RIP Joe Kinnear (1946–2024)

[Unbelievable]

We always sell before we buy, always.  Right from when KK walked after the Milner fiasco.

 

But, in truth, most teams do, if you think about it, unless or until they have an up front surplus from somewhere, be that a loan from a bank or a dip into the owners pocket or saved up profit/cash.

 

Our owner isn't going to dip into his own pocket, therefore until we generate some surplus/cash up front (i.e.have cash in the bank) the only way to generate it is to sell to buy. Given we haven't bought for a year, we shouldn't have to do that any longer tbh. Unless of course he's taking back his loans asap.

 

They don't. And would a TV bonus be on of those things?

 

Course they do, if they don't have the cash from another source, and of course the TV cash is all in the pot (when it's received).

 

We "should" have a very healthy pot, come the summer, unless MA is taking back his loans pronto.

 

The sooner he takes back his loans the better.  At least that way we will know for certain that he has no intention of improving the playing squad when he continues to trouser the profits generated by the club after all debts have been cleared.

 

Yeah, that would make our plight a lot better..

[The College Dropout]

How much do we owe him? 100m? It's looking like the sooner he can remove that from the clubs debts the better we'll look to buyers.

Saying that we'll just be free promotion and another source of income.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

It's still quite a precarious position, relying on player sales to turn a profit. It's very unpredictable. I guess the new TV deal will make things a bit more comfortable.

[The College Dropout]

It's still quite a precarious position, relying on player sales to turn a profit. It's very unpredictable. I guess the new TV deal will make things a bit more comfortable.

Not really. We could easily get another £10m in commercial revenue if Ashley tried.

[Unbelievable]

How much do we owe him? 100m? It's looking like the sooner he can remove that from the clubs debts the better we'll look to buyers.

 

I don't understand this argument. His asking price will not become lower once he's paid off the debt, it would probably become higher because a) the club would be debt free and b) a profit making machine he wouldn't want to get rid off. Higher asking price <> looking better to potential buyers.

[The College Dropout]

 

How much do we owe him? 100m? It's looking like the sooner he can remove that from the clubs debts the better we'll look to buyers.

 

I don't understand this argument. His asking price will not become lower once he's paid off the debt, it would probably become higher because a) the club would be debt free and b) a profit making machine he wouldn't want to get rid off. Higher asking price <> looking better to potential buyers.

I remembered this soon after pressing the post button.

[Unbelievable]

It's still quite a precarious position, relying on player sales to turn a profit. It's very unpredictable. I guess the new TV deal will make things a bit more comfortable.

 

You make it sound like to make a profit should be our objective, like any other business'?

[TRon]

It's still quite a precarious position, relying on player sales to turn a profit. It's very unpredictable. I guess the new TV deal will make things a bit more comfortable.

 

You make it sound like to make a profit should be our objective, like any other business'?

 

In reality though, most of the new owners coming from abroad are probably looking for a profit one way or another. Abramovich is the exception, not the rule.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

It's still quite a precarious position, relying on player sales to turn a profit. It's very unpredictable. I guess the new TV deal will make things a bit more comfortable.

 

You make it sound like to make a profit should be our objective, like any other business'?

 

Nah, I've said before that any money we make should be invested. I meant it terms of attracting a buyer, will the financial situation ever be good enough to attract anyone except someone prepared to sink millions into the club every year?

[Unbelievable]

It's still quite a precarious position, relying on player sales to turn a profit. It's very unpredictable. I guess the new TV deal will make things a bit more comfortable.

 

You make it sound like to make a profit should be our objective, like any other business'?

 

Nah, I've said before that any money we make should be invested. I meant it terms of attracting a buyer, will the financial situation ever be good enough to attract anyone except someone prepared to sink millions into the club every year?

