Loïc Remy

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I mean, nobody would every disagree with such a simple argument. Obviously, if we could just overpay here and there in order to finish higher up the league then everyone would be in favour.

 

The whole point is (a) that it's not as simple as that, evidenced by the amount of money wasted in the transfer market and on agent fees etc. And (b) that some people believe the club is right not to be taken for a mug by everyone we deal with, as was the case in the past.

 

Ian, it is as simple as that. Pay money, the likes of an extra couple of million for this Gomis deal we can definitely afford, and give ourselves a better chance of winning games. Or take pleasure in getting bargains instead of winning football matches. What are you in it for?

 

Our problems in the past weren't the money we paid, they were who we paid it for. You talk about wasted money, it's not wasted if you get the right manager and the right players. We've got a great scout, why don't we back him?

 

Sure, but you haven't really advanced the argument much there. As I said, obviously nobody could disagree with the equation if paying more just equaled more success directly. And of course it depends on who you buy, but there again you minimise risk if every individual is less valuable. Assuming that you agree that some signings will inevitably flop.

 

I do get pleasure in operating shrewdly in the market, presumably everyone thinks that's a positive to some extent. Otherwise why do we laugh at Liverpool for wasting money on Downing and Henderson etc?

 

I do agree we have a good scout though, and he can be trusted more than most to deliver good players. Although I think his skill is more in identifying players who are available because of their situation (contract etc) than actual talent scouting. Everyone knows who most of the players are we buy.

[Heake]

Whilst I cant disagree that we really need another "proper" centre forward, the problem, & its been a re-occurring theme on this forum for a while, is the lack of creativity. I cant remember too many times last season when I`ve sat head in hands wondering how we`ve missed so many excellent chances. Sure there`s been times when we`ve looked decent, but in the main Cisse has looked isolated & if we cant make the by-line & put one in, we've been f***ed: There's been nothing down the middle.

 

Bizarrely, I`m more inclined to accept that, though it lacks depth, the squad is over par on quality, it just lacks the coaching to provide a cohesive threat up top.

 

 

 

Creativity is not just the job of the midfield though.

If they don't have forwards making runs and creating space they can't create chances for the forwards.

 

 

Something hopefully Remy will provide. However, you`ve still got to get the fucker to him.

[Dr Venkman]

I mean, nobody would every disagree with such a simple argument. Obviously, if we could just overpay here and there in order to finish higher up the league then everyone would be in favour.

 

The whole point is (a) that it's not as simple as that, evidenced by the amount of money wasted in the transfer market and on agent fees etc. And (b) that some people believe the club is right not to be taken for a mug by everyone we deal with, as was the case in the past.

 

Ian, it is as simple as that. Pay money, the likes of an extra couple of million for this Gomis deal we can definitely afford, and give ourselves a better chance of winning games. Or take pleasure in getting bargains instead of winning football matches. What are you in it for?

 

Our problems in the past weren't the money we paid, they were who we paid it for. You talk about wasted money, it's not wasted if you get the right manager and the right players. We've got a great scout, why don't we back him?

 

Sure, but you haven't really advanced the argument much there. As I said, obviously nobody could disagree with the equation if paying more just equaled more success directly. And of course it depends on who you buy, but there again you minimise risk if every individual is less valuable. Assuming that you agree that some signings will inevitably flop.

 

I do get pleasure in operating shrewdly in the market, presumably everyone thinks that's a positive to some extent. Otherwise why do we laugh at Liverpool for wasting money on Downing and Henderson etc?

 

I do agree we have a good scout though, and he can be trusted more than most to deliver good players. Although I think his skill is more in identifying players who are available because of their situation (contract etc) than actual talent scouting. Everyone knows who most of the players are we buy.

 

I 'advanced the argument' by pulling you on saying its not as simple as that, because it is. If we paid an extra couple of million Gomis would be an NUFC player. What's complicated about that?

 

Being shrewd is good, being a great football team is better. I laughed at Liverpool for paying 20m for Henderson, they beat us 6-0 at St James' Park.

[Guest Haris Vuckic]

So we haven't got a single new recruit for the new season. Good work Newcastle

[Hanshithispantz]

I will continue to be baffled by sides paying top dollar for Downings, Milners and Hendersons, but not at Soldados, Paulinhos or Schurrles.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

With Gomis it probably is as simple, as long as you don't mind being taken for a ride by dodgy agents etc. There are always examples where you could say a few more million could get a decent player.

 

But I was talking more about the principle of trying to get good value in the transfer market, and spreading risk by buying individuals for less money and with residual value when they leave. You can't make a very good argument based on individual examples IMO... because inevitably there would be an example where we overpaid to get a player and it worked out badly. Probably many.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

So we haven't got a single new recruit for the new season. Good work Newcastle

 

Remy?

