Tooj Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Not worried at all.. both are mobile intelligent strikers both speak the same lingo both can play and score goals together, I would be more worried about the lack of ability we have to find a system/style of play to suit both. Playing one out wide and one central does not work IMO but if we played a 4-3-1-2 with Benny as the 1 & Ba & Cisse as the 2 then we could really see them gel. It did last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Not worried at all.. both are mobile intelligent strikers both speak the same lingo both can play and score goals together, I would be more worried about the lack of ability we have to find a system/style of play to suit both. Playing one out wide and one central does not work IMO but if we played a 4-3-1-2 with Benny as the 1 & Ba & Cisse as the 2 then we could really see them gel. It did last season. Cisse was bang in form Ba was bang out of form when we played that way, this time around its Cisse out wide right and Ba in the middle. Can't see them forging a great partnership with so much space between them, happy strikers are more likely to score goals and this is why Pards has not shoved Ba wide left and played Cisse central as he did last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Not worried at all.. both are mobile intelligent strikers both speak the same lingo both can play and score goals together, I would be more worried about the lack of ability we have to find a system/style of play to suit both. Playing one out wide and one central does not work IMO but if we played a 4-3-1-2 with Benny as the 1 & Ba & Cisse as the 2 then we could really see them gel. It did last season. Cisse was bang in form Ba was bang out of form when we played that way, this time around its Cisse out wide right and Ba in the middle. Can't see them forging a great partnership with so much space between them, happy strikers are more likely to score goals and this is why Pards has not shoved Ba wide left and played Cisse central as he did last season. Yet the team performs better in a 4-3-3. I'd rather we were playing better as a team than keeping a player happy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Not worried at all.. both are mobile intelligent strikers both speak the same lingo both can play and score goals together, I would be more worried about the lack of ability we have to find a system/style of play to suit both. Playing one out wide and one central does not work IMO but if we played a 4-3-1-2 with Benny as the 1 & Ba & Cisse as the 2 then we could really see them gel. I'm not sure they are a natural partnership, but I agree it's not really the major problem. They are both good strikers who most teams would give their right arms for. We have some major forward talent and it shouldn't be too much of a problem getting goals from these two along with Ben Arfa. In fact all have scored regularly, often from very little service provided. It just needs good management IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Not worried at all.. both are mobile intelligent strikers both speak the same lingo both can play and score goals together, I would be more worried about the lack of ability we have to find a system/style of play to suit both. Playing one out wide and one central does not work IMO but if we played a 4-3-1-2 with Benny as the 1 & Ba & Cisse as the 2 then we could really see them gel. It did last season. Cisse was bang in form Ba was bang out of form when we played that way, this time around its Cisse out wide right and Ba in the middle. Can't see them forging a great partnership with so much space between them, happy strikers are more likely to score goals and this is why Pards has not shoved Ba wide left and played Cisse central as he did last season. Yet the team performs better in a 4-3-3. I'd rather we were playing better as a team than keeping a player happy. I agree but Ba is scoring so no way he will be played wide left Cisse is wasted wide right but dropping Cisse won't get him scoring. Only change I want is Benny central behind ba & Cisse. ------------------Krul Anita-------Tayls-------Colo--------Santon -------Cab--------Tiote-------Jonas------- -------------------Benny -----------Cisse--------------Ba Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 There's not enough width in that formation for it to work though. Put Cisse on the left and have him and Ba interchange like they did last season. Simple really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Not worried at all.. both are mobile intelligent strikers both speak the same lingo both can play and score goals together, I would be more worried about the lack of ability we have to find a system/style of play to suit both. Playing one out wide and one central does not work IMO but if we played a 4-3-1-2 with Benny as the 1 & Ba & Cisse as the 2 then we could really see them gel. It did last season. It completely nullified our most inform player for 4 months. Same as it's doing this season with our most inform player from the last 4 months of last season. Neither players are wingers and it shows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Not worried at all.. both are mobile intelligent strikers both speak the same lingo both can play and score goals together, I would be more worried about the lack of ability