

A lot of our strength last year was our ability to mix it up. We were primarily focused on being solid defensively and relying on getting it up to the final third quickly for our attacking players, but when space was there, we had the capability to set up deeper, more gradual attacks. This made it difficult for the opposition to stifle us by adapting to a singular mode of play.

 

This year it's all Plan A and no Plan B. As far as I'm concerned that's down to the players who had previously been responsible to the transition phase of our less direct attacks being horrendously out of form. Not because the tactical instructions have changed.

[johnnypd]

I think there's a bit of a "Chicken/Egg" problem with the whole "only plays long balls" thing.

 

I sincerely doubt that the players are specifically instructed to hoof it long. I think it's just that a lot of our less talented players end up reverting to that because overall movement off the ball is extremely poor so there's rarely an easy pass to pick out.

 

The fundamental problem is a lack of movement and understanding between the players, everything stems from that.

 

I think Pardew absolutely does tell them to play it long, in fact he's been seen screaming at the players to do so on the touchlines in recent games. This may happen more in the 2nd half when we are chasing a game but every minute of the 90 counts.

 

And if you look back at the times when we had Best in the side along Ba - we used to hit it to his head at the earliest opportunity, and then you look at our pursuit of Carroll and De Jong - all clear signs that Pardew is a long ball merchant and wants his sides to play that way. The fact we are pumping direct aerial passes to Cisse of all people proves that long-ball is our default option and has been drummed into our players over the past season or so, whether it happens to be an appropriate strategy or not (not, in our case).

 

The stats show that we play a higher percentage of long balls than any other side in the league - even Stoke and West Ham. That's no accident or coincidence.

 

Of course what you point out also plays a part - albeit indirectly. Pardew's reluctance to use training time to build a team ethos or identity based on movement, passing etc will also result in players uncomfortable on the ball and limited passing options.

 

The problem is that this strategy of working on OUR style of play regardless of the opposition is the only way out for him imo- he has to give up, or at least curtail, some of the strategies that brought success last season because this isn't last season. we have players out of form, lacking confidence, tired after last season's exertions, teams more clued up on us and of course the extra games midweek which have thrown Pardew's usually meticulous preparations into total disarray (judging by how we start games).

 

Thing is this seems to be what has happened at his previous clubs as well - his style of management just seems to lose steam after a while. What's more - recent quotes suggest that far from tinkering with things, freshening up or trying something new, Pardew is more focused on doubling his resolve and sticking to his guns - conservative, safety first, hoofball. And maybe this will start yielding results in a few weeks or in the New Year, but I don't think it is a blueprint for any sort of long term evolution.

[Gallowgate Toon]

But the signs were creeping through that the tactics weren't working last year too, until 'that' run. He was getting criticism around February time for consecutive poor performances and results.

 

I think we got something like 17 points from 17 games?

[Wullie]

I think it's very naive to believe that the players are playing it long against the manager's instructions and simply because they're incompetent.

 

Cabaye and Colo both play significantly more long balls than Williamson and Simpson for a start, which I have been saying for months and months. It's clearly the way the manager wants to play, with the intention that the ball gets to our dangerous players as soon as possible and no-one's in any danger of being caught out of position.

 

Where is this from btw?

 

http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/23/Show/England-Newcastle-United via Opta.

[Spudil]

I think there's a bit of a "Chicken/Egg" problem with the whole "only plays long balls" thing.

 

I sincerely doubt that the players are specifically instructed to hoof it long. I think it's just that a lot of our less talented players end up reverting to that because overall movement off the ball is extremely poor so there's rarely an easy pass to pick out.

 

The fundamental problem is a lack of movement and understanding between the players, everything stems from that.

 

I think Pardew absolutely does tell them to play it long, in fact he's been seen screaming at the players to do so on the touchlines in recent games. This may happen more in the 2nd half when we are chasing a game but every minute of the 90 counts.

 

And if you look back at the times when we had Best in the side along Ba - we used to hit it to his head at the earliest opportunity, and then you look at our pursuit of Carroll and De Jong - all clear signs that Pardew is a long ball merchant and wants his sides to play that way. The fact we are pumping direct aerial passes to Cisse of all people proves that long-ball is our default option and has been drummed into our players over the past season or so, whether it happens to be an appropriate strategy or not (not, in our case).

