Guest tollemache Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 You're getting at a lack of ambition right? I understand that and again, we have a difference in opinion here perhaps because I'd be quite happy with a slow, Everton-like ascent overall, building towards being in contention for CL spots on a regular basis. I think that's just the way football is now, and if you demand an all-out effort to win trophies you might as well be demanding that the owner flip a coin for the future of the club. For our average league position to improve by a few in the next few years would be a decent achievement. Sad but true. Why would I take the 5 years? Because I think we'd be likely to be in a better position financially after 5 years of Ashley, and that, in the end, translates directly to success on the pitch. It's not ideal to have an owner who alienates fans, does daft things and hires his mates but I get the impression he will stop at nothing to make the club a commercially successful organisation and right now, after the last 10 - 15 years, that is the best thing that could possibly happen. Let him keep being a twat, just make sure that over the next few years our bank balance improves, our squad gets deeper, we deal well in the market and so on and so on, and then he can go to hell if he wants. And for fuck's sake keep hold of Graham Carr. Thanks for the answer, so eloquently put. But with all due respect I can't see the path you map out taking shape with Pardew and Kinnear in senior managerial positions at the club. Not just that, if you get a successful brand on the pitch, then the commercial aspect will always follow, but not so the case the other way round. I think we've got a fair squad and with a bit of depth added and a managerial upgrade, then there wouldn't be any reason why we couldn't be successful. Pardew... meh. Kinnear in and Carr out.... no. I agree the other appointments have been shaky, but I don't think any of them apart from maybe JFK will have a devastating long term impact. I was very nonplussed when Pardew became manager and his performance has been very average but I can still imagine that he might improve. The squad overperformed two seasons ago, underperformed last season... again, meh. It might perform averagely next year. I'm not indifferent to our form - I hate it when we play shit and lose, not least when I've just wasted a load of energy defending Ashley and co on here - but I accept that we'll have good seasons and bad seasons and I don't think that's all that relevant to the reasons I have for not necessarily wanting to get rid of Ashley. For me it really is 80% about, please can we have a club that has some money and a deep squad with some decent players in it, and not be a Freddie Shepherd nightmare. It's a shame Ashley is making such a tit of himself and everyone else but be careful what you wish for... I dunno. I'm very wary of coming over all pro-Ashley on here but to present a moderate point of view in the face of all the bile and hate towards him on here, you're always going to end up defending him. I wish we had a better chairman, a better manager and most certainly a better Director of Football, but I can at least see some of the positives with what we do have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 JFK will destroy all of the good work before the season starts. The cunt is the football equivalent of a fucking mass extinction event, which seems to fit perfectly with his Triassic views on football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 What has Ashley done well apart from employing a good scout and backing his judgement, and how do you explain him seemingly not seeing that as the main strength and thoroughly jeopardising it with an absolutely barking mad decision? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 there is being moderate and then there is a Neville Chamberlain level of apologism. Ashley's a cunt. He just hired a cunt to be his eyes and ears. Another cunt just walked, likely because the even bigger cunt just hired now looms over him. Under all of them is yet another useless cunt who is being completely undermined by all of these cunts above him. And in the end, we pay the fucking price for this Machiavellian cuntishness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 What has Ashley done well apart from employing a good scout and backing his judgement, and how do you explain him seemingly not seeing that as the main strength and thoroughly jeopardising it with an absolutely barking mad decision? It's not just about what he's done well - explore every possible revenue stream (albeit to a fault), employing a good scout and backing his judgment and refusing to bow to pressure to overspend, pay off the club debt (that's not a skill or anything, but not every chairman would've done it), it's the things he hasn't done badly like mortgage our future. He's prioritised making us into a viable business over just about everything else, which at this point in our history is good. How do I explain him not seeing Carr as the main strength etc etc etc....? I don't. As I've said a few times, I think it's a totally daft decision and the first move of Ashley's that I can't in any way defend. I agree, Carr is the crown jewel. I'm all about bank balance + transfer policy = you will do good, and Carr is key to that. I think it's barking mad to piss off Carr and I think it's completely insane to employ Kinnear. You seem to think I'm determined to defend Ashley no matter what, but