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The thread about how we should play

ATB

by ATB
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Mole_Toonfan

Mole_Toonfan

Posted
Posted

Didn't play either tonight :memelol:

 

I've always assumed '4-3-3' was more of a blanket term on here for anything other than flat 4-4-2.

 

:thup: last season during that run it was always seemed more of a 4-2-3-1 or 4-2-1-3 Cabaye's role was exactly same as Marveaux's was tonight.

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madras

madras

Posted
Posted

Didn't play either tonight :memelol:

We played 4-3-3 tonight, no?

 

No.

Fairly sure we did, like.

 

      Tiote

Anita - Marveaux

Cisse - Ba - Jonas

wouldn't that be a 4-1-2-3 ?

 

what i saw was a 4-1-2-2. haven't the foggiest where or what joans was supposed to be doing so haven't included him.

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Tiresias

Tiresias

Posted
Posted

Interested in what people's formations would be with everyone fit but on most up to date form

 

                    Krul

 

Simpson    Saylor    Colo    Santon

 

            Anita    Bigi

 

    HBA      Cabaye    Marv

 

                  Ba

 

probably, simpson out of place and Bigi is prefered to tiote leaving us lacking much physicality in that area but that side does make me drool right now. Doubt some will maintain form tho

 

                 

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Mole_Toonfan

Mole_Toonfan

Posted
Posted

You can't pick Bigi ahead of Tiote. :lol:

 

Aye as it stands it's definitely Anita-Tiote for me with Marv ahead of them at least until Cabaye is back anyway.

 

Love Bigi to bits though although i'm unsure what his position is yet as he seems to excel in quite a few different roles.

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AlanSkÃrare

AlanSkÃrare

Posted
Posted

Even Pardew says Bigi shouldn't be playing. He's very raw, we've seen that on several occasions now.

 

I think Anita-Tioté-Marveaux has very good potential. Bigi looks as if he's a good replacement for Anita rather than Tioté. I think Perch is Tioté's best back-up. He has the aggression and physicallity to win the battle. Bigi's more of a technical, dynamic player.

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  • 4 weeks later...
Unbelievable

Unbelievable

Posted
Posted

Well, at least we're more entertaining for the neutral viewers..

 

In all seriousness, whilst we look a damn sight more dangerous and attractive going forward in a 433/451 for some reason we also are considerably more vulnerable defensively, despite what some people say. Personally I think it is worth persevering with as a tactical setup (although not with a striker shoehorned in a wide position), but for it to work long term it needs better defenders first and foremost, Tiote (or defensive midfield replacement) to focus on his defensive role and hard working wide players that track back when the opposition full back likes to get forward. It's not just a matter of simply organising the frontline differently, it requires a transformation to our entire team dynamics. For all the flack Pardew gets lately, I think he has been badly let down by Ashley & co this summer in terms of not getting the defensive reinforcements he wanted and has massively overachieved last season, mainly thanks to giving our mediocre defenders as much protection as possible. It may have been negative, but at least it was effective. Discuss.

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Cronky

Cronky

Posted
Posted

Well, at least we're more entertaining for the neutral viewers..

 

In all seriousness, whilst we look a damn sight more dangerous and attractive going forward in a 433/451 for some reason we also are considerably more vulnerable defensively, despite what some people say. Personally I think it is worth persevering with as a tactical setup (although not with a striker shoehorned in a wide position), but for it to work long term it needs better defenders first and foremost, Tiote (or defensive midfield replacement) to focus on his defensive role and hard working wide players that track back when the opposition full back likes to get forward. It's not just a matter of simply organising the frontline differently, it requires a transformation to our entire team dynamics. For all the flack Pardew gets lately, I think he has been badly let down by Ashley & co this summer in terms of not getting the defensive reinforcements he wanted and has massively overachieved last season, mainly thanks to giving our mediocre defenders as much protection as possible. It may have been negative, but at least it was effective. Discuss.

 

In my distant and somewhat modest playing days, everyone played 4-4-2, so my knowledge of the finer points of 4-3-3 is limited.