 

The stats show that we play a higher percentage of long balls than any other side in the league - even Stoke and West Ham. That's no accident or coincidence.

 

Of course what you point out also plays a part - albeit indirectly. Pardew's reluctance to use training time to build a team ethos or identity based on movement, passing etc will also result in players uncomfortable on the ball and limited passing options.

 

The problem is that this strategy of working on OUR style of play regardless of the opposition is the only way out for him imo- he has to give up, or at least curtail, some of the strategies that brought success last season because this isn't last season. we have players out of form, lacking confidence, tired after last season's exertions, teams more clued up on us and of course the extra games midweek which have thrown Pardew's usually meticulous preparations into total disarray (judging by how we start games).

 

Thing is this seems to be what has happened at his previous clubs as well - his style of management just seems to lose steam after a while. What's more - recent quotes suggest that far from tinkering with things, freshening up or trying something new, Pardew is more focused on doubling his resolve and sticking to his guns - conservative, safety first, hoofball. And maybe this will start yielding results in a few weeks or in the New Year, but I don't think it is a blueprint for any sort of long term evolution.

 

Aye,  that some people try and blame Simpson and Willo for the fact that we play the most long balls in the league is quite something really 

[Guest icemanblue]

I don't get it. What are we complaining about? Is it purely an aesthetics thing? Or, is it results driven?

 

The thing is Inochi, IMO (and maybe this is where we diverge in footballing philosophy terms ), results eventually follow performances. It may take five games, it may take ten, it may take forty-eight () but a failure to address our inability/unwillingness to control games - particularly against weaker opposition (the Norwichs, QPRs, Wolves, Blackburns etc) will begin to effect results too, because any streak of results which isn't driven by performance is very, very vulnerable to a loss of momentum*.

 

I fear for our immediate future.

 

[* - except for those teams who wholeheartedly and unashamedly commit to grinding - ie. Stoke, who consequently also have a glass ceiling on how good they can ever be - something we do not want]

 

Within reason, I just like to see us winning games and being successful. It's likely because of this that I'm not overly concerned with the particulars of last season. I don't particularly fear for our future, because the evidence is there, from our past, that we are well equipped to perform admirably in this league. I expect results and performances to improve. I do worry, however, that some will never be happy.

 

Agree that some will never be happy. Think most would be if we fulfilled our potential.

 

What is our potential? With our current squad, that is.

 

First XI - challenging for top 5/6

Squad - challenging for top 10

 

I'm a little less inclined than Disco to ascribe definitive league placings to the squad's potential (far too many variables inside the squad and in the league etc ) but I'd say we have the platform (in terms of personnel/resource) to become a top 8 stalwart and a dark horse for cups.

 

That can still happen though, yeah?

[oldtype]

I think it's very naive to believe that the players are playing it long against the manager's instructions and simply because they're incompetent.

 

Cabaye and Colo both play significantly more long balls than Williamson and Simpson for a start, which I have been saying for months and months. It's clearly the way the manager wants to play, with the intention that the ball gets to our dangerous players as soon as possible and no-one's in any danger of being caught out of position.

 

Where is this from btw?

 

http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/23/Show/England-Newcastle-United via Opta.

 

I admittedly haven't done the math, but you'd assume that Cabaye plays significantly more long passes because he plays significantly more passes period.

[Wullie]

I think it's very naive to believe that the players are playing it long against the manager's instructions and simply because they're incompetent.

 

Cabaye and Colo both play significantly more long balls than Williamson and Simpson for a start, which I have been saying for months and months. It's clearly the way the manager wants to play, with the intention that the ball gets to our dangerous players as soon as possible and no-one's in any danger of being caught out of position.

 

Where is this from btw?

 

http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/23/Show/England-Newcastle-United via Opta.

 

I admittedly haven't done the math, but you'd assume that Cabaye plays significantly more long passes because he plays significantly more passes period.

 

It's average per game, although it's actually "accurate long passes per game" which may skew the figures somewhat in favour of Cabaye playing more as he's more likely to find his man. They show we play a fair amount more than anyone else, both as a percentage of our total passes and in general.

