mrmojorisin75 Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Aye, everyone would rather HBA was playing every week and ripping up the league. But he wasn't doing that, so he's come out of the team for a while. isn't this the crux? the fact that he probably should be but is being 'prevented' from doing so by our shit manager, his terrible tactics and being left out of the team for gabriel obertan? that's my view on the HBA thing, players don't perform in isolation to what's going on around them, especially not flair players like HBA So, this mercurial talent, with a vast history of inconsistency, only ever plays badly because of his manager. How does he ever play well? well i've already addressed this haven't i? but you know that...his age, apparent focus, team ethic and of course the fact that there's a world cup coming suggest to me the lad had what it takes to succeed now where in his younger years he was maybe more of a little arsehole holding himself back i'll refer you to the hull game again....he's crowded out by 2-3 everytime he gets the ball, that's where your manager has to come in and make changes to either open up the space for him or use his being crowded out to open up the game for the team our manager did neither and rarely does Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Aye, everyone would rather HBA was playing every week and ripping up the league. But he wasn't doing that, so he's come out of the team for a while. isn't this the crux? the fact that he probably should be but is being 'prevented' from doing so by our shit manager, his terrible tactics and being left out of the team for gabriel obertan? that's my view on the HBA thing, players don't perform in isolation to what's going on around them, especially not flair players like HBA So, this mercurial talent, with a vast history of inconsistency, only ever plays badly because of his manager. How does he ever play well? well i've already addressed this haven't i? but you know that...his age, apparent focus, team ethic and of course the fact that there's a world cup coming suggest to me the lad had what it takes to succeed now where in his younger years he was maybe more of a little arsehole holding himself back i'll refer you to the hull game again....he's crowded out by 2-3 everytime he gets the ball, that's where your manager has to come in and make changes to either open up the space for him or use his being crowded out to open up the game for the team our manager did neither and rarely does He was shite against Hull, but he wasn't the only one. He'd been unplayable in the games before it, under a similar amount of pressure from the opposition. People haven't suddenly realised that he's quite good this season. Players can have bad games, and experience poor form. As long as he comes back from that (in a period where we went on to record fantastic results), what's the problem? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_NUFC Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Amazing how people can swear five sheets to the wind and call Pardew names but I get called out for calling him an unintelligent and talentless manager Anyways, we've done this debate to death. We have some very fickle, reactionary fans who think 2 wins doth a summer make, as Cantona would say, whereas those of us who can see through these retarded tactics and team selection can see a run of defeats in the not-too-distant future, in line with the very evident past that shows the same pattern. I hope, like everyone here, that my view is wrong, and we now kick on and finish 5th, and Pardew suddenly makes a mockery of us all when Shola start 'ripping up the league' and Obertan starts becoming Leo fucking Messi, but so far all I see is two positions wasted with those two on, while our most talented player rots on the bench. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Providing he re-enters the team in a position that he favours, I can see Ben Arfa's recent withdrawal having a positive effect on him. It's a bit of a cliche, but knowing that there's competition for places and no guaranteed starting berth, is usually helpful to players. I would like to say the same for Cisse as well, but I think he's lost a lot of interest. He certainly plays that way, anyway. I wouldn't be surprised to see quite a re-shuffle against Norwich, starting with Debuchy's suspension. That wouldn't be such a bad thing - I don't think there's any longevity to the system we've had set up in the previous two matches. Those were tactics very much centred on containing the opposition; not a terrible strategy (clearly) when the onus is on the other team. I hope we'll employ a more expansive and attacking set-up at home to Norwich, which will no doubt include Ben Arfa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Aye, everyone would rather HBA was playing every week and ripping up the league. But he wasn't doing that, so he's come out of the team for a while. isn't this the crux? the fact that he probably should be but is being 'prevented' from doing so by our shit manager, his terrible tactics and being left out of the team for gabriel obertan? that's my view on the HBA thing, players don't perform in isolation to what's going on around them, especially not flair players like HBA So, this mercurial talent, with a vast history of inconsistency, only ever plays badly because of his manager. How does he ever play well? well i've already addressed this haven't i? but you know that...his age, apparent focus, team ethic and of course the fact that there's a world cup coming suggest to me the lad had what it takes to succeed now where in his younger years he was maybe more of a little arsehole holding himself back i'll refer you to the hull game again....he's crowded out by 2-3 everytime he gets the ball, that's where your manager has to come in and make changes to either open up the space for him or use his being crowded out to open up the game for the team our manager did neither and rarely does He was shite against Hull, but he wasn't the only one. He'd been unplayable in the games before it, under a similar amount of pressure from the opposition. People haven't suddenly realised that he's quite good this season. Players can have bad games, and experience