Alan Pardew

[Happy Face]

He doesn't defend him, he's just cleverer than all of us because he can see that if we get rid of Pardew we'll just get someone worse. So even though he's no Pardew fan, he'll tell you why you should be.

 

I've noticed a few claiming that they don't defend him, while defending him.

 

Are you saying Pardew doesn't have one redeemable feature?  He's learned nothing?  Corrected no mistakes?

 

You expose yourself as an unthinking dimwit if so.

 

There was a bloke sat behind me last night, spent the whole game laying into our players, calling them maggots, bellends, pricks and cocks.  Marveaux and Sammy got it in the neck most.  He was droning on and on constantly about our lack of width.  I am no fan of Sammy or Marveaux, but I would defy anyone to argue that this man was not a f***ing c***, unable to judge a performance as it plays out in front of him.  To appreciate the good and criticise the bad.  Strike a balance.

 

What has that bloke got to do with ANYTHING? There's a difference between striking a balance and levelling the playing field.

 

If I looked hard enough, I'd be able to find some redeeming qualities in some of the worst managers in the PL history, there are always ways to look at things in order to make people seem better. It's like getting 'punctual' in your report card, it means nothing. It's just there, taking up unnecessary space, making things look balanced in quantity and not quality.

 

As far as I can see, that's exactly what you're doing. Putting a positive spin on things that to the majority are viewed as either negative, or a given. You could say that that's the product of a pessimistic outlook, but I would argue that a lot of people, myself included have gone through the same way of thinking as you for varying periods of time, until they've come to the conclusion that, actually, it was all evidence upon evidence of Pardew being s***.

 

Going back to your way of thinking now, when I've already drawn a patient and defined conclusion that Pardew isn't good enough makes no sense. I wasn't striking a balance when I thought those things, I was entirely kidding myself that things would get better, when all of the signs pointed towards them getting worse, and all of the outcomes proved that they had.

 

That bloke was criticising the Sammy based on his preconceived notions of shitness based on previous performances (and those of his brother) not on what was actually a top quality performance.  He wasn't giving him the benefit of the doubt.  No point giving him the benefit of the doubt cos he's been s*** whenever he's played before.  I'd call that unfair.

 

It's not about looking hard enough for something to spin positively.  There are tens of thousands of words written on here about what he does wrong.  What's the harm in saying "well actually...." when there's an opposite view to be given.

 

Aye, but that's neither about Pardew, nor by anyone on here. That's irrelevant to this.

 

It was about me defending players I don't rate that highly against the unfair blanket criticism they were receiving.

 

...that and I'm still annoyed by the prick 

[BottledDog]

We were improved against Hull at the start, I thought we were going to murder them. Then we started making errors, they got the momentum and Pardew made some mistakes with subs.

 

The first 10 mins against Hull, we looked as if we'd destroy them. We were God damned awesome!

 

 

'Fuck went wrong?

 

 

 

 

/too attacking?

[Lotus]

West Ham

Morecambe

Fulham

Villa

Hull

Leeds

Everton

Cardiff

 

8 games for Pardew to be judged on.  Could be gone by Halloween if it goes badly, and would have NO excuses about the quality of opposition.

 

W4 D1 L1

 

Liverpool

Mackems

Man City

Chelsea

Tottenham

 

.. is a harsh run that could do for him. 5 points would  be a good return.

 

 

 

Given that we're not judging him on the Man City game surely it's not fair to judge against any other good sides either?

 

Just the sh*t and average ones.

 

Everyone pretty much accepted our season started after the Man City game.  He wasn't going to be sacked off that result or anything.  I said he has 8 games after it that will tell us if we're relegation bait or not.  A decent haul against  West Ham, Fulham, Villa, Hull, Everton & Cardiff would suggest we're not going to be struggling in relegation places all season.  Which would be enough to keep Pardew in his job.  For better or worse.