[Guest Haris Vuckic]

So we haven't got a single new recruit for the new season. Good work Newcastle

 

Remy?

 

Who's injured for a month of it?

 

My point is we have the same team that finished 16th for Monday

[henke]

So we haven't got a single new recruit for the new season. Good work Newcastle

 

Remy?

 

Who's injured for a month of it?

 

My point is we have the same team that finished 16th for Monday

 

And the same manager, whose position is now being undermined by foul mouthed fat alchy. So despite having a summer to rectify problems, we're actually worse off than May

[Dokko]

Its not as simple as that. He could break his leg first game and be out for most of the season. Paying more money in the transfer market doesn't always equal better performances and higher finishes. Look at Liverpool paying £35m, £20m and £18m on Carroll, Downing & Henderson..it got them nowhere while two have left for a loss of £34m 

 

Then you've got managers who can't implement or use players properly (see Pardew) so buying another talented player the manager can't use is a total waste of money.

 

There are loads of factors, it certainly isn't as simple as that.

 

As for Gomis, I really hope we don't pay an extra couple of million, we've reached the max value and I'm surprised we even went that far. It is no coincidence no one else has matched our offer, and if we go ahead and do such a thing we are just panicking.

[Guest Spark]

So we haven't got a single new recruit for the new season. Good work Newcastle

 

Remy?

 

Who's injured for a month of it?

 

My point is we have the same team that finished 16th for Monday

 

Not our fault he's injured, though, is it? If we sign Gomis and he picks up a knock before Man City, would you still make the same statement?

[Guest Haris Vuckic]

So we haven't got a single new recruit for the new season. Good work Newcastle

 

Remy?

 

Who's injured for a month of it?

 

My point is we have the same team that finished 16th for Monday

 

And the same manager, whose position is now being undermined by foul mouthed fat alchy. So despite having a summer to rectify problems, we're actually worse off than May

 

I'd probably argue that you need to spend money to stay still too.

[Guest Haris Vuckic]

Its not as simple as that. He could break his leg first game and be out for most of the season. Paying more money in the transfer market doesn't always equal better performances and higher finishes. Look at Liverpool paying £35, £20m and £18m on Carroll, Downing & Henderson..it got them nowhere while two have left for a loss of £34m 

 

Then you've got managers who can't implement or use players properly (see Pardew) so buying another talented player the manager can't use is a total waste of money.

 

There are loads of factors, it certainly isn't as simple as that.

 

As for Gomis, I really hope we don't pay an extra couple of million, we've reached the max value and I'm surprised we even went that far. It is no coincidence no one else has matched our offer, and if we go ahead and do such a thing we are just panicking.

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Its not as simple as that. He could break his leg first game and be out for most of the season. Paying more money in the transfer market doesn't always equal better performances and higher finishes. Look at Liverpool paying £35, £20m and £18m on Carroll, Downing & Henderson..it got them nowhere while two have left for a loss of £34m 

 

Then you've got managers who can't implement or use players properly (see Pardew) so buying another talented player the manager can't use is a total waste of money.

 

There are loads of factors, it certainly isn't as simple as that.

 

As for Gomis, I really hope we don't pay an extra couple of million, we've reached the max value and I'm surprised we even went that far. It is no coincidence no one else has matched our offer, and if we go ahead and do such a thing we are just panicking.

 

Basically what I mean.

[Wullie]

If Liverpool committed such a cardinal financial sin, how come they haven't gone out of business? How come they're still spending and spending? The Premier League clubs are swimming in money, some people haven't quite grasped this. They can afford to spend big money with very little consequence.

 

Ian, funny how you agreed with TT saying that spending doesn't bring success, yet also claim we can't compete with Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, because they've got more money than we have. It's one or the other, you can't have both.

 

If we don't trust Graham Carr's choices enough to spend the asking price, why is he employed?

[Guest Haris Vuckic]

Reductio ad absurdum tbh - just because we're spending literally FUCK ALL why do people keep bringing up Liverpool to defend it?

 

Nobody is saying spend £150m but £15m might be nice.

[Dave]

Reductio ad absurdum tbh - just because we're spending literally FUCK ALL why do people keep bringing up Liverpool to defend it?

 

Nobody is saying spend £150m but £15m might be nice.

 

Yep.

[Hanshithispantz]

It is as simple as spending money, really. You need to make the right purchases, obviously, but you need to actually make money available and be prepared to pay the going rate for the players that you so desperately need, not just hunt around the bargain bin in the hope you can find a gem.  I'm entirely grateful for the likes of Sissoko, Cabaye and Mbiwa on the cheap, I really am, but when these deals are all you rely on every window you're never going to realistically build a proper squad, you'll always be left short.

