The College Dropout Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Also there's more to effectiveness than just goals and assists. Otherwise Zidane and Iniesta were never effective. Hazard is more gifted than Bale, that is quite clear. He does multiple things which impact a game which makes those around him better and makes him more dangerous. You don't see teams triple team Bale like PSG did Hazard, he still has to prove it on the biggest stage but he clearly has all the tools required to be much better. This debate reminds me of the Neymar and Bale debate from a couple of years ago, I always believed in Neymar's superior ability and eventually I believe Hazard will clearly be considered the better player. Zidane & Iniesta are playmakers - that's a different kettle. Hazard is basically an inside forward as is Bale. Neither control the tempo of a game or make opposition attackers ineffective. Hazard draws more fouls, that's about it. Hazard is more gifted? How? He's a better dribbler and has more tricks. Bale is more physically gifted and has more tools in his attacking arsenal. He's a threat in the air and uses his weaker foot more. Scores more goals from distance. The point about tripling up is swings and roundabouts. Hazard benefits just as much as he suffers from being Chelsea's main man. Bale's playing at a bigger club, with more pressure and has to cede the limelight. As the main man at Spurs Bale won multiple matches by himself. Left foot, right foot, tap-ins, from range. 22 league goals, no penalties. I've never seen Hazard reach that level of dominance. Hazard has never been as decisive as Bale was in big matches lasts season. The statistics for Bale are important because he also does it at the very highest level. If Crouch scored against top opposition for England you wouldn't use that as a comparison although it's silly enough as it is. Hazard's also scored a vast majority of his goals & assists at home in games Chelsea would win anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Interesting point, who is the best striker with the worst goalscoring record? Suarez. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 It's all irrelevant, Reus and Greizmann are better players than both in my opinion. That's not to say Hazard and Bale aren't class mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Interesting point, who is the best striker with the worst goalscoring record? From recent times - Drogba would be up there. 09-10 was probably the only season where he went mental for goals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Interesting point, who is the best striker with the worst goalscoring record? From recent times - Drogba would be up there. 09-10 was probably the only season where he went mental for goals. Any target player that can link up play basically. Benzema is another one. Doesn't score a ridiculous amounts of goals, but despite not being a targetman in the traditional sense is a fucking fantastic link-up player. Back in the days I always thought Fernando Morientes was the shit. Guy was so technically intelligent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 NVM Benzema has scored far more than I thought Guess Ronaldo overshadows that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 How the hell is Hazard a forward, he's a midfielder a playmaker just like Ribery is. In fact that's who he reminds me of the most although he has potential to be better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 NVM Benzema has scored far more than I thought Guess Ronaldo overshadows that. He's going to be top 10 CL scorer all time soon, doesn't get enough credit IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 NVM Benzema has scored far more than I thought Guess Ronaldo overshadows that. He's going to be top 10 CL scorer all time soon, doesn't get enough credit IMO. At least not from me in terms of scoring apparently Always seen him as a very very good footballer on his day, but never actually realized he scores this much Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 CRonaldo owes a lot of his success at Real to Benzema. Excellent footballer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 CRonaldo owes a lot of his success at Real to Benzema. Excellent footballer. That's true to a point and vice versa quite frankly. Ronaldo and Bale both need to be fed to a certain extent and Benzema is fantastic are creating chances for them. It's why Higuain was moved out, because he simply cannot create for those around him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 CRonaldo owes a lot of his success at Real to Benzema. Excellent footballer. That's true to a point and vice versa quite frankly. Ronaldo and Bale both need to be fed to a certain extent and Benzema is fantastic are creating chances for them. It's why Higuain was moved out, because he simply cannot create for those around him. No doubt, but CRonaldo's the one who routinely gets the plaudits (for good reason, obviously). It's a two-way street that's often not given enough respect, imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 That's the way it is. Robben gets most of the credit for Bayern, Messi for Barca and so on. Is it right ? Probably not but that's never going to change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 No way is Hazard a playmaker. Benzema's been class. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 That's the way it is. Robben gets most of the credit for Bayern, Messi for Barca and so on. Is it right ? Probably not but that's never going to change. aye thanks for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Who isn't getting the shine they deserve? Pretty much all the other players in those teams are World Cup winners. Benzema's a top player but obviously Cronaldo is the man. BUt it's a team sport and they need each other. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 He creates everything for that team, he's no less of a playmaker than Iniesta is (not saying he's better mind but the things he does are what constitutes a playmaker.) He creates plays and dictates how the team plays in terms of tempo, your idea of playmaking is clearly quite different to mine because Hazard is clearly playmaking for that team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 That's the way it is. Robben gets most of the credit for Bayern, Messi for Barca and so on. Is it right ? Probably not but that's never going to change. aye thanks for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 He creates everything for that team, he's no less of a playmaker than Iniesta is (not saying he's better mind but the things he does are what constitutes a playmaker.) He creates plays and dictates how the team plays in terms of tempo, your idea of playmaking is clearly quite different to mine because Hazard is clearly playmaking for that team. TBF I see Cesc as the playmaker of that team. Playmaker for me is the one that dictates the tempo of games and creates chances. Hazard does create and all, but he doesn't really dictate the tempo of the game like Messi does when he plays on the wings. It's harder for a winger to be a playmaker in MY way of seeing it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TruToon94 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Interesting point, who is the best striker with the worst goalscoring record? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collage Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Dennis Bergkamp? Though arguably not really a striker. EDIT: Same with Del Piero. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Interesting point, who is the best striker with the worst goalscoring record? Emile Heskey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 More seriously, I was about to name Kluivert but he's almost 1 in 2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 He creates everything for that team, he's no less of a playmaker than Iniesta is (not saying he's better mind but the things he does are what constitutes a playmaker.) He creates plays and dictates how the team plays in terms of tempo, your idea of playmaking is clearly quite different to mine because Hazard is clearly playmaking for that team. TBF I see Cesc as the playmaker of that team. Playmaker for me is the one that dictates the tempo of games and creates chances. Hazard does create and all, but he doesn't really dictate the tempo of the game like Messi does when he plays on the wings. It's harder for a winger to be a playmaker in MY way of seeing it. Iniesta has also played a significant portion of his career as a central player. Likewise David Silva who is also a playmaker. Fabregas and De Bruyne all the playmakers in the sides Hazard plays for. In their absence Hazard wouldn't take their roles either. I'm with Felip, a Playmaker sets the tempo and controls the game. Verratti in the week. Cesc often in the league. Silva drifting from wide and just dominating the game. Hazard's remit in Mourinho's team is essentially inbetween ADM/ & Cronaldo. Neither as playmakers. He reserved that Ozil & Alonso. Unpopular opinion: It's very hard to have Cesc Fabregas as he is as an integral part of a top, top team. I think Mou's counter attacking approach suits him best. He's best as #10 but lacks the feet to create space against top quality opposition. And he lacks positional sense to do it as a deeper midfielder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenham Mag Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Interesting point, who is the best striker with the worst goalscoring record? For us at the moment, Perez. Historically Bellamy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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