 

However, with that draw in the league cup we now have 5 games following that are all REALLY difficult.  Whatever has happened in the 8 preceding games, if he were to lose 5 on the bounce, there would be hell on, irrespective of the opponents, and the #Pardewout might get their wish.

 

It turns out though that Man City weren't that hot at the start (lost to Cardiff and drew with Stoke) it's just that we soooo bad that day. As the season's started now though and teams are finding their rhythm surely it's unfair to judge him against the other top sides? Like Liverpool, Man City (again), Spurs, Chelsea, etc. Because they'll be firing on all cylinders now.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Man City were class TBF, and they've just hammered Man Utd.

[Lotus]

Man City were class TBF, and they've just hammered Man Utd.

 

Very next match they lost to Cardiff then a hard fought victory over Hull and then managed a draw against Stoke. We stank that day. Couldn't have been worse.

[Benwell Lad]

West Ham

Morecambe

Fulham

Villa

Hull

Leeds

Everton

Cardiff

 

8 games for Pardew to be judged on.  Could be gone by Halloween if it goes badly, and would have NO excuses about the quality of opposition.

 

W4 D1 L1

 

Liverpool

Mackems

Man City

Chelsea

Tottenham

 

.. is a harsh run that could do for him. 5 points would  be a good return.

 

 

 

Given that we're not judging him on the Man City game surely it's not fair to judge against any other good sides either?

 

Just the sh*t and average ones.

 

Everyone pretty much accepted our season started after the Man City game.  He wasn't going to be sacked off that result or anything.  I said he has 8 games after it that will tell us if we're relegation bait or not.  A decent haul against  West Ham, Fulham, Villa, Hull, Everton & Cardiff would suggest we're not going to be struggling in relegation places all season.  Which would be enough to keep Pardew in his job.  For better or worse.

 

However, with that draw in the league cup we now have 5 games following that are all REALLY difficult.  Whatever has happened in the 8 preceding games, if he were to lose 5 on the bounce, there would be hell on, irrespective of the opponents, and the #Pardewout might get their wish.

 

It turns out though that Man City weren't that hot at the start (lost to Cardiff and drew with Hull) it's just that we soooo bad that day. As the season's started now though and teams are finding their rhythm surely it's unfair to judge him against the other top sides? Like Liverpool, Man City (again), Spurs, Chelsea, etc. Because they'll be firing on all cylinders now.

 

Great point for Hull that like. Brucie would have been delighted.

[Lotus]

West Ham

Morecambe

Fulham

Villa

Hull

Leeds

Everton

Cardiff

 

8 games for Pardew to be judged on.  Could be gone by Halloween if it goes badly, and would have NO excuses about the quality of opposition.

 

W4 D1 L1

 

Liverpool

Mackems

Man City

Chelsea

Tottenham

 

.. is a harsh run that could do for him. 5 points would  be a good return.

 

 

 

Given that we're not judging him on the Man City game surely it's not fair to judge against any other good sides either?

 

Just the sh*t and average ones.

 

Everyone pretty much accepted our season started after the Man City game.  He wasn't going to be sacked off that result or anything.  I said he has 8 games after it that will tell us if we're relegation bait or not.  A decent haul against  West Ham, Fulham, Villa, Hull, Everton & Cardiff would suggest we're not going to be struggling in relegation places all season.  Which would be enough to keep Pardew in his job.  For better or worse.

 

However, with that draw in the league cup we now have 5 games following that are all REALLY difficult.  Whatever has happened in the 8 preceding games, if he were to lose 5 on the bounce, there would be hell on, irrespective of the opponents, and the #Pardewout might get their wish.

 

It turns out though that Man City weren't that hot at the start (lost to Cardiff and drew with Hull) it's just that we soooo bad that day. As the season's started now though and teams are finding their rhythm surely it's unfair to judge him against the other top sides? Like Liverpool, Man City (again), Spurs, Chelsea, etc. Because they'll be firing on all cylinders now.