we have to find a system/style of play to suit both. Playing one out wide and one central does not work IMO but if we played a 4-3-1-2 with Benny as the 1 & Ba & Cisse as the 2 then we could really see them gel. It did last season. It completely nullified our most inform player for 4 months. Same as it's doing this season with our most inform player from the last 4 months of last season. Neither players are wingers and it shows. Yet the team played it's best football for years. Also it far from nullified Ba, his form seemed to drop in front of goal as he was missing chances that he'd put away with ease a few months before hand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 There's not enough width in that formation for it to work though. Put Cisse on the left and have him and Ba interchange like they did last season. Simple really. If we had a proper LB it Could have enough width Santon----Tayls-----Colo-----left footed LB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Ba and Cisse is said by the same people that say Eggs and Bacon; Savages. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Not worried at all.. both are mobile intelligent strikers both speak the same lingo both can play and score goals together, I would be more worried about the lack of ability we have to find a system/style of play to suit both. Playing one out wide and one central does not work IMO but if we played a 4-3-1-2 with Benny as the 1 & Ba & Cisse as the 2 then we could really see them gel. It did last season. It completely nullified our most inform player for 4 months. Same as it's doing this season with our most inform player from the last 4 months of last season. Neither players are wingers and it shows. Yet the team played it's best football for years. Also it far from nullified Ba, his form seemed to drop in front of goal as he was missing chances that he'd put away with ease a few months before hand. We did very well in 6 or 7 games but we had some awful results/performances in that time too. Tottenham, Wolves, Wigan and Everton spring to mind and plenty this season. It does nullify the wide striker to a large extent. Why has the wide striker not scored in about 20 games? Some say that's a freak stat and others say it's a problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Not worried at all.. both are mobile intelligent strikers both speak the same lingo both can play and score goals together, I would be more worried about the lack of ability we have to find a system/style of play to suit both. Playing one out wide and one central does not work IMO but if we played a 4-3-1-2 with Benny as the 1 & Ba & Cisse as the 2 then we could really see them gel. It did last season. Cisse was bang in form Ba was bang out of form when we played that way, this time around its Cisse out wide right and Ba in the middle. Can't see them forging a great partnership with so much space between them, happy strikers are more likely to score goals and this is why Pards has not shoved Ba wide left and played Cisse central as he did last season. Ba wasn't bang out of form man, he played well and got plenty of chances, he just missed them all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 We never played 4-3-3 against Spurs or Wolves and only changed to that formation at half-time against Everton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Ba was just absolutely knackered at the end of last season. The same will happen this campaign, by the way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Even if we accept that they don't work well together when they play up front, why do they need to play together anyway? There are plenty of games, why not rotate now and again and play with one up front depending on the opposition and our fixture list? Again, for me it's a management issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Not worried at all.. both are mobile intelligent strikers both speak the same lingo both can play and score goals together, I would be more worried about the lack of ability we have to find a system/style of play to suit both. Playing one out wide and one central does not work IMO but if we played a 4-3-1-2 with Benny as the 1 & Ba & Cisse as the 2 then we could really see them gel. It did last season. Cisse was bang in form Ba was bang out of form when we played that way, this time around its Cisse out wide right and Ba in the middle. Can't see them forging a great partnership with so much space between them, happy strikers are more likely to score goals and this is why Pards has not shoved Ba wide left and played Cisse central as he did last season. Ba wasn't bang out of form man, he played well and got plenty of chances, he just missed them all. An if form Ba would have taken the chances he had, I agree he had many but he was also unhappy at playing out there why risk causing issues with our inform striker by sticking him on the wing? Sure Pards is seeing it that way and is why he has left Ba central Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Not worried at all.. both are mobile intelligent strikers both speak the same lingo both can play and score goals together, I would be more worried about the lack of ability we have to find a system/style of play to suit both. Playing one out wide and one central does not work IMO but if we played a 4-3-1-2 with Benny as the 1 & Ba & Cisse