[Dokko]

If Liverpool committed such a cardinal financial sin, how come they haven't gone out of business? How come they're still spending and spending? The Premier League clubs are swimming in money, some people haven't quite grasped this. They can afford to spend big money with very little consequence.

 

Ian, funny how you agreed with TT saying that spending doesn't bring success, yet also claim we can't compete with Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, because they've got more money than we have. It's one or the other, you can't have both.

 

If we don't trust Graham Carr's choices enough to spend the asking price, why is he employed?

 

Liverpool bring in a lot more money than us, they can afford to make mistakes to a point. Big mistakes like they've made won't put them out of business but they have pushed them further away from the CL and certainly any title ambitions. Had they spent that money wisely they'd be much better off. We can't not with our owner. Any mistake we make we are saddled with until the end of his contract, see Xisco or Smith, and since we nearly went down, any big mistake could cost us dearly.

 

We are over cautious and it is frustrating but i was more frustrated at seeing Smith pick up £60kpw for doing nowt or even worse on the pitch being a liability.

 

 

End of the day we all want us to sign more players, we all want a better team but spending money doesn't automatically equal better results and mistakes made we are lumbered with while spending over the top means we can't or simply won't spend next time round. You've got to consider this before saying oh aye, just chuck and extra couple of million at Gomis to make it happen...its nonsense even without our tight arse owner.

 

 

 

[Dokko]

It is as simple as spending money, really. You need to make the right purchases, obviously, but you need to actually make money available and be prepared to pay the going rate for the players that you so desperately need, not just hunt around the bargain bin in the hope you can find a gem.  I'm entirely grateful for the likes of Sissoko, Cabaye and Mbiwa on the cheap, I really am, but when these deals are all you rely on every window you're never going to realistically build a proper squad, you'll always be left short.

 

Had we paid full whack for those players we wouldn't be signing anyone for the next 2 windows. 

 

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Ian, funny how you agreed with TT saying that spending doesn't bring success, yet also claim we can't compete with Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, because they've got more money than we have. It's one or the other, you can't have both.

 

Think you've simplified what I was saying there.

 

Money obviously does help to achieve success, but there is a sliding scale. For example, Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs can spend a fortune but are still miles off winning the title. If Spurs lose Bale then they might not even make the CL. Same with Liverpool and Suarez. I'm assuming we're talking about the kind of spending you can do without infinite wealth (i.e. an oligarch or a sheikh).

 

Spending can bring success, it would be stupid to deny that. I'm not making any judgement about whether we "can" compete with Liverpool or Spurs et al, the fact is we have a transfer policy and I think it's fairly sensible.

 

If you're looking to achieve rapid jumps in league position (from where we are) then the point is that you would have to take some pretty serious risks financially. Otherwise you can go for more gradual improvement through aquiring good players for reasonable money, like we're doing.

 

We've kind of been through this discussion a hundred times before. The most important thing for me is that we're bringing in good signings... albeit not as often or always as fast as we would like.

[Wullie]

Liverpool do bring in more money but not to the proportions they spend more than us, not even close.

 

They beat us 6-0 on our own patch with Downing and Henderson in the team, the latter scoring twice. Yet certain people on here think they're the mugs and we're the dead clever ones. Absolutely embarrassing.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Liverpool do bring in more money but not to the proportions they spend more than us, not even close.

 

They beat us 6-0 on our own patch with Downing and Henderson in the team, the latter scoring twice. Yet certain people on here think they're the mugs and we're the dead clever ones. Absolutely embarrassing.

 

Downing and Henderson playing is kind of irrelevant... does that make them good signings?

 

FWIW I don't believe what you've ascribed to me there, if you meant me. If Liverpool think they can afford to risk £30m flops then that's fair enough, I'll laugh at the individual signings but they're entitled to whatever strategy they can support.

[Hughesy]

I do wish we actually had a list of strikers to buy that went beyond Gomis and Bent.  That in itself seems a bit strange.  One would hope that if we are asked to pay 10 million for Gomis and we don't think this is acceptable and we don't think 6 million for Bent is acceptable... there must be some other options?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I do wish we actually had a list of strikers to buy that went beyond Gomis and Bent.  That in itself seems a bit strange.  One would hope that if we are asked to pay 10 million for Gomis and we don't think this is acceptable and we don't think 6 million for Bent is acceptable... there must be some other options?

 

I agree with this. In practice I don't know how possible it is to pursue multiple players right to the point of singing them, then pull out of all but one. But we should definitely be prepared with a couple of fallback options.

 

FWIW we did get Gouffran as a fallback from Remy, apparently.