toontenacity Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 I didn't write him off, I'm talking here and now. In which case I agree with all aside from Anita. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Bailey Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 I didn't write him off, I'm talking here and now. Apologies sir I misread that. Think this lad could be a gem if handled right. God help him with us then... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 He looks very good going forward, but defensively he makes Lippi's OTT sentiment about Santon look totally accurate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 The best "DM" we have is Cabaye, sadly speaking. Tiote (when keeping it simple) is the better DM, Cabaye should never be used in that role imo. Complete waste. Is the fact Tiote's not particularly good on the ball one of the reasons Cabaye has to come so deep though to gain possession? I still don't think Cabaye should ever be used as a DM, and that Tiote is better suited to the role. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 What I'm saying though, is it not because Tiote's poor on the ball that Cabaye has to drop deep for it? If we got a "defensive midfielder" who was better on the ball then Cabaye might be able to play further forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 I still want Cabaye to be the deepest of the midfielders, getting forward when he can but primarily receiving the ball and pinging it out wide. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 What I'm saying though, is it not because Tiote's poor on the ball that Cabaye has to drop deep for it? If we got a "defensive midfielder" who was better on the ball then Cabaye might be able to play further forward. Yeah that's pretty much it. Can't see us bringing one in like, but it would be ideal as I'd much prefer Cabaye further forward helping to create. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 I still want Cabaye to be the deepest of the midfielders, getting forward when he can but primarily receiving the ball and pinging it out wide. That wouldn't just be a waste of his best attributes, it would also be asking him to do something he's not very good at (bit like Pardew does with absolutely everyone). Plus, chipped passes have never worked in this team. Especially with our total lack of wingers. Cabaye needs to be the furthest midfielder forward. Anita or Sissoko should be the deepest. Tiote should be nowhere near the side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Not sure an actual sitting DM is required, not many teams use them anymore. Unless DM is a blanket term for ball winner? in which case i agree a midfielder who tactically astute, capable of getting forward and winning the ball would be nice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Most teams play with a midfielder who sits. Tiotes played well for 2 out of 3 years. Not going to write him off just yet Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 I still want Cabaye to be the deepest of the midfielders, getting forward when he can but primarily receiving the ball and pinging it out wide. That wouldn't just be a waste of his best attributes, it would also be asking him to do something he's not very good at (bit like Pardew does with absolutely everyone). Plus, chipped passes have never worked in this team. Especially with our total lack of wingers. Cabaye needs to be the furthest midfielder forward. Anita or Sissoko should be the deepest. Tiote should be nowhere near the side. Cabaye's best attributes are his vision and passing. The deeper midfield role is perfect for him in the PL - when (as you've alluded to) we find ourselves with 2 good wide players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Agreed, I like him playing further forward too at times but think the Alonso/Pirlo role suits him maybe better, not sure he's mobile enough for a no 10 playmaker position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 A defensive midfielder's first quality has to be dependability. If Tiote understands the role, which is covering the back 4, winning the ball and giving it to a colleague in close proximity without risk, then he'll be fine. It's a big "if" though. Because he takes far too many risks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Most teams play with a midfielder who sits. Yeah but there's a huge difference.... ( which you tend to neglect everytime) most teams have a midfielder who is reliable positionally, passing, ability to get forward and winning the ball. Tiote is none of these things and never has been. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Tiote, Sissoke, Kebab etc, all have good points and bad but It's all conjecture while Pardew sticks to his tactics, it really is hard for most of them when Pardew plays a system and style that suits none of them. Maybe he might change this coming season, we'd be able to evaluate their strengths and weaknessess a bit better, if they get played in the right positions playing football that suits them. The one thing for sure though, you can't transplant Tiote's brain for a better footballers. Sometimes footballers need intelligence and for all Tiote's good points, his main bad point is in his noggin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 There's some statistic about Pirlo makes a statisticly large number of tackles despite not really being a 'tackling' holding midfielder though playing in the position. He just reads the game so well. Problem with Tiote is that as imposing as he is he just runs about like a headless chicken and will always be on the backfoot defensively. A player who can read play (Anita has potential) will always do better at high levels than a player who's not thinking it through at all. If Tiote can play more intelligently he'd be fine, but Anita is probably more likely to do that if given playing time imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Tiote's never remotely looked like an intelligent player, though. Not even at his best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Yeah, kinda made up for it with speed and economy of play, but now he just over-elaborates. Think there's a glass ceiling of how far hard work can take you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Tiote's never remotely looked like an intelligent player, though. Not even at his best. Aye, with a great managers help he could be much better, and that's