 

Great point for Hull that like. Brucie would have been delighted.

 

Corrected just for you, Nobby.

[Mick]

 

 

I don't think it's fair to say Pardew is still plugging away at the same Plan a he was trying at christmas, that his vision is hoofball, that the first 10 games last year were unacceptable, or 10 or so after the new year, or that advancing to Europa QF should not impact on the league performance or that he should necessarily succeed despite whatever injury troubles he's had, or that we're regularly embarrassed at home etc.

 

It's comments like that which I have responded to.

 

Why do you feel you need to defend any of that?

 

I'm not going to cover each one because it's all been done a million times but the UEFA one does stand out.  Pardew claimed the squad he went into the season with was good enough to challenge for a CL place so he was happy with the squad when he was defending Ashley and Llambias. 

 

We made loads of changes between European and domestic games and he had the cheek to use tiredness for the mackem defeat and Mick Lowes mentioned how many players hadn't featured in the game and he said those were rusty, he can't even remember his own bullshit. 

 

We had injuries and that is fair enough when we're playing teams like Man U, they were meaningless against Reading when we had a team out that should have been more than capable of winning.

 

Why pick the 10 games after the new year?  What about losing at home 3-0 to the mackems and 6-0 to Liverpool, they were both after new year.

[Guest Dontooner]

Even when we finish 5th, it was clear as day for me that the results were unsustainable for seasons to come base on the performances.

 

If HF thought it was canny football and sustainable enough said. Btw you might like stats as a reference to your arguments however i think you use them poorly. Often base on carefully selected points for your bias drafts. Its just as easy to pick the awful parts of a season to form an argument of why Pardew should have been sacked.

 

Based on his time here and his time at his previous clubs, its quite clear Pardew is a below average manager that could not deliver consistent league positions. I would not be surprise if we finish 10th season and 15th the next. Because if we use stats thats how his teams dances around the table. Isn't this highly correlated to our inconsistent performances during his time in charge.

 

Good managers deliver a brand of football that performances itself poses a correlation to their results. For example Wigan being nicer on the eyes , however are leaky in defence which is pretty damn obvious and consistent week in and out. Team's like Man United under Sir Alex how put in not only solid defenses but possession and efficient attacks. The consistency is probably the reason he might be the most successful BPL manager.

 

Consistency is the problem for Pardew, hence the differing opinions. Still trying to find patterns of play which contribute to our successful fast brand of football.

[TRon]

can you not boil HF's chelp into "he's shit but he's not quite as shit as you lot all make out, and here's why" ?

 

That's about right tbf. 

 

If people slag him off for something I don't see, then I'm likely to question that criticism.  I think it's important to be fair if you're going to criticise someone.

 

The 13 game run with 2 wins last season was where our season went to shit.  I think saying our season was utter shit from start to finish lacks nuance and fails to highlight the pure unadulterated shit of that period in comparison to the adequate form of the 25 games either side of it.

 

Pardew's remit as I see it is to get the results that he should considering the players available to him. So if we get beat off Man City I'm not going to lose too much sleep over it, but when we lose to teams like Hull then I am going to feel something's wrong. You can argue that Ashley hasn't backed him, but he's still got a better squad of players available to him than all the rest bar the top 6/7 clubs. So the criticism he gets here is usually justified IMO.

 

I criticised him in this thread after the Hull game too.  Deservedly.

 

 

The post wasn't really about one game though, it's that we have a squad which should be finishing around the top 8 given Pardew has better resources than most of the managers in the Premier.

[Spudil]

https://twitter.com/premierleague/status/383229514660052992/photo/1

 

Really surprised we're not in this considering now ONLY ARSENAL PLAY LESS LONG BALLS DID YOU KNOW, WE BRAZIL NOW

 

Suppose we could be 6th

[Ameritoon]

We're 9 apparently, according to whoscored

[Happy Face]

We're 9 apparently, according to whoscored

 

On 81.4%

 

Compared to 10th last season on 79.8%

[Happy Face]

http://i41.tinypic.com/slmx53.jpg

 

I did this after the villa game which shows our progress on more short passing and less going long. The increased accuracy follows naturally from that I think.