 

Fair enough. I happen to think ownership of a football club does not represent a good investment in financial terms, certainly if you take into account the criticism you are likely to receive because you hold stewardship of something many people hold dear. I can get behind an owner who makes it clear the club must live within its means, but who galvanizes the entire organisation to be the best it possibly can, even if that includes selling its best players when their stock is high, as long as (as you say) any money the club makes is reinvested and appointments (staff and players) show an ambition/desire to improve over time. The alternative, a sugar daddy willing to take on Chelsea and Manchester City is highly unlikely, so not really worth contemplating.

 

So, whilst Ashley's basic approach in itself isn't far off, his actual implementation of the plan is disastrous, and raises the question if the plan as communicated is actually the plan that is being worked towards.

 

The best we can hope for is he loses interest and decides to cut his losses, or he refinds his enthousiasm and starts practicing as he (or his directors) preaches. At this point, I won't be holding my breath until either scenario happens, sadly.

[Toonpack]

It's still quite a precarious position, relying on player sales to turn a profit. It's very unpredictable. I guess the new TV deal will make things a bit more comfortable.

 

You make it sound like to make a profit should be our objective, like any other business'?

 

Nah, I've said before that any money we make should be invested. I meant it terms of attracting a buyer, will the financial situation ever be good enough to attract anyone except someone prepared to sink millions into the club every year?

 

Fair enough. I happen to think ownership of a football club does not represent a good investment in financial terms, certainly if you take into account the criticism you are likely to receive because you hold stewardship of something many people hold dear. I can get behind an owner who makes it clear the club must live within its means, but who galvanizes the entire organisation to be the best it possibly can, even if that includes selling its best players when their stock is high, as long as (as you say) any money the club makes is reinvested and appointments (staff and players) show an ambition/desire to improve over time. The alternative, a sugar daddy willing to take on Chelsea and Manchester City is highly unlikely, so not really worth contemplating.

 

So, whilst Ashley's basic approach in itself isn't far off, his actual implementation of the plan is disastrous, and raises the question if the plan as communicated is actually the plan that is being worked towards.

 

The best we can hope for is he loses interest and decides to cut his losses, or he refinds his enthousiasm and starts practicing as he (or his directors) preaches. At this point, I won't be holding my breath until either scenario happens, sadly.

 

Spot on

[AyeDubbleYoo]

It's still quite a precarious position, relying on player sales to turn a profit. It's very unpredictable. I guess the new TV deal will make things a bit more comfortable.

 

You make it sound like to make a profit should be our objective, like any other business'?

 

Nah, I've said before that any money we make should be invested. I meant it terms of attracting a buyer, will the financial situation ever be good enough to attract anyone except someone prepared to sink millions into the club every year?

 

Fair enough. I happen to think ownership of a football club does not represent a good investment in financial terms, certainly if you take into account the criticism you are likely to receive because you hold stewardship of something many people hold dear. I can get behind an owner who makes it clear the club must live within its means, but who galvanizes the entire organisation to be the best it possibly can, even if that includes selling its best players when their stock is high, as long as (as you say) any money the club makes is reinvested and appointments (staff and players) show an ambition/desire to improve over time. The alternative, a sugar daddy willing to take on Chelsea and Manchester City is highly unlikely, so not really worth contemplating.

 

So, whilst Ashley's basic approach in itself isn't far off, his actual implementation of the plan is disastrous, and raises the question if the plan as communicated is actually the plan that is being worked towards.

 

The best we can hope for is he loses interest and decides to cut his losses, or he refinds his enthousiasm and starts practicing as he (or his directors) preaches. At this point, I won't be holding my breath until either scenario happens, sadly.

 

Good post, nothing to disagree with there. 

[The College Dropout]

John Henry's in L'pool for the moolah. But he understands he must get them into the CL and build a new stadium to maximise their value and profitibality.

 

Ashley's looked at us and said... avoid relegation and we'll get great advertising and a little profitable machine going. We can even go to Scotland and flog some more Donnay.

[Guest reefatoon]

Still sitting on the fence.