clutching at straws tbh. Watching him over the last 18 months or so it's become clear that his poor form isn't just down to Pardew, as much as i'd like it to be. He lacks the intelligence and common sense to be top drawer imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 I still want Cabaye to be the deepest of the midfielders, getting forward when he can but primarily receiving the ball and pinging it out wide. That wouldn't just be a waste of his best attributes, it would also be asking him to do something he's not very good at (bit like Pardew does with absolutely everyone). Plus, chipped passes have never worked in this team. Especially with our total lack of wingers. Cabaye needs to be the furthest midfielder forward. Anita or Sissoko should be the deepest. Tiote should be nowhere near the side. Cabaye's best attributes are his vision and passing. The deeper midfield role is perfect for him in the PL - when (as you've alluded to) we find ourselves with 2 good wide players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Tiote's never remotely looked like an intelligent player, though. Not even at his best. Aye, with a great managers help he could be much better, and that's clutching at straws tbh. Watching him over the last 18 months or so it's become clear that his poor form isn't just down to Pardew, as much as i'd like it to be. He lacks the intelligence and common sense to be top drawer imo. It is total bull in a china shop with Tiote. Not saying he couldn't engage his brain and use it to improve himself..but you would think or hope that just has to be down to him. Unless our coaches are more brainless or shit scared to approach him about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 I still want Cabaye to be the deepest of the midfielders, getting forward when he can but primarily receiving the ball and pinging it out wide. That wouldn't just be a waste of his best attributes, it would also be asking him to do something he's not very good at (bit like Pardew does with absolutely everyone). Plus, chipped passes have never worked in this team. Especially with our total lack of wingers. Cabaye needs to be the furthest midfielder forward. Anita or Sissoko should be the deepest. Tiote should be nowhere near the side. Cabaye's best attributes are his vision and passing. The deeper midfield role is perfect for him in the PL - when (as you've alluded to) we find ourselves with 2 good wide players. Deepest yes but not an out and out defensive midfielder. Remains to be seen whether Anita can build up the strength needed to play as a DM. He is great for cleaning up, receiving and passing the ball over short spaces and at a decent tempo. Just fear he gets lost due to his size. Potentially Cabs, Anita and Sissoko could work. Still think we lack goals through the middle with that though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Tiote's never remotely looked like an intelligent player, though. Not even at his best. Aye, with a great managers help he could be much better, and that's clutching at straws tbh. Watching him over the last 18 months or so it's become clear that his poor form isn't just down to Pardew, as much as i'd like it to be. He lacks the intelligence and common sense to be top drawer imo. It is total bull in a china shop with Tiote. Not saying he couldn't engage his brain and use it to improve himself..but you would think or hope that just has to be down to him. Unless our coaches are more brainless or shit scared to approach him about it. Yep so many needless fouls given away. I think our coaches do talk to him about it but i think it's a combination of him not being able to change, and them not being good enough to help him change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 I still want Cabaye to be the deepest of the midfielders, getting forward when he can but primarily receiving the ball and pinging it out wide. That wouldn't just be a waste of his best attributes, it would also be asking him to do something he's not very good at (bit like Pardew does with absolutely everyone). Plus, chipped passes have never worked in this team. Especially with our total lack of wingers. Cabaye needs to be the furthest midfielder forward. Anita or Sissoko should be the deepest. Tiote should be nowhere near the side. Cabaye's best attributes are his vision and passing. The deeper midfield role is perfect for him in the PL - when (as you've alluded to) we find ourselves with 2 good wide players. Deepest yes but not an out and out defensive midfielder. Remains to be seen whether Anita can build up the strength needed to play as a DM. He is great for cleaning up, receiving and passing the ball over short spaces and at a decent tempo. Just fear he gets lost due to his size. Potentially Cabs, Anita and Sissoko could work. Still think we lack goals through the middle with that though. Anita, Cabs and Sissoko is our 2nd best combination behind Marveaux, Cabs and Sissoko. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 I still want Cabaye to be the deepest of the midfielders, getting forward when he can but primarily receiving the ball and pinging it out wide. That wouldn't just be a waste of his best attributes, it would also be asking him to do something he's not very good at (bit like Pardew does with absolutely everyone). Plus, chipped passes have never worked in this team. Especially with our total lack of wingers. Cabaye needs to be the furthest midfielder forward. Anita or Sissoko should be the deepest. Tiote should be nowhere near the side. Cabaye's best attributes are his vision and passing. The deeper midfield role is perfect for him in the PL - when (as you've alluded to) we find ourselves with 2 good wide players. Deepest yes but not an out and out defensive midfielder. Remains to be seen whether Anita can build up the strength needed to play as a DM. He is great for cleaning up, receiving and passing the ball over short spaces and at a decent tempo. Just fear he gets lost due to his size. Potentially Cabs, Anita and Sissoko could work. Still think we lack goals through the middle with that though. Anita, Cabs and Sissoko is our 2nd best combination behind Marveaux, Cabs and Sissoko. Definitely what I would like to see, in fact probably most on here would.. Will never happen with the gutless excuse for tacticians and coaches we have at the club though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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