 

On total short passes...

 

9th on 398 per game.

 

Last year 14th on 327 per game.

 

[Belfast Mags]

Endless stats 

[Dr Venkman]

The desperation to prove we're not hitting it long as much as we used to . We know, man. We can see it with our eyes. The thing is, it's actually counter productive unless the players move around a bit.

[Happy Face]

Spudil seemed to be looking for some clarification.

[thomas]

The desperation to prove we're not hitting it long as much as we used to . We know, man. We can see it with our eyes. The thing is, it's actually counter productive unless the players move around a bit.

imo the movement has gotten a little better - as in improved, not saying world class here - with the inclusion of Anita and the availability of HBA. Pardew undoubtedly hates this, much as he undoubtedly also hates sunshine, babies and music, so I'm sure it will be drilled out of them quickly. Not as static as last season, so far, and still work to be done but it's mildly encouraging.

[Happy Face]

Our ability to break down opposition defense is still as bad as it ever was. Remy has caused a bit more chaos which has led to opportunities. But its not yet an effective system of switching play and using the pace of runners to create space for the others.

 

I'm hopeful that will come though.

[Lotus]

Our ability to break down opposition defense is still as bad as it ever was. Remy has caused a bit more chaos which has led to opportunities. But its not yet an effective system of switching play and using the pace of runners to create space for the others.

 

I'm hopeful that will come though.

 

Not getting into a 'who's better' debate here but if you look at your arch nemesis, Laudrup. He gets his players moving very effectively. Even when they change out most of their team, the other players who come make good runs and create space.

 

That's clearly not Pardew's style (there's pros and cons to both - Swansea can look far too open at times). The only way we're going to play that way is if we buy players for which that is their natural game.

 

You want us to buy players that don't necessarily fit with the managers ethos. That's hindering Pardew not helping him.

[Happy Face]

My arch Nemesis? 

 

He was one of many top flight managers I said i wouldn't necessarily risk the upheaval of a sacking for.  It was the Laudrup bum-boys that couldn't accept that.

 

 

[Lotus]

My arch Nemesis? 

 

He was one of many top flight managers I said i wouldn't necessarily risk the upheaval of a sacking for.  It was the Laudrup bum-boys that couldn't accept that.

 

 

 

The criteria you seem to hold as to whom you'd like appointed, the ability to create a good football team doesn't appear to be a priority. You might be able to understand that as this just a forum and so everything wished for here is just fantasy, other posters may find that an anethema.

[Hanshithispantz]

The notion that you have to be a "Laudrop bum boy" to be slightly disturbed by any Newcastle fan not seeing Pardew binned for Laudrop as an exciting switch, man 

 

I would have been equally disgusted in the summer by anyone if they were slightly weary of sacking Shola Ameobi off for Eric Lamela.

[merlin]

The notion that you have to be a "Laudrop bum boy" to be slightly disturbed by any Newcastle fan not seeing Pardew binned for Laudrop as an exciting switch, man 

 

I would have been equally disgusted in the summer by anyone if they were slightly weary of sacking Shola Ameobi off for Eric Lamela.

 

Yep - as bad as people saying that RDM isn't a good enough upgrade on Pardew..!!

There must be a lot of Pardew's troll mates on this forum.

[Happy Face]

The criteria you seem to hold as to whom you'd like appointed, the ability to create a good football team doesn't appear to be a priority. You might be able to understand that as this just a forum and so everything wished for here is just fantasy, other posters may find that an anethema.

 

That's it like.

 

Like fantasising that the removal of Shimon Peres from power is likely to solve the middle east crisis.