[Ronaldo]

A lot of good work.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Quietly dignified, that's Pards for you.

[Guest reefatoon]

Or just a terrified little doormouse, scared to say boo to a goose.

[jdckelly]

Gave away the game a bit saying it was a board decision instead of him choosing to go

[Guest reefatoon]

Gave away the game a bit saying it was a board decision instead of him choosing to go

 

that's Pards, always passing the blame.

[Yorkie]

Quietly dignified, that's Pards for you.

 

that's Pards, always passing the blame.

 

What a fucking nightmare, man. I'm okay with the odd thing polarising opinion but it's infuriating when it's every single little thing. This isn't an obvious example but it is an example. No one has a fucking clue what's going on; the only thing people know for certain is that something isn't right. It isn't fair at all. What a fucking pisstake. I hate the bastards.

 

If they'd just release a fucking explanation every now and again. Give us something to go on instead of driving us all mad with theories, speculation and cynicism.

 

Has this club ever had worse PR in its existence?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I was joking FWIW.

[Yorkie]

It's still quite a precarious position, relying on player sales to turn a profit. It's very unpredictable. I guess the new TV deal will make things a bit more comfortable.

 

You make it sound like to make a profit should be our objective, like any other business'?

 

Nah, I've said before that any money we make should be invested. I meant it terms of attracting a buyer, will the financial situation ever be good enough to attract anyone except someone prepared to sink millions into the club every year?

 

Fair enough. I happen to think ownership of a football club does not represent a good investment in financial terms, certainly if you take into account the criticism you are likely to receive because you hold stewardship of something many people hold dear. I can get behind an owner who makes it clear the club must live within its means, but who galvanizes the entire organisation to be the best it possibly can, even if that includes selling its best players when their stock is high, as long as (as you say) any money the club makes is reinvested and appointments (staff and players) show an ambition/desire to improve over time. The alternative, a sugar daddy willing to take on Chelsea and Manchester City is highly unlikely, so not really worth contemplating.

 

So, whilst Ashley's basic approach in itself isn't far off, his actual implementation of the plan is disastrous, and raises the question if the plan as communicated is actually the plan that is being worked towards.

 

The best we can hope for is he loses interest and decides to cut his losses, or he refinds his enthousiasm and starts practicing as he (or his directors) preaches. At this point, I won't be holding my breath until either scenario happens, sadly.

 

That's a brilliant post, btw. Sums up the whole situation perfectly, particularly the last point. You've identified the two extremes there (ie; either make a game of it or sell it)... Ashley's currently in the middle-ground where he doesn't really give a shit either way, providing the money's coming in and the SD marketing is still on the go.

 

All which leaves the entire club in limbo. Our league position matches their level of ambition.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Aye, best post for a while.

[Yorkie]

I was joking FWIW.

 

Aye, I thought you might have been, it wasn't a great example by me. But the point stands either way - every single little thing is scrutinised and polarised among the support because the PR is so utterly terrible. It's an absolute insult that Kinnear has come and gone without a solid explanation as to what his actual role at the club was (never mind the fact he was ever here in the first place). We've only ever received wishy-washy soundbites from Pardew, whereby he didn't seem to have a certified idea himself.

 

The PR is just a joke.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I was joking FWIW.

 

Aye, I thought you might have been, it wasn't a great example by me. But the point stands either way - every single little thing is scrutinised and polarised among the support because the PR is so utterly terrible. It's an absolute insult that Kinnear has come and gone without a solid explanation as to what his actual role at the club was. We've only ever received wishy-washy soundbites from Pardew, whereby he didn't seem to have a certified idea himself.

 

The PR is just a joke.

 

Yeah totally agree, our entire PR and communications setup is appalling. The website is gash, the box office system is awful, they never comment on anything that matters, it's a farce really. I guess partly the problem when one man controls everything, and maybe also because they don't employ anyone competent to set up a proper department. Even if they just hired an agency it would be much better.