poor form. As long as he comes back from that (in a period where we went on to record fantastic results), what's the problem? liverpool he was deployed as some sort of fucking striker playing with his back to goal man that's not a loss in form nor is having to face up to an entire hull defence and not being able to beat them prior hull he'd ripped villa to shreds and was under nowhere near the same pressure he was vs hull and liverpool you seem to take his performances in total isolation from the team and the tactical approach that the manager employs for some reason, that doesn't make sense cue "i didn't say that, would never say that" type bollocks...you're saying it by implication in failing to link his "drop" in performance (right at the time he was in amazing form mind ) with anything that the other team or his own manager might do Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_NUFC Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Aye, everyone would rather HBA was playing every week and ripping up the league. But he wasn't doing that, so he's come out of the team for a while. isn't this the crux? the fact that he probably should be but is being 'prevented' from doing so by our shit manager, his terrible tactics and being left out of the team for gabriel obertan? that's my view on the HBA thing, players don't perform in isolation to what's going on around them, especially not flair players like HBA So, this mercurial talent, with a vast history of inconsistency, only ever plays badly because of his manager. How does he ever play well? well i've already addressed this haven't i? but you know that...his age, apparent focus, team ethic and of course the fact that there's a world cup coming suggest to me the lad had what it takes to succeed now where in his younger years he was maybe more of a little arsehole holding himself back i'll refer you to the hull game again....he's crowded out by 2-3 everytime he gets the ball, that's where your manager has to come in and make changes to either open up the space for him or use his being crowded out to open up the game for the team our manager did neither and rarely does He was shite against Hull, but he wasn't the only one. He'd been unplayable in the games before it, under a similar amount of pressure from the opposition. People haven't suddenly realised that he's quite good this season. Players can have bad games, and experience poor form. As long as he comes back from that (in a period where we went on to record fantastic results), what's the problem? liverpool he was deployed as some sort of fucking striker playing with his back to goal man that's not a loss in form nor is having to face up to an entire hull defence and not being able to beat them prior hull he'd ripped villa to shreds and was under nowhere near the same pressure he was vs hull and liverpool you seem to take his performances in total isolation from the team and the tactical approach that the manager employs for some reason, that doesn't make sense cue "i didn't say that, would never say that" type bollocks...you're saying it by implication in failing to link his "drop" in performance (right at the time he was in amazing form mind ) with anything that the other team or his own manager might do The people arguing he deserved to be benched after a few "poor" performances where he was used like a fucking towel used by an intergalactic hitchhiker (in every capacity imaginable) have very short memories where we've seen player after player retain his place playing absolute horse-shit under Pardew. Why is HBA held to a harsher scale in comparison to some of his craphead teammates? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I'll just point it out now to quote it in the future. The exact people who now brush problems like HBA not being in the team under the carpet , because we won the games in question, are the same people who brushed all of the problems in the 5th place season under the carpet because we were winning games then for the most part It's as if football is so simple to these people that if you win/ are winning everything is pretty much 100% right as rain. So we've won two very good games with a hard working, plucky 4-4-2 preforming exactly the same way as we did in the season where we finished 5th. Just like then when the football was clearly not sustainable medium/long term, it is not now. Shola Ameobi and Obertan getting minutes over HBA? Come on. If you can't see the problems with getting excited over these two wins after witnessing the last two seasons unfold, I feel for ya bro. If you do see the problems and are just hoping these issues will be addressed then fair enough, but at this point it's just hope because despite AP winning two admittedly, very tough games - the same problems that have always been there are still there. Ugh. Fucking sanctimonious drivel. 'Bro' in there, too. #legend Nothing to do with his post tbh. Why don't you try to discuss the very valid points he makes? Valid points? Of course there are problems, there are always problems (Pardew or not). But if you cant enjoy these two wins after witnessing the last two seasons unfold, I feel for ya bro. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 HBA doesn't have a divine right to start games in any case. Apart from his defensive shortcomings, he also makes wrong decisions from an attacking POV. But he's not played that badly either, for me he suffered as much due to the team showing nothing when we had possession as much as anything else. It's all about getting the balance right to make the best of a player like that, and Pardew is obviously more comfortable with players who can fit his more basic methods. Probably the best way to go for him, although it will only get us so far. EDIT: yeah basically what mrmojorisin said. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Valid points? Of course there are problems, there are always problems (Pardew or not). But if you cant enjoy these two wins after witnessing the last two seasons unfold, I feel for ya bro. what makes you think anyone didn't enjoy it? because we won do we have to pretend it was flawless? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Valid points? Of course there are problems, there are always problems (Pardew or not). But if you cant enjoy these two wins after witnessing the last two seasons unfold, I feel for ya bro. what makes you think anyone didn't enjoy it? because we won do we have to pretend it was flawless? No. Nobody has suggested they were flawless as far as I'm aware. I just struggle to see what benefit there is to dig into the minutia of even the good games to find evidence for arguments that have been done to death and have not evolved in the slightest. Yeah, we know, Pardew may come unstuck again. But this is nothing new, nobody has forgotten last season. All Spudil is doing is shouting from the rooftops "You fools! You may be having fun at the feast, but you'll all be fucked for food by February". Aye, cracking that Spuddy. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Soylent Green is people?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 No one is a fucking 'Pardite', nor are they claiming he is the man to take us forward. i don't think anyone is staunchly anti-pardew either, to the point of being stubborn about the man - spudil has made very valid points about the last 2 games tbh but they're just glossed over for some reason we're analysing 2 good results and comparing that with our previous performances under pardew, some people are ignoring the validity of the concerns (as they did when we were almost relegated) and choosing to shout it down as negativity you improve at anything by looking at where it is you can improve, not by saying "that was mint eh" and putting your fucking feet up :thup: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I'll just point it out now to quote it in the future. The exact people who now brush problems like HBA not being in the team under the carpet , because we won the games in question, are the same people who brushed all of the problems in the 5th place season under the carpet because we were winning games then for the most part It's as if football is so simple to these people that if you win/ are winning everything is pretty much 100% right as rain. So we've won two very good games with a hard working, plucky 4-4-2 preforming exactly the same way as we did in the season where we finished 5th. Just like then when the football was clearly not sustainable medium/long term, it is not now. Shola Ameobi and Obertan getting minutes over HBA? Come on. If you can't see the problems with getting excited over these two wins after witnessing the last two seasons unfold, I feel for ya bro. If you do see the problems and are just hoping these issues will be addressed then fair enough, but at this point it's just hope because despite AP winning two admittedly, very tough games - the same problems that have always been there are still there. Ugh. Fucking sanctimonious drivel. 'Bro' in there, too. #legend Wew, what a prick. Didn't even read the post properly, just went for his cool/funny/always right routine and away we go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 If you took Ian/Inochi/Brett away from the forum then I'd pay £20 a year to frequent it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Throw BottledDog in and you can have 25 quid. Few others hoyed in for 30 quid and SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 We all just do it to annoy you. It's all for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_NUFC Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I quite like the differing voices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Slippery Sam Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I quite like the differing voices. I hear voices. I also see the faces in the wallpaper. Pardew's still shit, mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Shola Ameobi and Obertan getting minutes over HBA? Come on. Especially when the logic doesn't make sense. Obertan was brought on over HBA to help protect the left side and it actually ended up weakening us. In that instance, there was literally no excuse for not bringing on Ben Arfa. Wasn't Obertan just brought on because he runs around a lot and threatens (sort of) on the break? I love HBA more than anyone but I don't think it really matters that Obertan was brought on in this specific situation. You know that it doesn't mean Pardew thinks he's better than Ben Arfa. There is no situation where Obertan would be the preferred option for me tbh. Attacking, defending, tracking back, running down the channel, retaining posession of the ball, counter attacking - HBA is the better option every time, I even said it in the match thread. Get HBA on, give him the ball and he keeps a hold of it - we'd have been under a hell of a lot less pressure compared to flooding the midfield and leaving Cisse/Remy up there alone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benwell Lad Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Please don't pay for Inochi to be removed from N-O. The number of intelligent, witty posters on here seems to have dropped significantly in the last few years and the debate seldom rises above the banal. We need more bright sparks and opposing views, not less. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 We all just do it to annoy you. It's all for you. Aye, every other fucker loves your glorious patter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Please don't pay for Inochi to be removed from N-O. The number of intelligent, witty posters on here seems to have dropped significantly in the last few years and the debate seldom rises above the banal. We need more bright sparks and opposing views, not less. Intelligent and witty, areet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 <a href="http://reactiongifs.com/?p=16544"><img src="http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Brenda-Meeks-Scared-Popcorn-Gif-In-Scary-Movie.gif"></a> Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I've had more intelligent and witty wanks, the bloke is a plank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_NUFC Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I'm sure there were Hammers fans saying the same about Tevez and Macherano, "not enough end product and can't defend, marra." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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