[oldtype]

I think it's very naive to believe that the players are playing it long against the manager's instructions and simply because they're incompetent.

 

Cabaye and Colo both play significantly more long balls than Williamson and Simpson for a start, which I have been saying for months and months. It's clearly the way the manager wants to play, with the intention that the ball gets to our dangerous players as soon as possible and no-one's in any danger of being caught out of position.

 

Where is this from btw?

 

http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/23/Show/England-Newcastle-United via Opta.

 

I admittedly haven't done the math, but you'd assume that Cabaye plays significantly more long passes because he plays significantly more passes period.

 

It's average per game, although it's actually "accurate long passes per game" which may skew the figures somewhat in favour of Cabaye playing more as he's more likely to find his man. They show we play a fair amount more than anyone else, both as a percentage of our total passes and in general.

 

What I mean is Cabaye plays 45.9 passes per game while say... Williamson only plays 32.5, so obviously Cabaye's long passes would be higher than Williamson for that reason, regardless of whether we're going by total or per game.

 

Just briefly doing the math, Cabaye comes out as about 20.47% long passes as a proportion of total passes. Williamson is 19.61%, Colo 21.5%, Simpson 20.54%.

 

I doubt any of those differences are statistically significant.

[Hanshithispantz]

Long passes also aren't necessarily hoofs either. Cabaye switching it wide would be classed in the same bracket as Williamson aimlessly toe punting the ball the width of the east stand.

[oldtype]

Long passes also aren't necessarily hoofs either. Cabaye switching it wide would be classed in the same bracket as Williamson aimlessly toe punting the ball the width of the east stand.

 

Also, a short pass for Williamson could be passing it back meaninglessly to Krul, while most of Cabaye's short passes would probably be contested.

[Jack Flash]

DEATH TO PROZONE.

[oldtype]

It's really hard to make any sort of meaningful statistical argument about football. Too many moving parts.

[Jagten]

I've said previously that we lack a coherent identity. Pardew must now define us; we are either a fluid passing side in a 4-3-3 or a direct, aggressive team in a 4-4-2. Pursuing both Carroll and Anita over the summer was somewhat baffling - and it is this inner conflict that continues to hinder us. A conflict that is represented by Pardew's stubborn determination in pursuing a strike pairing that will never function. We are a team selected through fear of both the opposition and upsetting our most valuable assets, which leaves us lost and a bit rubbish.

[Jack Flash]

It's really hard to make any sort of meaningful statistical argument about football. Too many moving parts.

 

Indeed. It might be a myth but apparently Schmeichel once spent 90 mins running back and forward during a game just to prove how pointless it all is.

 

Though the geeky stats talk makes me think of this http://i.imgur.com/D6uUr.jpg so it's not all bad.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

It's really hard to make any sort of meaningful statistical argument about football. Too many moving parts.

 

Indeed. It might be a myth but apparently Schmeichel once spent 90 mins running back and forward during a game just to prove how pointless it all is.

 

Though the geeky stats talk makes me think of this http://i.imgur.com/D6uUr.jpg so it's not all bad.

 

I don't think it's pointless, it's just hard and needs to be detailed. I would hope the pros wouldn't rely on short v long passes, they would sort them into better categories first (progressive, defensive, under pressure etc). Dunno like.

[Guest neesy111]

It's really hard to make any sort of meaningful statistical argument about football. Too many moving parts.

 

Pardew is a manager that use's statistics though

[Dan Gleebals]

If thats the case, he would not be spouting so much shit.  Statistically we have been shit, end of.

[captainhaircut]

Re this long passes thing against Cabaye.

 

Surely his pass to Ba against the Mackems would be counted as a 'long pass' by a machine?

[Parky]

Also at West Ham i may be wrong here but i'm pretty sure towards the end of his tenure that the owner was getting involved with first team affairs and undermining Pardew.

 

None the less it's way to early to be taking about this, does he need to up his game? without a doubt he doesn't have a clue tactically at the moment but he's obviously earned some time to sort it out.

 

The supporters at West Ham hated his style. The long balls to the likes of Cole and Harewood. Tevez and Masch benched cause he had a huff with them. THOSE are FACTS.

