nuneaton Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 :lol: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 I was thinking of that exact Punt and Dennis sketch that Fugazi posted up when I made the initial comment the other day. :lol: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 As a partnership, I think it's doomed. Both are p*ss poor at challenging defenders effectively with their backs to goal, their flick ons or knockdowns rarely go to a teammate (hence why we wanted Carroll). Their linkup play is a tad s*** with other midfielders and practically non-existent between each other. Both are inconsistent or unreliable when it comes to basics like first touches, first time passes, crosses, flicks, etc (not to say they can't produce good touches etc, it's that they're inconsistent at them and liable to produce e.g. an overly heavy touch or pass for no good reason) - I've seen other posters mention partnerships like Yorke-Cole or Shearer-Ferdinand, but from what I remember Shearer and Yorke especially were light years ahead of Ba/Cisse when it comes to consistency in their basic and linkup play, so each partnership had at least one player who was deadly consistent at the basics. So imo we have a situation where we have two quality goalscorers in the team but it's Shola who often comes off the bench and traps a ball, dribbles with it, or wins a knockdown far more convincingly than Ba/Cisse will have done in the previous 60-70 minutes they spent on the pitch. Both strikers excel at sticking the ball in the back of the net, so more often than not one of them will bag a goal and it'll paper over the cracks. But ultimately their "partnership" only serves to make things harder for the team as a whole - it's bad enough that we have defenders lumping it forward because they're not comfortable on the ball, or wide players who struggle to put in a good cross, but then on top of that we have strikers providing very little for the team to work with. I'd love to be wrong about this, but there does need to be a point when we have to accept that you can't always throw two good goalscorers together and expect it to work. E.g. Torres and Drogba. Maybe that point would be after giving them an entire season to "hit it off", but the price of that might be a mid table finish for the club just because of this hope that they'll start gelling at some point. Having broken my own rule about not posting on the site, I am going to do it again because this is another great post by tmonkey. Last week, it was Shak's post about Pardew that got me off the fence and this one is equally as good. I agree totally with tmonkey's view - Ba and Cisse are not going to work...not only have they looked dysfunctional as a pair at SJP,but they also misfire when playing for Senegal. The big problem is that neither is a decent target man, and neither even wants to play that role. The way Pardew has the team playing, the long ball is used, too often in my view, but it rarely sticks when either of these two receive it. As a consequence, the opposition usually win it straight back because our M/F plays too deep to support the front men anyway - even if they were capable of keeping the ball when its played up to them. Both players have proved to be decent goal-scorers but I always felt that Cisse would find it tougher this season as defenders are watching him carefully...they have also worked out how to stop us playing and that's not difficult when we give them the ball so often. Cisse will struggle to reproduce his form from last season until he gets a better target man as a partner and Ba will only play the way he wants to. There is little the club can do about that because of his escape clause and they are reluctant to spend anyway. Shearer and Ferdinand were BOTH capable of playing the target man role as well as getting goals....Shearer helped to make Bellamy the success he was because he was so good at shielding and keeping the ball, thereby releasing Bellamy to use his pace to attack defences. You can go back to the Fairs Cup days when Wyn Davies used to take the pressure off Pop Robson who scored over 30 goals the season when we won it and even Macdonald and Tudor were a good match in the 70s...a pair of forwards always have to be complementary to be successful and Ba and Cisse clearly are not. Unfortunately, I see little chance of this being rectified unless Ba is sold in January and that is by no means unlikely so I hope the dozy duo in charge have been looking at alternatives. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexthegreat Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Doesnt amount to much in itself, but in the 10 mins they were on the pitch together Ba seemed to be dropping very deep looking for the ball (probably a bit too deep imo) while Cisse stayed up top. Ba also tried to play Cisse in with a 1st touch through ball (which was probably on) but failed to weight it properly. Thought both of them had a good game when they were on, wouldnt have minded seeing a bit more of them together as in that 10 mins I thought I'd seen some very small signs that they were trying to develop some sort of an understanding. On the other hand its possible that Ba was dropping off so much because the players behind him were playing so dreadfully, and I'm still very sceptical about this working as a partnership. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 One thing is for certain, Shola shouldn't be starting games at the expense of one or the other. He's at his best coming on against tired legs with 20 minutes to go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Was today the first time they've scored in the same league game since Villa last season? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenham Mag Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Yes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 And even then, the other wasn't on the pitch when the other scored. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Yes. That's madness when you look at how prolific they are individually and they weren't on the pitch at the same time today when either scored. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenham Mag Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Yes. That's madness when you look at how prolific they are individually and they weren't on the pitch at the same time today when either scored. Should have happened Vs Norwich but for THAT penalty Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Following on from this: Our attack is so much better with Ba dropping back a little deeper. So static, no one running beyond him otherwise. Also gives Cisse more space and drags Wigan about a bit. I much prefer Ba just in behind Cisse. Preferably with HBA and Marv either side, with Cabaye and Tiote behind them three. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 They played well together tonight I thought, with Ba dropping deep and Cisse going wide at times, both complimenting each other. They can play together as shown, its all about the service though and both got that tonight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest palnese Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Was it Ba that played Cisse through for the pen? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Was it Ba that played Cisse through for the pen? Yep. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Was it Ba that played Cisse through for the pen? Yep. Didn't think Cisse was that helpful to Ba tonight though. There was a pass on a couple of times but he either didn't see him or didn't choose to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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