I'm really not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 What has Ashley done well apart from employing a good scout and backing his judgement, and how do you explain him seemingly not seeing that as the main strength and thoroughly jeopardising it with an absolutely barking mad decision? It's not just about what he's done well - explore every possible revenue stream (albeit to a fault), employing a good scout and backing his judgment and refusing to bow to pressure to overspend, pay off the club debt (that's not a skill or anything, but not every chairman would've done it), it's the things he hasn't done badly like mortgage our future. He's prioritised making us into a viable business over just about everything else, which at this point in our history is good. How do I explain him not seeing Carr as the main strength etc etc etc....? I don't. As I've said a few times, I think it's a totally daft decision and the first move of Ashley's that I can't in any way defend. I agree, Carr is the crown jewel. I'm all about bank balance + transfer policy = you will do good, and Carr is key to that. I think it's barking mad to piss off Carr and I think it's completely insane to employ Kinnear. You seem to think I'm determined to defend Ashley no matter what, but it should be obvious that I'm not. Well it is just about what he's done well, since that's the question I asked. I'd argue that the only major thing he's done well is recognising he had a good scout and basing our transfer policy around that. That goes hand in hand with the financial stuff since we largely only spend what we bring in (at best) on good-value players from the Continent. There is no excuse for the steps backwards we've made in terms of other sources of revenue, such as commercial, matchday, etc. Regarding your first paragraph, it could well be argued that's all for his own benefit. He paid off the debt to begin with because he had the cash. He's started taking the money back, £11m last year. That will continue happening I'd imagine. I don't see what the obsession is with the financial stuff when it's seen us going backwards in many respects. There can be a happy medium you know, and I don't understand a football fan who wanks over spreadsheets or the idea that we could be as big as Everton. Regarding your last point, I do think you'll defend him (almost) no matter what, it doesn't matter if you're coming back on here with a more softly-softly, moderate tone, you're actually pretty much a militant Ashley supporter from everything I've read from you. I know not one person who's anywhere near as big a fan of his as you are. Top and bottom of it is that we haven't progressed as a football club and the last 5 years have been littered with humilation as an NUFC fan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Explored every possible revenue stream. He has vastly reduced our commercial revenue from the level Shepherd had it at (despite a colossal rise in overseas interest in the PL during the same period) and replaced 75% of the matchday advertising boards with free ads for his shitty company. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Mags Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 So is this cunt dead yet, or what? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 All comes down to this with tollemache at the end of the day: ... I think the club's financial recovery is the number 1 important thing by a long way. I attach more weight to that than anything else We all support a football team, he's here to support a balance sheet. You can't have a cogent footballing argument with someone like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 And our finances are nothing to shout about either so what exactly is Tollemaches point, I don't get it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 He paid off the debt to begin with because he had the cash. Just re: this point, he paid it off because he was forced to under the terms of the SJP mortgage agreement having not bothered doing due diligence (and as you say, is now cleaning it back out of the club coffers). Only a fucking cretin could argue that his incompetence is somehow evidence of his benevolence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 And our finances are nothing to shout about either so what exactly is Tollemaches point, I don't get it? We're not Pompey. That's it. That's enough for people like him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 He paid off the debt to begin with because he had the cash. Just re: this point, he paid it off because he was forced to under the terms of the SJP mortgage agreement having not bothered doing due diligence. Only a fucking cretin could argue that his incompetence is somehow evidence of his benevolence. Well aye, fair enough. Even worse then. But we posted a profit last year, let's all toss ourselves off into oblivion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 And our finances are nothing to shout about either so what exactly is Tollemaches point, I don't get it? He wants us to be Everton despite them being thoroughly skint and us having achieved far more in the Premier League than Everton ever will. Sorry Neil. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 This vitriol toward Ashley and his regime hasn't come out of a vacuum. Rewind back to the 2008 fiasco, then relegation. Then things seemed stabilized, and he jettisons Hughton and brings in utter cuntish mediocrity as his replacement. Then this. The conversations are the same, and they will continue to be. There's a pretty fucking clear cycle here. No matter what good he ever does, it has been undermined by these utterly bizarre decisions. Evidence suggests that it will continue, and we will never find real stability under the Ashley regime. He needs to go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 and I for one will not accept the 'better the devil you know' line of reasoning. That is fucking cowardice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 What has Ashley done well apart from employing a good scout and backing his judgement, and how do you explain him seemingly not seeing that as the main strength and thoroughly jeopardising it with an absolutely barking mad decision? It's not just about what he's done well - explore every possible revenue stream (albeit to a fault), employing a good scout and backing his judgment and refusing to bow to pressure to overspend, pay off the club debt (that's not a skill or anything, but not every chairman would've done it), it's the things he hasn't done badly like mortgage our future. He's prioritised making us into a viable business over just about everything else, which at this point in our history is good. How do I explain him not seeing Carr as the main strength etc etc etc....? I don't. As I've said a few times, I think it's a totally daft decision and the first move of Ashley's that I can't in any way defend. I agree, Carr is the crown jewel. I'm all about bank balance + transfer policy = you will do good, and Carr is key to that. I think it's barking mad to p*ss off Carr and I think it's completely insane to employ Kinnear. You seem to think I'm determined to defend Ashley no matter what, but it should be obvious that I'm not. Well it is just about what he's done well, since that's the question I asked. I'd argue that the only major thing he's done well is recognising he had a good scout and basing our transfer policy around that. That goes hand in hand with the financial stuff since we largely only spend what we bring in (at best) on good-value players from the Continent. There is no excuse for the steps backwards we've made in terms of other sources of revenue, such as commercial, matchday, etc. Regarding your first paragraph, it could well be argued that's all for his own benefit. He paid off the debt to begin with because he had the cash. He's started taking the money back, £11m last year. That will continue happening I'd imagine. I don't see what the obsession is with the financial stuff when it's seen us going backwards in many respects. There can be a happy medium you know, and I don't understand a football fan who wanks over spreadsheets or the idea that we could be as big as Everton. Regarding your last point, I do think you'll defend him (almost) no matter what, it doesn't matter if you're coming back on here with a more softly-softly, moderate tone, you're actually pretty much a militant Ashley supporter from everything I've read from you. I know not one person who's anywhere near as big a fan of his as you are. Top and bottom of it is that we haven't progressed as a football club and the last 5 years have been littered with humilation as an NUFC fan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovejoy Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Brought in to end a huge feud between Carr and pardew according to Simon bird in tomorrow's mirror. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzy Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 i dunno if it been pointed out, or i just think everyone is taken the p*ss out of newcastle. watching watchdog (tonights, recorded at 35 mins) matt starts a clips saying the following names.. david atinbruff (david atinbourough) , Gary LINEika .... got to be a dig? We actually are a laughing stock watch?v=LReS9bc_hrw 34 mins on that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Brought in to end a huge feud between Carr and pardew according to Simon bird in tomorrow's mirror. Well i would suppose Carr wouldn't be too happy with Pardew's use of the players he scouted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Brought in to end a huge feud between Carr and pardew according to Simon bird in tomorrow's mirror. Isn't this the worst guy in football to bring in to end a feud? It's like bringing in Mengele to sort out an argument on ethics between two doctors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Mags Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Brought in to end a huge feud between Carr and pardew according to Simon bird in tomorrow's mirror. Isn't this the worst guy in football to bring in to end a feud? It's like bringing in Mengele to sort out an argument on ethics between two doctors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempuki Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 JFK to solve a feud? Really? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Well it would just have been easy to get rid of Pardew. Don't do easy do we ?. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikri Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Brought in to end a huge feud between Carr and pardew according to Simon bird in tomorrow's mirror. He's going to back Pardew isn't he? He's going to look at all those weird foreign names that Carr keeps coming up with compared to Pardew's list of English cloggers and end up fucking Carr off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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