 

Reminded me of those games where he preferred Obertan to Hatem (Obertan is the only player he had a hand in recruiting btw). If you remember Hatem had to play miracle football when he got his chance to stay in the side. I mean he had to perform like Maradona and then the supporters started calling for him every game. Honestly it felt like touch and go if he'd every get into Pards good books or be discarded. I remember it well.

[Elliottman]

Also at West Ham i may be wrong here but i'm pretty sure towards the end of his tenure that the owner was getting involved with first team affairs and undermining Pardew.

 

None the less it's way to early to be taking about this, does he need to up his game? without a doubt he doesn't have a clue tactically at the moment but he's obviously earned some time to sort it out.

 

The supporters at West Ham hated his style. The long balls to the likes of Cole and Harewood. Tevez and Masch benched cause he had a huff with them. THOSE are FACTS.

 

Reminded me of those games where he preferred Obertan to Hatem (Obertan is the only player he had a hand in recruiting btw). If you remember Hatem had to play miracle football when he got his chance to stay in the side. I mean he had to perform like Maradona and then the supporters started calling for him every game. Honestly it felt like touch and go if he'd every get into Pards good books or be discarded. I remember it well.

 

Pretty sure it was Curbishley who benched Tevez no?

[binnsy]

Also at West Ham i may be wrong here but i'm pretty sure towards the end of his tenure that the owner was getting involved with first team affairs and undermining Pardew.

 

None the less it's way to early to be taking about this, does he need to up his game? without a doubt he doesn't have a clue tactically at the moment but he's obviously earned some time to sort it out.

 

The supporters at West Ham hated his style. The long balls to the likes of Cole and Harewood. Tevez and Masch benched cause he had a huff with them. THOSE are FACTS.

 

Reminded me of those games where he preferred Obertan to Hatem (Obertan is the only player he had a hand in recruiting btw). If you remember Hatem had to play miracle football when he got his chance to stay in the side. I mean he had to perform like Maradona and then the supporters started calling for him every game. Honestly it felt like touch and go if he'd every get into Pards good books or be discarded. I remember it well.

 

No he didn't have to play like Maradona,  Hatem had to get match fit after missing a year of football after a broken leg and also learn that if he wanted to be in the team he would have to fit into the "team work ethic".  Pardew handled HBA brilliantly last season and has probably made him a better player if you've listened or heard any of Hatems interviews he says the same.

[Parky]

I don't get it. What are we complaining about? Is it purely an aesthetics thing? Or, is it results driven?

 

The thing is Inochi, IMO (and maybe this is where we diverge in footballing philosophy terms ), results eventually follow performances. It may take five games, it may take ten, it may take forty-eight () but a failure to address our inability/unwillingness to control games - particularly against weaker opposition (the Norwichs, QPRs, Wolves, Blackburns etc) will begin to effect results too, because any streak of results which isn't driven by performance is very, very vulnerable to a loss of momentum*.

 

I fear for our immediate future.

 

[* - except for those teams who wholeheartedly and unashamedly commit to grinding - ie. Stoke, who consequently also have a glass ceiling on how good they can ever be - something we do not want]

 

Totally agree. We got a result too many times last year just holding on and playing percentage football. In this league that will only get you so far. One or two key players start to underperform and poof it's all over. Think also the players are beginning to wonder what's going on.

[Greg]

Also at West Ham i may be wrong here but i'm pretty sure towards the end of his tenure that the owner was getting involved with first team affairs and undermining Pardew.

 

None the less it's way to early to be taking about this, does he need to up his game? without a doubt he doesn't have a clue tactically at the moment but he's obviously earned some time to sort it out.

 

The supporters at West Ham hated his style. The long balls to the likes of Cole and Harewood. Tevez and Masch benched cause he had a huff with them. THOSE are FACTS.

 

Reminded me of those games where he preferred Obertan to Hatem (Obertan is the only player he had a hand in recruiting btw). If you remember Hatem had to play miracle football when he got his chance to stay in the side. I mean he had to perform like Maradona and then the supporters started calling for him every game. Honestly it felt like touch and go if he'd every get into Pards good books or be discarded. I remember it well.

 

Pretty sure it was Curbishley who benched Tevez no?

 

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/10/14/article-0-013EAD82000004B0-24_468x298.jpg