as the 2 then we could really see them gel. It did last season. Cisse was bang in form Ba was bang out of form when we played that way, this time around its Cisse out wide right and Ba in the middle. Can't see them forging a great partnership with so much space between them, happy strikers are more likely to score goals and this is why Pards has not shoved Ba wide left and played Cisse central as he did last season. Ba wasn't bang out of form man, he played well and got plenty of chances, he just missed them all. An if form Ba would have taken the chances he had, I agree he had many but he was also unhappy at playing out there why risk causing issues with our inform striker by sticking him on the wing? Sure Pards is seeing it that way and is why he has left Ba central the obvious answer to that is so we can play some football and win some points Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I think if there's ever a time when you need to work out how to get a pairing to work up front, it's not going to work. For me it's like this; Cisse is a lone wolf and works much better when he has the full width of the pitch to work with and players behind him picking out his runs. Ba works well with a player than can either hold it up or flick it onto his runs from deep (ie Shola and Best when he was here) As far as I can see we've only really tried the Ba scenario and we look a worse team playing that way. It might sound mad to say it because of Ba's goal return, but I'd go for the Cisse method in a 4-3-3 and have the front 3 mingle around to keep the opposition guessing. It might take away from Ba's game, but we'll play in a way that suits every single one of the other players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 The only time we actually had Ba, Ben Arfa, Cisse in a front 3 and Cabaye in an advanced role we won 6 out of 7. In the majority of games dominated and created crap loads, team becomes before any individual..... in any case Ba was not nullified he played very well in that time he just missed chances but his overall play was good. Besides when Ben Arfa use to come inside, Ba would usually join Cisse in the box so he had plenty of opportunities. Ba's goalscoring drought was more to lacking in confidence ( after derby penalty miss) and fitness ( after AFCON )than playing on the left. He still got chances but they wasn't being taken. It would work but it's painfully obvious Ba doesn't like playing there and in any case it's not like Ba was stuck out on the left he had freedom to come off the flank and swap positions with one of front 3 etc etc. I'm almost certain if we played that system all season long we would be like 6 or 7 points better off it's blatantly obvious it's what fits this team the most. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 The main question Pardew needs to ask Ba is if he wants to play out wide (with all the interchanging that comes with it) for a great team or in the centre for a crap team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 fwiw I don't think Pardew is setting us up this way to appease any one player btw. I think it's a convenient excuse not to blame Pardew for playing a way we all hate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 fwiw I don't think Pardew is setting us up this way to appease any one player btw. I think it's a convenient excuse not to blame Pardew for playing a way we all hate. But he keeps reverting to the 4-3-3, and when he brought Shola on he put him on the right instead of moving Ba (explain THAT one!). Also, the interchanging that came with the front 3 last season hasn't happened this season, Cisse has started on the right and stayed there, Ba hasn't moved from the centre at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 fwiw I don't think Pardew is setting us up this way to appease any one player btw. I think it's a convenient excuse not to blame Pardew for playing a way we all hate. But he keeps reverting to the 4-3-3, and when he brought Shola on he put him on the right instead of moving Ba. Also, the interchanging that came with the front 3 last season hasn't happened this season, Cisse has started on the right and stayed there, Ba hasn't moved from the centre at all. Well Ba is scoring goals, why would he move him? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 fwiw I don't think Pardew is setting us up this way to appease any one player btw. I think it's a convenient excuse not to blame Pardew for playing a way we all hate. But he keeps reverting to the 4-3-3, and when he brought Shola on he put him on the right instead of moving Ba. Also, the interchanging that came with the front 3 last season hasn't happened this season, Cisse has started on the right and stayed there, Ba hasn't moved from the centre at all. Well Ba is scoring goals, why would he move him? Same reason we moved him last season, to improve the team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Ba is the one that's scoring the goals in that position. Like I said, it's double-edged sword because it seems daft to move a player that's scoring goals from their position, but it's hurting us as a team. I don't think Pardew likes 433 at all, or he's got it into his head that 442 is defensively safer, or something. :shrug: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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