 

However, the theoretical problem that occurs to me is who protects the full back. In 4-4-2, it's obvious. In 4-3-3, is it the job of the wide midfield player, or the wide attacking player, or are they expected to sort it out between them?

 

Genuine question. It does look to me like far more often now, our full backs are being exposed one-on-one.

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madras

madras

Posted
Posted

Well, at least we're more entertaining for the neutral viewers..

 

In all seriousness, whilst we look a damn sight more dangerous and attractive going forward in a 433/451 for some reason we also are considerably more vulnerable defensively, despite what some people say. Personally I think it is worth persevering with as a tactical setup (although not with a striker shoehorned in a wide position), but for it to work long term it needs better defenders first and foremost, Tiote (or defensive midfield replacement) to focus on his defensive role and hard working wide players that track back when the opposition full back likes to get forward. It's not just a matter of simply organising the frontline differently, it requires a transformation to our entire team dynamics. For all the flack Pardew gets lately, I think he has been badly let down by Ashley & co this summer in terms of not getting the defensive reinforcements he wanted and has massively overachieved last season, mainly thanks to giving our mediocre defenders as much protection as possible. It may have been negative, but at least it was effective. Discuss.

 

In my distant and somewhat modest playing days, everyone played 4-4-2, so my knowledge of the finer points of 4-3-3 is limited.

 

However, the theoretical problem that occurs to me is who protects the full back. In 4-4-2, it's obvious. In 4-3-3, is it the job of the wide midfield player, or the wide attacking player, or are they expected to sort it out between them?

 

Genuine question. It does look to me like far more often now, our full backs are being exposed one-on-one.

when out of possession most 4-4-2's and 4-3-3's become 4-5-1 anyway.
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AlanSkÃrare

AlanSkÃrare

Posted
Posted

Well, at least we're more entertaining for the neutral viewers..

 

In all seriousness, whilst we look a damn sight more dangerous and attractive going forward in a 433/451 for some reason we also are considerably more vulnerable defensively, despite what some people say. Personally I think it is worth persevering with as a tactical setup (although not with a striker shoehorned in a wide position), but for it to work long term it needs better defenders first and foremost, Tiote (or defensive midfield replacement) to focus on his defensive role and hard working wide players that track back when the opposition full back likes to get forward. It's not just a matter of simply organising the frontline differently, it requires a transformation to our entire team dynamics. For all the flack Pardew gets lately, I think he has been badly let down by Ashley & co this summer in terms of not getting the defensive reinforcements he wanted and has massively overachieved last season, mainly thanks to giving our mediocre defenders as much protection as possible. It may have been negative, but at least it was effective. Discuss.

 

I think playing like we did in the first half yesterday is what this philosophy/approach/system/whatever should be all about. Defending through possession. We need to stand better prepared for counter-attacks, something we haven't been exposed to that much  over the past season or two because of our defensive and considerably deeper set-up.

 

The problems of keeping a coherent defensive line has been exsposed, with only Coloccini capable of thinking in that dimension.

 

However, we also need quicker players. Anita in midfield is closing down and shutting down space for his opponent really well, in the same manner we used to see Cheick do last season. His role in this system has to be the out-and-out ball winner, sitting in front of the back four and protecting them without any restrictions. His performance yesterday was so different from the one he gave us last season at the Emirates, and the season before. He ate them alive on those occasions, looks like he's being held back by this "don't get booked" stuff.

 

This system needs to be kept, we have the players to play it going forward. We need to learn another defensive approach and the players need to gain more experience while we need players more comfortable on the ball.

 

These past games have given me hope about Pardew again. Like Dave said in another thread, I'm absolutely scared to death that he'll reflect upon these games as games where we were too exposed and now revert back to the old formation and system. But he spoke about having to control possession better to move forward and how we need new players in order to do that. Clearly wasn't given them, even though Anita fits in perfect. Someone like Debuchy and a proper ball playing more physical player to step in along Coloccini would be a start. I'm not saying Mats Hummels, but someone like him.

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